2018 Playoffs Thread

[HeHasRosen]

we were all complaining about it in the Rockets series. I've been complaining about palming for years. But you can't defend traveling by saying half the league does it and then complaing about carrying, same deal. They need to start calling both, and the moving screens and holding. and the using your off hand to knock the defender back while dribbling which happens constantly now too.

There's way too much that's how they call it allowed. It's like baseball where the strike zones had gotten ridiculous and people defended it as part of the game. The technology was too good it was too easy to show that balls a foot outside were being called strikes, and they eventually clamped down on umps who were doing that. They need to do it in basketball too IMO.

I agree with you. Its not going to change though unfortunately. Just seems to get more complaints around here if Lebron does it. Thats all im saying

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just watched the charge/block for the first time. There’s just no way that’s a charge. He was still mudslide and actively leaning into Durant’s drive. That’s a block all day every day. And I even get why they reviewed it - Lebron came from the baseline to try to get there (late) and in so doing had to cross part of the restricted area. In real-time it wasn’t an easy call. But they made the right call.

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree with you. Its not going to change though unfortunately. Just seems to get more complaints around here if Lebron does it. Thats all im saying

IMO it's because he walks more than most players. harden does too, that unstoppable step back for example, part of why it's unstoppable is he often walks when doing it. Part of why he gets fouled shooting 3's so often is the refs allow him to take an extra step, which is often sideways to get into the path of the defender so he fouls him.

leBron was unreal last night, some of those contested finishes were stunning. He got the famous MJ double pump and the Worthy bump and finish, in the same game!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ok well take it up with NBA not me. I dont agree with it either buts it been that way for a while. Half the league does it!

Why aren't you talking about carrying the ball? Thats done much more than traveling? That affects the game more imo.

Palming is an issue too. Its a little more of a judgement call than traveling, although in the NBA its blatant.

 

[Russ Smith]

Stephen A all over Durant for another shrinking violet shooting fadeaways game. Jalen rose wants the rule changed and also said Durant should have passed to Draymond who had a dunk on that play.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

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[Russ Smith]

Just watched the charge/block for the first time. There’s just no way that’s a charge. He was still mudslide and actively leaning into Durant’s drive. That’s a block all day every day. And I even get why they reviewed it - Lebron came from the baseline to try to get there (late) and in so doing had to cross part of the restricted area. In real-time it wasn’t an easy call. But they made the right call.

They read the exact rule on ESPN and Jay Williams is insisting the NBA rule is different than college, you don't have to be "set" just in the path and he thinks LeBron is in the path, Greenie agreed. Then Jalen Rose said live it was a charge, if you watch the replay it looks like a block but they should have never replayed it, and he thinks the rule WILL be changed. Greenie is insistent per the NBA rule, it's a charge.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Stephen A all over Durant for another shrinking violet shooting fadeaways game. Jalen rose wants the rule changed and also said Durant should have passed to Draymond who had a dunk on that play.

They are 100% correct. KD has become more selfish this playoffs than I ever imagined.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Mentioned it last night the NBA better not suspend Tristan Thompson for the next game or it's going to be a complete joke. They're saying that the ref called a flagrant on him because he said something threatening to Livingston when he fouled him but that's not the rule, it's supposed to be extreme contact or whatever. I get it, Thompson and LeBron were mad tje Warriors took shots, the Warriors had to shoot to avoid a clock violation. So maybe TT said something as he fouled Livingston but that doesn't make it a flagrant foul. Seemed like a horrible call and if they now suspend him, that will be totally wrong.

I still think Draymond should have gotten a 2nd T when he started taunting LeBron last night.

I don't see him getting suspended if they didn't suspend JR Smith for that play against Horford in the ECF.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They read the exact rule on ESPN and Jay Williams is insisting the NBA rule is different than college, you don't have to be "set" just in the path and he thinks LeBron is in the path, Greenie agreed. Then Jalen Rose said live it was a charge, if you watch the replay it looks like a block but they should have never replayed it, and he thinks the rule WILL be changed. Greenie is insistent per the NBA rule, it's a charge.

If you’re allowed to be moving as much as Lebron was moving there’s really no way to distinguish between a charge and a block anymore.

 

[Russ Smith]

If you’re allowed to be moving as much as Lebron was moving there’s really no way to distinguish between a charge and a block anymore.

Yeah it's really semantics. The rule they showed said "established and in the path." I think most of us take established to mean set, not in front of him but still moving sideways. But if you take it as established does NOT mean set, then I guess it's a charge

Greenie just defended Schwartz asking LeBron that question in the post game over and over, totally disagree, he was baiting LeBron and I thought LeBron walking off was perfect

 

[HeHasRosen]

If you’re allowed to be moving as much as Lebron was moving there’s really no way to distinguish between a charge and a block anymore.

The point im trying to make is its so close it has to be left as called. How they overturn it is beyond me. Any other superstar gets that call everytime. I don't get it

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah it's really semantics. The rule they showed said "established and in the path." I think most of us take established to mean set, not in front of him but still moving sideways. But if you take it as established does NOT mean set, then I guess it's a charge

Greenie just defended Schwartz asking LeBron that question in the post game over and over, totally disagree, he was baiting LeBron and I thought LeBron walking off was perfect

I don't think it is semantics. I heard another discussion this morning with an ex-ref that said they got the call right. The rule states:

Block-Charge: An on-ball, block-charge situation occurs when contact is made between an offensive player (who is moving in a particular direction or trying to change directions) and defensive player. The defender is permitted to establish his legal guarding position in the path of the dribbler regardless of his speed and distance. To get into a legal position, the defender needs to establish himself in the path of the offensive player before contact is made, thus “beating him to the spot,” and before he starts his upward shooting motion.

Clearly to me LeBron did not establish position. It was a block by the standard above. I have watched that and at no time to Lebron actually stop moving. He was doing the electric slide IMO.

I get why people hate replays in sports. For me? I care that they get the call right but that is just me.

 

[Russ Smith]

and here we go again. Didn't see it but during the skirmish with Draymond and Tristan, Kevin Love left the Cleveland bench and was several feet out on the court arguing with the refs. ESPN just highlighted it wondering if Love will be suspended for leaving the bench onto the court during a fight. I sure hope not

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't think it is semantics. I heard another discussion this morning with an ex-ref that said they got the call right. The rule states:

Block-Charge: An on-ball, block-charge situation occurs when contact is made between an offensive player (who is moving in a particular direction or trying to change directions) and defensive player. The defender is permitted to establish his legal guarding position in the path of the dribbler regardless of his speed and distance. To get into a legal position, the defender needs to establish himself in the path of the offensive player before contact is made, thus “beating him to the spot,” and before he starts his upward shooting motion.

Clearly to me LeBron did not establish position. It was a block by the standard above. I have watched that and at no time to Lebron actually stop moving. He was doing the electric slide IMO.

I get why people hate replays in sports. For me? I care that they get the call right but that is just me.

yes that's the rule but what does establish mean? Does it mean set or just in front. To me beat to the spot means set, but lots of people are saying it does NOT mean set it just means in front.

I think it's the correct call as a block but it should never have been reviewed, and they need to change the wording on it because establish is too vague IMO

 

[Covert Rain]

yes that's the rule but what does establish mean? Does it mean set or just in front. To me beat to the spot means set, but lots of people are saying it does NOT mean set it just means in front.

I think it's the correct call as a block but it should never have been reviewed, and they need to change the wording on it because establish is too vague IMO

Beat to the spot is completely different than establish to me. They are not even remotely the same thing. If that was the case a block wouldn't exist in the NBA. That is just me.

Again, I get why people would be upset it was reviewed in the first place but I care more about getting it right.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I will say this again. Watched it several times. His left foot is not moving. He gets to the spot. As Durant is coming in he stiffens up and his right foot moves in towards his left. His left foot never moves. So by rule it is a charge. Just what i saw and many others did as well

 

[Covert Rain]

I will say this again. Watched it several times. His left foot is not moving. He gets to the spot. As Durant is coming in he stiffens up and his right foot moves in towards his left. His left foot never moves. So by rule it is a charge. Just what i saw and many others did as well

His right foot is what did him in. I have watched it over and over too. That is the opposite of establish. I think had he not "skipped" it clearly would have been a charge.

At the end of the day though, you have 4 quarters to do your job. If the game comes down to a single call or play to gripe about maybe they should have taken care of business earlier.

Heck...they still could have won if JR didn't have a brain fart.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not going to defend J.R. Smith because he had a chance to put the ball back up (at the risk of it being blocked) after he secured the rebound. However, I will give him credit for securing the rebound. He was also chased out of the lane by at least a couple of defenders.

 

[leclerc]

On topic: Curry looks stupid with that beard. Baby face stay baby face.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not going to defend J.R. Smith because he had a chance to put the ball back up (at the risk of it being blocked) after he secured the rebound. However, I will give him credit for securing the rebound. He was also chased out of the lane by at least a couple of defenders.

They had to chase him though he might stop and turn and pass.

Again to harp on Durant, he's the one that Smith bodied under the basket to get that rebound, no way in the world at that point in the game Durant can allow JR Smith to push him under the rim, man up and hold your ground there.

 

[SirStefan32]

I also think that Thompson should be suspended. His fist connected with Green's chin. That's a punch. Green should have gotten a T for waving at him though.

 

[ozzfloyd]

On topic: Curry looks stupid with that beard. Baby face stay baby face.

Yeah, dude looks like Clint Howard when he's sporting the beard. Not a great look.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The Warriors are the biggest group of dbags in NBA history. I would seriously cheer for the Lakers or Spurs over them.

 

[Raze]

I read this from SB Nation from a 2014 article. If the rules are still the same it could help shed some light on the call.



"To some degree, yes. The rulebook states that a defender needs to "get his torso directly in the path and beat him to the spot."

However, the notion that a player's feet must be entirely stationary in order to draw a charge call isn't really correct. Unlike most fans at home, referees don't look at a defender's feet and whether they're shuffling at the moment of impact. Instead, it's about whether the defender's torso is set in position.

So, players do need to get "set," but the common definition could use some tweaking." -



If it is indeed true that feet DON'T matter, which has been brought up by a number of commentators, then it was clearly a charge. Lebron's torso is upright before contact is made.

If it is indeed true that feet DO matter, which has been brought up by a number of commentators, then it was clearly a block. Lebron's right foot was sliding into place.

So the NBA needs to make an official statement as to which of the two is correct.

Edit: Actually, I just heard a great explanation from the League Official on NBA TV. Two things:
1. He stated that since his entire body (shoulders, torso, feet) were sliding before contact it's a block.
2. He said it's a close call. Close calls are always blocks. Tie goes to offense.

This would lean heavily toward being a block. He also said, the rule was confusing.

There is NO DOUBT that the rule on reviewing the foul is outrageous. I remember an Az Cardinal play many moons ago, where they reviewed a non penalty play (I think it was where the ball should be placed). As the lead official was announcing to the crowd the interpretation of the spot, threw his flag into the air and called a penalty. They found a penalty somewhere else on the field and called it against the Cards.

It was dumb then, it's dumb now. Billions of dollars floating around and they can't pull their heads out long enough to get a rule right (which the NFL already had gone through). Just another black eye for the NBA.