2019 NBA Playoff Discussion

[Mainstreet]

Here is a photo of players watching Leonard's game winning shot at the buzzer.

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[Dback Jon]

Warriors vs Blazers - battle of the small school guards

Steph Curry (Davidson/Southern Conference) vs Damian Lillard (Weber State/Big Sky) + CJ McCollum (Lehigh/Patriot League)

 

[Hoop Head]

Steph Curry also got hurt in that series and was a shell in those games. You can’t ignore that

That's true but he was a shell of his normal self in the previous year's finals as well. Steph has been disappointing in the 4 Finals that he's played in. Maybe it is injuries that causes him to slow down so much, we saw that here with Nash, and knowing he slows down as the Warriors get further into the postseason I wouldn't bet on them closing out the Blazers that quickly.

The Blazers may have just had a tough 7 game series but they have more momentum than Golden State does, IMO. They've been doubted for a while and seem to be making people eat their words. I know Barkley picked them to make it out of the West when the playoffs started and that pick makes sense now that we've gotten to see how they play without Nurkic and the chip on Lillard's shoulder.

I won't go so far to claim they'll win but I suspect it will be much closer than a lot of people are anticipating, especially without KD playing.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

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[Finito]

That's true but he was a shell of his normal self in the previous year's finals as well. Steph has been disappointing in the 4 Finals that he's played in. Maybe it is injuries that causes him to slow down so much, we saw that here with Nash, and knowing he slows down as the Warriors get further into the postseason I wouldn't bet on them closing out the Blazers that quickly.

The Blazers may have just had a tough 7 game series but they have more momentum than Golden State does, IMO. They've been doubted for a while and seem to be making people eat their words. I know Barkley picked them to make it out of the West when the playoffs started and that pick makes sense now that we've gotten to see how they play without Nurkic and the chip on Lillard's shoulder.

I won't go so far to claim they'll win but I suspect it will be much closer than a lot of people are anticipating, especially without KD playing.

I’m sorry I just can’t. Steph has been a shell in 4 finals? The Blazers have all the momentum despite watching GS get probably the biggest win in the playoffs during this whole run for them.

I get it you don’t like them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Raptors beat 76ers at the buzzer on a shot by Leonard.

It bounced all over the rim and went down.

Leonard finished with 41 points.

Incredible shot. I wonder if that helps convince Kawhi to stay. KaWOW!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I’m sorry I just can’t. Steph has been a shell in 4 finals? The Blazers have all the momentum despite watching GS get probably the biggest win in the playoffs during this whole run for them.

I get it you don’t like them.

What is he talking about? He had one off game in the Finals last season and still averaged 28 pts , 7 assists and 6 rebounds. Durant-who was MVP—averaged 29 pts, 8 assists and 10 rebounds.

 

[Hoop Head]

I’m sorry I just can’t. Steph has been a shell in 4 finals? The Blazers have all the momentum despite watching GS get probably the biggest win in the playoffs during this whole run for them.

I get it you don’t like them.

I actually do like the Warriors. If you refuse to believe that Steph plays below his normal level in the Finals though that says all I need to know about how you view them. When other stars step up, he steps aside and it has hurt Golden State in the past. They added Durant and that's allowed Steph to shoulder less pressure because before Durant showed up, Steph was far from special in the finals. He has been KD's sidekick in the finals for the last 2 titles and his play helped Lebron lead a comeback before KD and was bad that first year the Warriors met the Cavs.

The Warriors are the team that everyone anointed as champions from the day they signed Cousins last offseason. They've shown that they aren't as good as the sum of their parts and have struggled to play well with all of their stars together. They've played better when one or two of them sits and while one or two sits, the Blazers might be able to beat them. The Blazers have the only backcourt in the league that can shoot like the Warriors. They keep getting counted out but they keep coming back and proving people wrong. If they lose, no one will blame but if they win? They'll be the talk of the sports world for a good long while. Right now they have some momentum on their side while the Warriors have just been getting beat up, physically and mentally.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Incredible shot. I wonder if that helps convince Kawhi to stay. KaWOW!

you're pushing KaWOW here too, huh?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

The year they won their first title, Curry averaged 26, 6 and 6.

In the second finals matchup —when the team blew the series —Curry did “struggle.” He averaged: 22, 5 and 5.

In third finals, Curry averaged: 27, 9 and 8.

The past two finals, he put up MVP numbers and was just outshined by KD.

His career averages are : 24, 5 and 6, by the way.

Hardly “a shell.”

 

[Hoop Head]

The year they won their first title, Curry averaged 26, 6 and 6.

In the second finals matchup —when the team blew the series —Curry did “struggle.” He averaged: 22, 5 and 5.

In third finals, Curry averaged: 27, 9 and 8.

The past two finals, he put up MVP numbers and was just outshined by KD.

His career averages are : 24, 5 and 6, by the way.

Hardly “a shell.”

And look at his shooting numbers, he shot 40% from the field last year. So he was horribly inefficient. The year before he shot similar, albeit better, but worst from 3pt range at just 38% and 44% from the field. He doesn't step up his game when it matters. Look at how guys like Harden, Lillard, McCollum, Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, all step up in the playoffs and then there is Curry who takes a big step back. If KD weren't carrying them then who knows if they beat Lebron and the Cav's, they lost in the only year they played the Cavs big 3 healthy.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And look at his shooting numbers, he shot 40% from the field last year. So he was horribly inefficient. The year before he shot similar, albeit better, but worst from 3pt range at just 38% and 44% from the field. He doesn't step up his game when it matters. Look at how guys like Harden, Lillard, McCollum, Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, all step up in the playoffs and then there is Curry who takes a big step back. If KD weren't carrying them then who knows if they beat Lebron and the Cav's, they lost in the only year they played the Cavs big 3 healthy.

I think you are way off here. I am absolutely stunned that you believe Harden is someone who steps up in the playoffs and Curry is someone who takes a big step back. Curry has been beat up at times in the playoffs but even hobbled he's been fantastic most of the time. And Harden has disappeared in postseason going all the way back to college and on a level I've never seen from another star.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think you are way off here. I am absolutely stunned that you believe Harden is someone who steps up in the playoffs and Curry is someone who takes a big step back. Curry has been beat up at times in the playoffs but even hobbled he's been fantastic most of the time. And Harden has disappeared in postseason going all the way back to college and on a level I've never seen from another star.

Harden wasn't a great example but he averaged 34.8 ppg, 7 reb, and 5.5 apg vs the Warriors this year. If you want to talk numbers then those look pretty damn good. Of course he wasn't able to step up in that final game when it mattered but he did have really good averages. Curry's stats can be deceiving also, and I'm not talking about his postseason play as a whole so much as his play in the finals, where he hasn't been the best player on the court in any of the finals games he's played in. He has routinely been outshined by Lebron, Durant, Kyrie, and even Iggy. Steph may put up some good numbers in the finals but they're below his season stats for the most part and they're also as a sidekick.

In that last post, the one you quoted, I mentioned stepping up when it matters, which Lillard and Kawhi have this year, in a big way, and Curry has this year also but in the past he's struggled in the do or die situations and has struggled on the biggest stage of them all, the NBA Finals, when he's been "The Man" for Golden State. He's done better as the sidekick when there is less pressure on him. That would be fine if he were just an All-Star like Klay but he's a 2 time MVP and I know MVP's aren't earned in the playoffs but typically they step up in their play in the postseason and Curry hasn't done that regularly.

 

[Finito]

The year they won their first title, Curry averaged 26, 6 and 6.

In the second finals matchup —when the team blew the series —Curry did “struggle.” He averaged: 22, 5 and 5.

In third finals, Curry averaged: 27, 9 and 8.

The past two finals, he put up MVP numbers and was just outshined by KD.

His career averages are : 24, 5 and 6, by the way.

Hardly “a shell.”

I know right. I’m not a GS fan at all but that argument is just so off base

 

[Russ Smith]

I actually do like the Warriors. If you refuse to believe that Steph plays below his normal level in the Finals though that says all I need to know about how you view them. When other stars step up, he steps aside and it has hurt Golden State in the past. They added Durant and that's allowed Steph to shoulder less pressure because before Durant showed up, Steph was far from special in the finals. He has been KD's sidekick in the finals for the last 2 titles and his play helped Lebron lead a comeback before KD and was bad that first year the Warriors met the Cavs.

The Warriors are the team that everyone anointed as champions from the day they signed Cousins last offseason. They've shown that they aren't as good as the sum of their parts and have struggled to play well with all of their stars together. They've played better when one or two of them sits and while one or two sits, the Blazers might be able to beat them. The Blazers have the only backcourt in the league that can shoot like the Warriors. They keep getting counted out but they keep coming back and proving people wrong. If they lose, no one will blame but if they win? They'll be the talk of the sports world for a good long while. Right now they have some momentum on their side while the Warriors have just been getting beat up, physically and mentally.

He hasn't been as good in the finals as in the regular season yes, but most guys aren't they're playing against another great team over and over. Also of note in the 3-1 blown series he really had only 1 bad game in those 3, the problem is it was game 7, 17 points didn't shoot well they lost by 4, he couldn't make them pay for Kevin Love switching on him late in that game etc. He's a team player, what Cleveland did was start trapping him 35 feet from the basket so he'd make that over the shoulder pass to whoever set a screen and then they'd go 4 on 3. So he doesn't score and he doesn't get an assist, but his presence on the court is why they were getting that 4 on 3 look so regularly, Cleveland had to trap him.

That's why their record without Curry is so much worse than it is without Durant, as great as KD is nobody doubles KD 35 feet from the basket. They double him closer absolutely, but he doesn't force everyone's defense to "stretch out" the way Curry does.

I will concede he has not been out of this world in the finals, but I'd still say if they have to play in the postseason I'd rather play without Durant than without Curry.

 

[Russ Smith]

Harden wasn't a great example but he averaged 34.8 ppg, 7 reb, and 5.5 apg vs the Warriors this year. If you want to talk numbers then those look pretty damn good. Of course he wasn't able to step up in that final game when it mattered but he did have really good averages. Curry's stats can be deceiving also, and I'm not talking about his postseason play as a whole so much as his play in the finals, where he hasn't been the best player on the court in any of the finals games he's played in. He has routinely been outshined by Lebron, Durant, Kyrie, and even Iggy. Steph may put up some good numbers in the finals but they're below his season stats for the most part and they're also as a sidekick.

In that last post, the one you quoted, I mentioned stepping up when it matters, which Lillard and Kawhi have this year, in a big way, and Curry has this year also but in the past he's struggled in the do or die situations and has struggled on the biggest stage of them all, the NBA Finals, when he's been "The Man" for Golden State. He's done better as the sidekick when there is less pressure on him. That would be fine if he were just an All-Star like Klay but he's a 2 time MVP and I know MVP's aren't earned in the playoffs but typically they step up in their play in the postseason and Curry hasn't done that regularly.

I actually watched 2 games from the first title win not that long ago they were showing them on local tv. Iggy 100% deserved the MVP award but if you actually watch those games again you're going to have a hard time defending that Curry isn't the best player on the court for the Warriors. As I said above Cleveland was just doubling him a mile from the basket and making him give it up. They had Dellavadova and Shumpert taking turns beating Steph up and then would run Tristan Thompson over to take his best shot. Iggy's defense on LeBron was outstanding but his offense was almost entirely dependent on them doubling Steph and making someone else beat them and Iggy did it and averaged 16 6 and 4 APG. He won MVP because of his defense, that same series Steph was 26 5 and 6 and had 37 and 25 in the last 2 games. There are lots of people who think Steph should have won MVP, the reason they gave it to Iggy was that he was guarding then the best player on the planet in LeBron and did a good enough job that combined with offense it was fair. Steph played great defense that whole series but when you're guarding Dellavadova and he's guarding LeBron, I think it's a no brainer.

Next round will be interesting, I was hoping for more rest, I've seen some pics of the finger on Steph's left hand pretty gnarly, a couple more days to get that thing better would have been nice.

I'm curious if Draymond can control his temper in this series, he has a thing with Zach Collins that got him into some issues this year I hope it doesn't carry over to this series

 

[Russ Smith]

One last dig at Harden's "tactics". They asked Kevon Looney what it's like to play against him and he talked about how Harden is constantly trying to trick the refs. Said Harden is constantly grabbing your arm and then flailing and yelling at the ref for a foul etc. He said he thought the funniest thing harden did in this series and they have it on tape, he intentionally stepped on Looney's foot, and held it there trying to make Looney lose his balance. When he stepped off, he did a stepback 3 that missed. Looney said the whole way downcourt Harden was yelling at the ref "he tried to trip me". They have it on video you can see Harden step on his foot and hold the foot there, but he tells the ref Looney tried to trip me.

I suspect as the playoffs go along and especially within a series 2 things happen, the refs start to see all the stuff Harden is doing and they don't fall for it as much, and two, they get sick of it and start not calling things.

He's a brilliant offensive player again my main issues with Harden are all the faking, and his defense. If he played harder on defense it would help his team.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I actually watched 2 games from the first title win not that long ago they were showing them on local tv. Iggy 100% deserved the MVP award but if you actually watch those games again you're going to have a hard time defending that Curry isn't the best player on the court for the Warriors. As I said above Cleveland was just doubling him a mile from the basket and making him give it up. They had Dellavadova and Shumpert taking turns beating Steph up and then would run Tristan Thompson over to take his best shot. Iggy's defense on LeBron was outstanding but his offense was almost entirely dependent on them doubling Steph and making someone else beat them and Iggy did it and averaged 16 6 and 4 APG. He won MVP because of his defense, that same series Steph was 26 5 and 6 and had 37 and 25 in the last 2 games. There are lots of people who think Steph should have won MVP, the reason they gave it to Iggy was that he was guarding then the best player on the planet in LeBron and did a good enough job that combined with offense it was fair. Steph played great defense that whole series but when you're guarding Dellavadova and he's guarding LeBron, I think it's a no brainer.

Next round will be interesting, I was hoping for more rest, I've seen some pics of the finger on Steph's left hand pretty gnarly, a couple more days to get that thing better would have been nice.

I'm curious if Draymond can control his temper in this series, he has a thing with Zach Collins that got him into some issues this year I hope it doesn't carry over to this series

There is little doubt Green will get two more Ts and miss a game this series.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's amazing how much that first Finals MVP haunts Curry's reputation. Curry was clearly the best Warrior in that series but Iggy stepped up and made some huge plays late in the series and it swayed the voting. But watching it, it's not like everyone just expected Iggy to get the vote. It wasn't a bad selection but it could just as easily have been given to Steph.

And it's an example of why those first years the Warriors were so unusual. Their share the ball move it mentality was so unique, if you double Steph he gives it up. That year the open guys made shots. Iggy had 22 and 25 in the last 2 games it was not a shock he won MVP but as you said they could have easily given it to Steph.

That first title was the definition of a team beating a great player. The 2nd series the 3-1 loss that was the definition of pressure getting to a player but it wasn't Curry, it was Harrison Barnes who spent the whole series being dared to shoot and missing. People wanted Curry to just take over but's that's not how the Warriors played then so he continued to pass out of the doubles and expect Barnes to make the wide open shots, he didn't.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And it's an example of why those first years the Warriors were so unusual. Their share the ball move it mentality was so unique, if you double Steph he gives it up. That year the open guys made shots. Iggy had 22 and 25 in the last 2 games it was not a shock he won MVP but as you said they could have easily given it to Steph.

That first title was the definition of a team beating a great player.

I ended up deleting my post a few times because I'm half awake and screwed it up each time but yeah, Iggy played well above his role player status and Curry was just Curry so I have no problem with the MVP either. But Curry was still special throughout the playoffs and finals that year.

 

[Mainstreet]

Incredible shot. I wonder if that helps convince Kawhi to stay. KaWOW!

I hope Kawhi stays with the Raptors as they do not have a lot of younger star type players other than Siakam going forward.

That ball must have bounced on the rim four times before going down.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am a bit mystified by Kawhi. He seems so much less athletic than he used to be. He looks heavy-footed and doesn't seem to get much lift these days. But shots just go in--from every angle. And he is such a sneaky defender. He does not miss an opportunity to swipe the ball away etc.

 

[Russ Smith]

I am a bit mystified by Kawhi. He seems so much less athletic than he used to be. He looks heavy-footed and doesn't seem to get much lift these days. But shots just go in--from every angle. And he is such a sneaky defender. He does not miss an opportunity to swipe the ball away etc.

Their shooting coach is Chip Engelland and he's a guy I was touting as a sleeper hire for UCLA's next coach(he's local grew up a UCLA fan but actually went to Duke). Kawhi came in not a very good shooter and now is a terrific shooter because of Engelland.

I agree I think the injury took away some of Kawhi's lift but he's so long and so smart he's still a great defender.

That shot was so bizarre it was not only short it seemed to hit the side of the rim below the top and then the spin made it bounce forward, crazy bounces.

Philly has an interesting situation if they hold that roster together they will be good but they need to figure out how to keep Embiid healthy, and they need someone like Chip Engelland to teach Ben Simmons to shoot. I actually think Embiid needs to lose about 15 pounds I think it would help him as a player and might help him stay a bit healthier, but I figure the weight might be a result of the injuries and not practicing regularly to save his body.

If the Warriors get to the finals and play the Raptors I will be very happy for one Raptor, backup guard Norman Powell. Great kid 4 year player at UCLA, out of HS people said great athlete can't shoot. I remember he played at the Adidas event one year before his junior or senior year of college and one of the scouts there said he's playing the wrong sport should be a football player. And here he is still around in the NBA.

 

[Mainstreet]

Durant will miss game 1 of Warriors-Trail Blazers series.

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[Russ Smith]

And look at his shooting numbers, he shot 40% from the field last year. So he was horribly inefficient. The year before he shot similar, albeit better, but worst from 3pt range at just 38% and 44% from the field. He doesn't step up his game when it matters. Look at how guys like Harden, Lillard, McCollum, Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, all step up in the playoffs and then there is Curry who takes a big step back. If KD weren't carrying them then who knows if they beat Lebron and the Cav's, they lost in the only year they played the Cavs big 3 healthy.

Harden shot 25% from 3 in the Warriors series. He shot 46 overall. We can make some allowance for the eye injury obviously but he sure didn't step it up, he shot more yes, but he didn't step it up. Against Utah 37% overall 35 from 3.

I didn't bother to look up the others. I would agree LeBron steps it up and KD certainly did in the Clips series after one bad game, and was doing so in the Hou series when he got hurt.

I don't think Lillard and McCollum actually step it up 40% overall 27 from 3 in the Denver series. Mccollum was 45 and 37.