2018 Playoffs Thread

[Covert Rain]

HORSE-CRAP.

It was called a charge on the floor. The announcers thought it was a charge on the floor. Instant replaying that crap and then CHANGING a foul call is beyond the pale.

You not acknowledging the ABSOLUTE GIFT you got tonight is a freaking joke.

That clearly was a block to me. Zero doubt. He was not set and his feet never stopped sliding.

You have to be set without moving.

It’s amazing how many of us can see the same play differently.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That clearly was a block to me. Zero doubt. He was not set and his feet never stopped sliding.

You have to be set without moving.

It’s amazing how many of us can see the same play differently.

I agree it was a block but Lebron wasn't even close to the restricted area so the justification for review was questionable at best. Still, I think too much is being made of it as the final decision ended up being the call that should have been made initially.

 

[Hoop Head]

I just caught the end of the game again being replayed on ESPN and that was a blocking foul on Lebron but he wasn't in the restricted area, not even close. What hurt him and the reason they used the restricted area excuse to watch the replay is because he slid quite a bit. How he ended up laying on the floor he was well within the restricted area, sliding back 2-3 feet. So I could see in the speed of the game how the refs got it wrong. Lebron over exaggerating the contact and flying back cost him. That play didn't decide the game though, either way. Plenty of time left and a lot of other plays took place.

That George Hill FT miss was huge. I would imagine he doesn't want to end up at the FT line at the end of any more games this year though. JR Smith's mental mishap was bad also. Not sure what he was thinking. The Cavs will need them both to put it behind them and play all out in their next game. If they can leave Oakland with the series tied that would be big. If they hope to challenge them at all they need to steal the next game. Going down 2-0 will be too much unless there is an injury or suspension.

 

[Phrazbit]

JR says he thought they'd call a timeout... if that is the case then why didn't he call one as soon as he controlled the ball... others have said he thought they were ahead... then why is JR saying he thought they'd call a timeout?

I firmly believe he panicked so bad that he was about to heave a half court shot at the wrong basket... you look at the way he ran, the direction he looked and the confusion when LeBron got his attention and he STILL didn't call a timeout, instead he saw LeBron pointing the other way and threw a worthless pass as time expired.

He got that rebound, his brain shattered and he reacted on the instinct of collecting a defensive rebound in a tie game and was a half second from launching the most laughable prayer in NBA history before LeBron got his attention.

 

[Hoop Head]

I was curious about that play at the end of the game. Sports Center went over it multiple times and said that Lebron was trying to call a timeout, or get JR Smith's attention to call a timeout. It looked like James was yelling that at the midcourt ref also while JR was dribbling the ball towards midcourt. Is it only the ball handler that can call for time at that stage in the game? I'm not sure what the rule is. I know coaches can call timeouts also but I don't think they can with 2 minutes left during a live ball situation but teammates are different. I could be wrong when it comes to when coaches can call them. Does anyone know the rules for calling a timeout at the end of games like that?



Another interesting note, this is Lebron's 9th NBA Finals appearance, and in game 1's he's only 1-8 all time. He has 3 titles in the 8 previous finals but has only won game 1 just 1 time. That was in 2011 when the Heat beat the Mavericks. After seeing that stat, I won't count them out entirely but a lot depends on how JR Smith and George Hill respond in game 2. They need to play really well and not let their late game mistakes carry over.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I swear to God if @Russ Smith or @LoyaltyisaCurse EVER complain about the freaking refs again, you should be BANNED from the site.

That charge switched to a block call was literally the WORST BS CALL I'VE EVER SEEN.

What a freaking joke.

Yeah no kidding. These two guys sat here and had the nerve to complain about officiating when the whole game was completely one sided on the calls. It was exactly that, a gift.

Then theres a discussion about Lebron James traveling all the time? Cmon its called when it affects the game. Give me a break. Why arent we talking about Steph Curry literally palming/carrying the ball every time he touches it?! This crap is petty at best give me a break.
51-8-8. Overshadowed by a missed free throw and JR brain fart. The fact of the matter is it should have never gotten to that point. This was a robbery. Period.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't understand the complaining about the block/ charge. You could see the two refs looking at each other initially, with the third one coming in and talking. Mauer was going to call a block, but changed to charge after looking at Brothers. The reviewed it, and made the right call. Not to mention that the other Cav (I think it was Green) clearly pushed KD before the contact with LeBron.

 

[Russ Smith]

The rule is to review if a player is in the restricted area and they are allowed to view the play in its entirety, including charge/no charge and make the determination, which correctly ruled it was a blocking foul.

I don't think the reversal itself is controversial. I think controversial part is whether or not he was close enough to the R.A. to warrant the review.

I hate that rule, but then I've been complaining ever since the restricted area went in. It's at a point where if the foot is outside, they always call it a charge. The charge block rule is still there the player does have to get there first on defense but now they call charges all the time just because he's outside the circle even if eh's not really there. But I don't like being able to review anything else but that.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I don't understand the complaining about the block/ charge. You could see the two refs looking at each other initially, with the third one coming in and talking. Mauer was going to call a block, but changed to charge after looking at Brothers. The reviewed it, and made the right call. Not to mention that the other Cav (I think it was Green) clearly pushed KD before the contact with LeBron.

Yea your wrong. That wasnt the only call that cost them the game though. But he was not sliding. his left foot was planted which establishes defensive position. His right foot moved as he braced for impact. Watch it again. Thats what the ex official in the NBA replay room even said. But even thats beside the point that it should never have even been reviewed, he was clearly not in the restricted area. That would never have happened to MJ

 

[Russ Smith]

He's had a lot of traveling calls against him the past few years. Seriously. At least one out of every 30 travels earns him a whistle. Of course that works out to be about one per game. I've never seen anyone travel as flagrantly as he does. Moses Malone, Hakeem, Artis Gilmore have nothing on James when it comes to traveling.

They don't call walks in general but yes his running start on inbounds is comical. And last night on that one long 3 he made he picked up his dribble and carried the ball for 4 steps before he stopped and shot it. You could see Durant mouthing to the ref "he walked".

But last night was brutal, all the calls in the OT went to the Warriors and most in the 4th did too, very bad

 

[Russ Smith]

it was a charge, not a block. Lebron had his feet set but moved his body a bit in anticipation of the contact. if what i saw is a block the rule is too hard on the defense. it's enough that they added the "restricted area" in favor of the offense

it's a shame. the Cavs worked hard for a win on the warriors home court and earned it

his right foot was still moving that's why the refs said they changed it to a block on review. You can debate whether he was still in front enough to be a charge or not but once they make the call it should be over.The problem is there's just no way IMO that they should be allowed to overturn that call. I didn't like the call live but that's basketball charge/block is bang bang you live with it. But allowing them to overrule that is just wrong, they need to change that rule. I honestly had no idea they were allowed to do that and I think that rule needs to be changed.

 

[Russ Smith]

That clearly was a block to me. Zero doubt. He was not set and his feet never stopped sliding.

You have to be set without moving.

It’s amazing how many of us can see the same play differently.

That confused me because the ref expert pointed out as did Van Gundy you CAN be moving, but IMO that's normally the defender is already in front but backing up and the offensive player still causes the contact. That wasn't the case, LeBron was moving left, his left foot was there but the upper body was still moving to the left and the right foot wasn't even on the floor when the contact happened which is why on replay they overturned it. But there's no way i hell it should ever have been replayed.

The NBA looks very bad on that one should have been Cleveland ball up 2 and they likely win the game.

 

[HeHasRosen]

his right foot was still moving that's why the refs said they changed it to a block on review. You can debate whether he was still in front enough to be a charge or not but once they make the call it should be over.The problem is there's just no way IMO that they should be allowed to overturn that call. I didn't like the call live but that's basketball charge/block is bang bang you live with it. But allowing them to overrule that is just wrong, they need to change that rule. I honestly had no idea they were allowed to do that and I think that rule needs to be changed.

I dont disagree with this. To me there was not enough evidence to overturn the call. Its a bang bang play it has to be left alone

 

[Russ Smith]

JR says he thought they'd call a timeout... if that is the case then why didn't he call one as soon as he controlled the ball... others have said he thought they were ahead... then why is JR saying he thought they'd call a timeout?

I firmly believe he panicked so bad that he was about to heave a half court shot at the wrong basket... you look at the way he ran, the direction he looked and the confusion when LeBron got his attention and he STILL didn't call a timeout, instead he saw LeBron pointing the other way and threw a worthless pass as time expired.

He got that rebound, his brain shattered and he reacted on the instinct of collecting a defensive rebound in a tie game and was a half second from launching the most laughable prayer in NBA history before LeBron got his attention.

Adonal Foyle said on the local postgame they heard Smith tell LeBron "I thought we were ahead" But I agree with you it looked like he was going for the wrong basket

 

[Russ Smith]

I dont disagree with this. To me there was not enough evidence to overturn the call. Its a bang bang play it has to be left alone

There wasn't enough evidence to REVIEW the call, once they did I fully expected it to be a block because LeBron's upper body and right foot were still moving to the left. But it should never have been reviewed. Bad rule has to be changed

 

[SirStefan32]

Yea your wrong. That wasnt the only call that cost them the game though. But he was not sliding. his left foot was planted which establishes defensive position. His right foot moved as he braced for impact. Watch it again. Thats what the ex official in the NBA replay room even said. But even thats beside the point that it should never have even been reviewed, he was clearly not in the restricted area. That would never have happened to MJ

First off, it's "You're", not "your."
That said, his right foot was not even on the ground, and his body was moving left. It was a blocking foul.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Traveling is the most basic call in basketball. It IS the game. If you do not call traveling it is not really basketball anymore.

The idea of only calling it when it affects the game is preposterous. The call itself is INTENDED to affect the game. Traveling is a turnover. That is an effect.

 

[leclerc]

Then theres a discussion about Lebron James traveling all the time? Cmon its called when it affects the game. Give me a break. Why arent we talking about Steph Curry literally palming/carrying the ball every time he touches it?! This crap is petty at best give me a break.

They should call basic things like this closer from the start of next year.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah no kidding. These two guys sat here and had the nerve to complain about officiating when the whole game was completely one sided on the calls. It was exactly that, a gift.

Then theres a discussion about Lebron James traveling all the time? Cmon its called when it affects the game. Give me a break. Why arent we talking about Steph Curry literally palming/carrying the ball every time he touches it?! This crap is petty at best give me a break.
51-8-8. Overshadowed by a missed free throw and JR brain fart. The fact of the matter is it should have never gotten to that point. This was a robbery. Period.

The Warriors got the calls last night and it's why they won, fully agree.

The call the walk when it affects the game is just BS IMO. You can't take an inbounds pass and start jogging upcourt for 5 steps without dribbling, that impacts the game no matter where it is. he's not the only guy who does that, Westbrook does it all the time. And yes Curry carries the ball I complained about that in the last series that him, Paul and Harden are constantly picking the ball up, turning it over and then starting the dribble again. If Im reading teh chart right that was posted last night harden got called for travelling only 3 times all season, that's stunning considering how much he walks.

I think the Euro step is partly to blame, once the NBA decided the Euro step was legal, it led to tons of modified Euro steps that are blatantly walks but refs allow. they need to clean all that up IMO but they want scoring so they won't.

And I still say LeBron is committing a lane violation on almost every FT he shoots, he falls forward and the foot touches long before the shot gets there, you could see Kerr pointing it out several times last night I fully expect they're going to call one and then it's going to be a big controversy

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I was curious about that play at the end of the game. Sports Center went over it multiple times and said that Lebron was trying to call a timeout, or get JR Smith's attention to call a timeout. It looked like James was yelling that at the midcourt ref also while JR was dribbling the ball towards midcourt. Is it only the ball handler that can call for time at that stage in the game? I'm not sure what the rule is. I know coaches can call timeouts also but I don't think they can with 2 minutes left during a live ball situation but teammates are different. I could be wrong when it comes to when coaches can call them. Does anyone know the rules for calling a timeout at the end of games like that?



Another interesting note, this is Lebron's 9th NBA Finals appearance, and in game 1's he's only 1-8 all time. He has 3 titles in the 8 previous finals but has only won game 1 just 1 time. That was in 2011 when the Heat beat the Mavericks. After seeing that stat, I won't count them out entirely but a lot depends on how JR Smith and George Hill respond in game 2. They need to play really well and not let their late game mistakes carry over.

NBA rule states any player on the court may call a timeout.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

@cheesebeef if you like the Warriors it's a block, if you don't, it's a charge. Even live I screamed at TV stating,"HIS FEET WERE MOVING!!!"

I already stated I can't believe they reviewed the play because he was not less than two feet from the R.A.

They got the need to review wrong but got the call right. I'm not justifying it, but I am glad it happened because it prevented Cleveland the opportunity from possibly stretch the game out with less time for Warriors (nobody knows what would've happened).

That's Sports and thus controversy is great for sports talk radio, ESPN and for Game 2 ratings...just what the WWNBA wants.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Cleveland was still in position to win the Gabe and they choked.

 

[Russ Smith]

Mentioned it last night the NBA better not suspend Tristan Thompson for the next game or it's going to be a complete joke. They're saying that the ref called a flagrant on him because he said something threatening to Livingston when he fouled him but that's not the rule, it's supposed to be extreme contact or whatever. I get it, Thompson and LeBron were mad tje Warriors took shots, the Warriors had to shoot to avoid a clock violation. So maybe TT said something as he fouled Livingston but that doesn't make it a flagrant foul. Seemed like a horrible call and if they now suspend him, that will be totally wrong.

I still think Draymond should have gotten a 2nd T when he started taunting LeBron last night.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Traveling is the most basic call in basketball. It IS the game. If you do not call traveling it is not really basketball anymore.

The idea of only calling it when it affects the game is preposterous. The call itself is INTENDED to affect the game. Traveling is a turnover. That is an effect.

Ok well take it up with NBA not me. I dont agree with it either buts it been that way for a while. Half the league does it!

Why aren't you talking about carrying the ball? Thats done much more than traveling? That affects the game more imo.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ok well take it up with NBA not me. I dont agree with it either buts it been that way for a while. Half the league does it!

Why aren't you talking about carrying the ball? Thats done much more than traveling? That affects the game more imo.

we were all complaining about it in the Rockets series. I've been complaining about palming for years. But you can't defend traveling by saying half the league does it and then complaing about carrying, same deal. They need to start calling both, and the moving screens and holding. and the using your off hand to knock the defender back while dribbling which happens constantly now too.

There's way too much that's how they call it allowed. It's like baseball where the strike zones had gotten ridiculous and people defended it as part of the game. The technology was too good it was too easy to show that balls a foot outside were being called strikes, and they eventually clamped down on umps who were doing that. They need to do it in basketball too IMO.