2019 O-line discussion

[Solar7]

I do call Spurrier and Kelly offensive geniuses. They were undone by other factors more than anything.

Spurrier surrounded himself with alot of college coaches and wouldnt adapt his protection schemes for the NFL level. He was undermined by Snyder and his personnel control.

Kelly was given too much power too quickly. His schemes are great, but not really suited for the NFL because they lack complexity to a degree.

The Air Raid is really a descendant of the west coast offense to a degree.

Like I said, Reid calls Kingsbury for advice. Reid is probably the best offensive mind in the NFL. I trust the best offensive mind in the NFL if he thinks someone knows offense.

Your negative Nancy attitude on every point is tiresome. There are very legitimate issues about this team...the offensive line has worrisome injury issues, the defensive line is relying to much on young depth, same with wide receiver, and Patrick Peterson's suspension comes at a time when there are winnable games.

And yet you get your panties twisted over someone calling Kingsbury an offensive genius.

I get bothered by people claiming coaches or players who haven't done a single thing in the NFL are anything yet. It's just as tiresome on my end. I can't seem to have a realistic conversation about the team without people accusing me of trolling or not being a fan because I'm not dripping optimism before anyone has played a full contact snap. At least you're admitting some of the other issues we're facing.

To be on topic, the O-Line is probably what will hurt any "genius" our head coach has.

 

[Red Bird]

It’s what the Franchise tag is for.

I was gonna say franchise him and make him prove it again.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I get bothered by people claiming coaches or players who haven't done a single thing in the NFL are anything yet. It's just as tiresome on my end. I can't seem to have a realistic conversation about the team without people accusing me of trolling or not being a fan because I'm not dripping optimism before anyone has played a full contact snap. At least you're admitting some of the other issues we're facing.

To be on topic, the O-Line is probably what will hurt any "genius" our head coach has.

Just because hes an offensive genius, it doesnt mean hes going to be successful.

Head coaching has a lot to do with organizational skills. That's why you see so many college head coaches fail. They were the ultimate CEO types, but weren't good at the XO side of football.

A college coach coming over doesnt have to worry about recruiting, talking to parents, managing player academics and eligibility. But the daily strategy is much greater.

 

[Solar7]

Just because hes an offensive genius, it doesnt mean hes going to be successful.

Head coaching has a lot to do with organizational skills. That's why you see so many college head coaches fail. They were the ultimate CEO types, but weren't good at the XO side of football.

A college coach coming over doesnt have to worry about recruiting, talking to parents, managing player academics and eligibility. But the daily strategy is much greater.

All I know is we're not that many years removed from people calling Mike McCoy an offensive genius either. Genius should be reserved for guys with years of sustained success, not a couple of phone calls from Andy Reid about college schemes.

 

[GuernseyCard]

All I know is we're not that many years removed from people calling Mike McCoy an offensive genius either. Genius should be reserved for guys with years of sustained success, not a couple of phone calls from Andy Reid about college schemes.

Not hard to work out who the offensive "genius", if the term even applies, in San Diego during and post McCoy's tenure.

 

[Solar7]

Not hard to work out who the offensive "genius", if the term even applies, in San Diego during and post McCoy's tenure.

No, but look at just last year, and people calling him a genius still.

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018...nse-gives-many-players-chances-to-make-plays/

Plenty of articles saying the same thing. The term shouldn't be thrown around so lightly.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No, but look at just last year, and people calling him a genius still.

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018...nse-gives-many-players-chances-to-make-plays/

Plenty of articles saying the same thing. The term shouldn't be thrown around so lightly.

What I remember on this board is that McCoy was pretty reviled from the start.

He was given the "offensive genius" tag when he was the Broncos OC, but that died quickly when he was no longer working with Peyton Manning.

Kingsbury has maintained the "offensive genius" tag from Houston to Texas A&M to Texas Tech. Everywhere he's gone, they've scored bunches of points and were considered innovative. He HAS had sustained success, he's not a flash in the pan.

Would you except football offensive genius? Meaning that at some levels, he is considered an offensive genius? One who....Andy Reid and Bill Belichick call (the greatest NFL offensive mind and THE greatest NFL football mind)?

 

[Krangodnzr]

No, but look at just last year, and people calling him a genius still.

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018...nse-gives-many-players-chances-to-make-plays/

Plenty of articles saying the same thing. The term shouldn't be thrown around so lightly.

I take anything that Jess Root writes with a boulder of salt. I respect the opinion of probably 30 posters on this board more than I respect his.

 

[Solar7]

What I remember on this board is that McCoy was pretty reviled from the start.

He was given the "offensive genius" tag when he was the Broncos OC, but that died quickly when he was no longer working with Peyton Manning.

Kingsbury has maintained the "offensive genius" tag from Houston to Texas A&M to Texas Tech. Everywhere he's gone, they've scored bunches of points and were considered innovative. He HAS had sustained success, he's not a flash in the pan.

Would you except football offensive genius? Meaning that at some levels, he is considered an offensive genius? One who....Andy Reid and Bill Belichick call (the greatest NFL offensive mind and THE greatest NFL football mind)?

I don't see the point in parsing words here. We can call KK an offensive genius when he calls plays in the NFL and we put up points. Until then, I'm not calling him anything besides a failed head coach at the college level, with some potential.

 

[vinnymac]

The Cardinals have not had good o-line coach in decades. We have one now. Like everyone else is saying,the o-line needs to stay healthy.

 

[Ronin]

J.R. Sweezy, Lamont Gaillard Go On The Offensive

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/j-r-sweezy-lamont-gaillard-go-on-the-offensive

 

[Ronin]

Cardinals Position Overview: Offensive Line

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/cardinals-position-overview-offensive-line

 

[CFLredzoned]

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/j-r-sweezy-lamont-gaillard-go-on-the-offensive

So I guess Cole gave his number 64 up to Sweazy? Usually you hear about that from the media.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

PFF's Offensive Line Ranking for us as of today is #30. Only Dolphins and Texans are worse.

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: D.J. Humphries
Left Guard: J.R. Sweezy
Center: Mason Cole
Right Guard: Justin Pugh
Right Tackle: Marcus Gilbert

The Cardinals’ offensive line was a shambles last year. They allowed the league’s second-most total pressures (218), the fourth-most hurries (142), the second-most hits (42) and the second-most sacks (34), all while they ranked dead last among teams in snaps played per pressure (2.6). And even though they added J.R. Sweezy and Marcus Gilbert over the offseason, you shouldn’t be surprised to hear that they’re still pretty thin upfront. Center Mason Cole allowed the second-most pressures among centers as a rookie, while J.R. Sweezy has allowed pressure on 5.7% of his snaps since 2016, which is tied for 60th among the 98 guards who have played at least 500 pass-blocking snaps in that three-year period.

 

[Krangodnzr]

PFF's Offensive Line Ranking for us as of today is #30. Only Dolphins and Texans are worse.

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: D.J. Humphries
Left Guard: J.R. Sweezy
Center: Mason Cole
Right Guard: Justin Pugh
Right Tackle: Marcus Gilbert

The Cardinals’ offensive line was a shambles last year. They allowed the league’s second-most total pressures (218), the fourth-most hurries (142), the second-most hits (42) and the second-most sacks (34), all while they ranked dead last among teams in snaps played per pressure (2.6). And even though they added J.R. Sweezy and Marcus Gilbert over the offseason, you shouldn’t be surprised to hear that they’re still pretty thin upfront. Center Mason Cole allowed the second-most pressures among centers as a rookie, while J.R. Sweezy has allowed pressure on 5.7% of his snaps since 2016, which is tied for 60th among the 98 guards who have played at least 500 pass-blocking snaps in that three-year period.

I think that PFF is underrating the most important addition to the line....Sean Kugler.

Trai Essex was on Doug and Wolf this morning with of course Max Starks as one of the fill-ins while Doug and Wolf are on vacation. They were raving about Kugler. They said that he is the type of coach who adjusts how he coaches individual linemen based on their own strengths as a blocker. Basically tailor made coaching depending on what technique a lineman uses to win.

From everyone I've heard talk about Sweezy, they've said that he is a tone setter for the line. Fans and media members often miss out on how a player can affect a position group in the locker room, the practice field, the classroom, and on game days. While Sweezy hasn't been a good pass blocker, he is a tough run blocker who plays to the whistle.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I also think Cole is the back up

 

[kerouac9]

I think that PFF is underrating the most important addition to the line....Sean Kugler.

Trai Essex was on Doug and Wolf this morning with of course Max Starks as one of the fill-ins while Doug and Wolf are on vacation. They were raving about Kugler. They said that he is the type of coach who adjusts how he coaches individual linemen based on their own strengths as a blocker. Basically tailor made coaching depending on what technique a lineman uses to win.

From everyone I've heard talk about Sweezy, they've said that he is a tone setter for the line. Fans and media members often miss out on how a player can affect a position group in the locker room, the practice field, the classroom, and on game days. While Sweezy hasn't been a good pass blocker, he is a tough run blocker who plays to the whistle.

Man... this is vintage Dave McGinnis posting here.

 

[Ronin]

I also think Cole is the back up

Lamont Gaillard already taking the starting center position? Nice!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Man... this is vintage Dave McGinnis posting here.

LOL true.

 

[cardpa]

I think that PFF is underrating the most important addition to the line....Sean Kugler.

Trai Essex was on Doug and Wolf this morning with of course Max Starks as one of the fill-ins while Doug and Wolf are on vacation. They were raving about Kugler. They said that he is the type of coach who adjusts how he coaches individual linemen based on their own strengths as a blocker. Basically tailor made coaching depending on what technique a lineman uses to win.

From everyone I've heard talk about Sweezy, they've said that he is a tone setter for the line. Fans and media members often miss out on how a player can affect a position group in the locker room, the practice field, the classroom, and on game days. While Sweezy hasn't been a good pass blocker, he is a tough run blocker who plays to the whistle.

Then the blocking schemes are going to be very limited. Linemen need to be able to do various things based not only on the play called and the type of blocking required for it's success but also on what the defense presents and where possible blitzes would be coming from. If a linemen is limited to what he does well then it limits what blocking assignments he can handle.

 

[cardpa]

I thought this was a pretty fair assessment of Humphries.

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2019/7/8/20686932/its-a-mistake-to-count-on-d-j-humphries

 

[Stout]

PFF's Offensive Line Ranking for us as of today is #30. Only Dolphins and Texans are worse.

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: D.J. Humphries
Left Guard: J.R. Sweezy
Center: Mason Cole
Right Guard: Justin Pugh
Right Tackle: Marcus Gilbert

The Cardinals’ offensive line was a shambles last year. They allowed the league’s second-most total pressures (218), the fourth-most hurries (142), the second-most hits (42) and the second-most sacks (34), all while they ranked dead last among teams in snaps played per pressure (2.6). And even though they added J.R. Sweezy and Marcus Gilbert over the offseason, you shouldn’t be surprised to hear that they’re still pretty thin upfront. Center Mason Cole allowed the second-most pressures among centers as a rookie, while J.R. Sweezy has allowed pressure on 5.7% of his snaps since 2016, which is tied for 60th among the 98 guards who have played at least 500 pass-blocking snaps in that three-year period.

Jesus, this is bleak.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Jesus, this is bleak.

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[Chopper0080]

PFF's Offensive Line Ranking for us as of today is #30. Only Dolphins and Texans are worse.

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:
Left Tackle: D.J. Humphries
Left Guard: J.R. Sweezy
Center: Mason Cole
Right Guard: Justin Pugh
Right Tackle: Marcus Gilbert

The Cardinals’ offensive line was a shambles last year. They allowed the league’s second-most total pressures (218), the fourth-most hurries (142), the second-most hits (42) and the second-most sacks (34), all while they ranked dead last among teams in snaps played per pressure (2.6). And even though they added J.R. Sweezy and Marcus Gilbert over the offseason, you shouldn’t be surprised to hear that they’re still pretty thin upfront. Center Mason Cole allowed the second-most pressures among centers as a rookie, while J.R. Sweezy has allowed pressure on 5.7% of his snaps since 2016, which is tied for 60th among the 98 guards who have played at least 500 pass-blocking snaps in that three-year period.

I think 30 is fair. I don't believe that they are better than that when considering talent and health. If Cole develops, they can be better. If Humphries stays healthy, they can be better. Pugh...the same. Gilbert...the same. Kyler being mobile could make them better. Hell, if Kugler can be a better coach, they can be better.

BUT, you can't ignore all of these "ifs". They are a terrible unit until they show me they are something different.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

They are a terrible unit until they show me they are something different.

+1