2021 1st round pick is Zaven Collins

[PACardsFan]

The 49ers won despite Brock Purdy, not because of him. Kyle Shanahan somehow built a QB proof offense.

It’s called a legit top 5 defense.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I don't really know exactly who will start, I just know that the guys who we have competing for those starting spots are dudes that have, thus far, been fringe roster guys around the league.

I don't really see the team adding anyone of note at this point. I expect any remaining additions will be more of the same, guys who've hardly seen a down outside of special teams.

Ok this I would agree to a point. But doesn't every team have people off the street competing for spots?

 

[Phrazbit]

Ok this I would agree to a point. But doesn't every team have people off the street competing for spots?

There are always position battles but I've never seen anything like what is about to happen here.

This isn't an established vet trying to hold off a young guy for a starting spot, you see that all the time.

Instead we've got like 6 or 7 positions where league minimum players that have only seen playing time on special teams or as a deep depth reserve, but here they are battling it out with each other to start... not merely to make the roster as the 52nd man, but to be a starter.

Not even counting all that we're moving Collins to a new position, we've got Marco Wilson slated as CB1 despite him being one of the worst corners in the NFL last year.

They're tanking... they are tanking to an extreme that I have not seen before in the NFL and I think the results will reflect that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bro the Cardinals lost some players that would have played meaningful snaps. Losing your proven to be good LT and #1 for most of the year will down a lot of playoff teams. Then, when you lose guys like Hernandez AND then lose your planned backups, you're quickly playing below replacement level players at a number of positions.

You’re right. Also right, that squad was horrid down the stretch the season before, got waxed in the playoffs, and didn’t look good before the injuries. But sure, the injuries did in last season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You’re right. Also right, that squad was horrid down the stretch the season before, got waxed in the playoffs, and didn’t look good before the injuries. But sure, the injuries did in last season.

And injuries also struck the team down the stretch as well the year before, while the Rams won the Super Bowl and were basically among the most healthy teams in the league.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know it sounds crazy pants Ouchie but I'm about 45% sure that Murray tanked it last season to get rid of K2

Going from #1 on deep throws in 2021 to dead last in deep throws in 2022? Come on... That's pretty much impossible unless he was trying to be bad.

And then there were a couple of games where on the opening drive on offense we just knifed down the field for seven, and I was thinking, "well okay, looks like we're back on track", and then we'd go into the pooper the rest of the game (like Murray shut it down after the first drive).

Is that even plausible, or does it sound like wishful thinking? (or do I sound like I'm from planet crazy town).

I think that’s crazy town. Because that means he decided to tank the second half of the best season of his career when he was being mentioned as an mvp candidate and then yanked the playoffs. That’s the trajectory the team was continuing last season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

There are always position battles but I've never seen anything like what is about to happen here.

This isn't an established vet trying to hold off a young guy for a starting spot, you see that all the time.

Instead we've got like 6 or 7 positions where league minimum players that have only seen playing time on special teams or as a deep depth reserve, but here they are battling it out with each other to start..

You're losing me here. Which positions are you talking about? This is not the case at all.

not merely to make the roster as the 52nd man, but to be a starter.

?

Not even counting all that we're moving Collins to a new position, we've got Marco Wilson slated as CB1 despite him being one of the worst corners in the NFL last year.

Nonsense. Wilson gave up the lowest QB Rating on the Cardinals last year.

They're tanking... they are tanking to an extreme that I have not seen before in the NFL and I think the results will reflect that.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think that’s crazy town. Because that means he decided to tank the second half of the best season of his career when he was being mentioned as an mvp candidate and then yanked the playoffs. That’s the trajectory the team was continuing last season.

You mean starting with the inexplicable loss to DET in 2021? I guess my little tin-foil-hat conspiracy theory could be extrapolated out to that conclusion, I see.

Eh, I think I'll chalk that dreadful take up to wishful thinking. Thanks man! Hope you aren't working too hard this summer and that you get some time off!

 

[WisconsinCard]

There are always position battles but I've never seen anything like what is about to happen here.

This isn't an established vet trying to hold off a young guy for a starting spot, you see that all the time.

Instead we've got like 6 or 7 positions where league minimum players that have only seen playing time on special teams or as a deep depth reserve, but here they are battling it out with each other to start... not merely to make the roster as the 52nd man, but to be a starter.

Not even counting all that we're moving Collins to a new position, we've got Marco Wilson slated as CB1 despite him being one of the worst corners in the NFL last year.

They're tanking... they are tanking to an extreme that I have not seen before in the NFL and I think the results will reflect that.

I think the only position groups that would be in question is the d-line, CB (and Hamilton has been the in the league 7 or so years), and our center. Other than that, I see most other starting players that would make other squads. That is not terrible in a rebuilding year. As far as saying tank I believe that doesn't mean they are not trying to win games, it just that we're going to player the youngers and take our lumps all at once, so hopefully they are all ready to go in 2024. At least that is my hope.

 

[CardNots]

They're tanking... they are tanking to an extreme that I have not seen before in the NFL and I think the results will reflect that.

so what?

back when preseason was meaningful I actually enjoyed the preseason games far more than the regular season. in fact, game 4 was my favorite as the field was dominated by those desperately trying to land a spot on an nfl team.

the worst outcome is 17 games of game 4 on steroids. Although I’m running against Father Time now, this scenario is better than getting my hopes up only to have them crushed after a few games into the season. For me it’s interesting to see how things play to a different script.

keep in mind I have zero skin in the game but I do proudly display my Cardinals license tag on the front of my 19 year old TL oh yeah I still don my cardinals bucket hat when I mow my lawn. I have a big lawn…

 

[Garthshort]

The 49ers won despite Brock Purdy, not because of him. Kyle Shanahan somehow built a QB proof offense.

Time will tell. I'm at least glad that there is one NFL fan that doesn't think that the QB position is important.

 

[Stout]

I think the only position groups that would be in question is the d-line, CB (and Hamilton has been the in the league 7 or so years), and our center. Other than that, I see most other starting players that would make other squads. That is not terrible in a rebuilding year. As far as saying tank I believe that doesn't mean they are not trying to win games, it just that we're going to player the youngers and take our lumps all at once, so hopefully they are all ready to go in 2024. At least that is my hope.

Yet most of those youngsters are gone after this season. Sure, get the draftees their snaps, but this is the problem when your GM decides not to play in FA--no development of any kind for the rest of the roster. So we get to blood a bunch of other players, figure out if they can play, then they're gone. Pretty much a waste.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Can they make a run in 2024. Maybe if they sigh RB Cook, WR Wilson and Murry are good. They resign Hollywood. Collins, Sanders, Cameron Thomas and Ojulari show signs of being great. Garrett Williams was a steel. McBride is a beast. But they only win a hand full of games and the Texans are bad. Going into the 2024 draft they could trade one of those number ones for a stud Defensive linemen. Draft a CB and role.

 

[Phrazbit]

so what?

back when preseason was meaningful I actually enjoyed the preseason games far more than the regular season. in fact, game 4 was my favorite as the field was dominated by those desperately trying to land a spot on an nfl team.

the worst outcome is 17 games of game 4 on steroids. Although I’m running against Father Time now, this scenario is better than getting my hopes up only to have them crushed after a few games into the season. For me it’s interesting to see how things play to a different script.

keep in mind I have zero skin in the game but I do proudly display my Cardinals license tag on the front of my 19 year old TL oh yeah I still don my cardinals bucket hat when I mow my lawn. I have a big lawn…

I neither condone or condemn.

I get what they're doing. Kiem left behind a roster in total turmoil and they decided on a hard reset... it might be harder than I would prescribe, but it is what it is.

I think we are going to suffer through one of the all-time worst seasons this coming year, and while 2024 will probably show some promise, I don't see the Cards playing meaningful football until, at least, 2025.

It is what it is. I am morbidly curious to see how wild this year gets... it might be so bad that it's fun. But also, not even 2 years ago I was on this board proclaiming my belief that the Cardinals were in a spot to contend year after year, I thought the sky was the limit. As a fan, no franchise I have cheered for has flipped so fast.

 

[CardNots]

Time will tell. I'm at least glad that there is one NFL fan that doesn't think that the QB position is important.

Make that two

 

[PACardsFan]

There are always position battles but I've never seen anything like what is about to happen here.

This isn't an established vet trying to hold off a young guy for a starting spot, you see that all the time.

Instead we've got like 6 or 7 positions where league minimum players that have only seen playing time on special teams or as a deep depth reserve, but here they are battling it out with each other to start... not merely to make the roster as the 52nd man, but to be a starter.

Not even counting all that we're moving Collins to a new position, we've got Marco Wilson slated as CB1 despite him being one of the worst corners in the NFL last year.

They're tanking... they are tanking to an extreme that I have not seen before in the NFL and I think the results will reflect that.

I would agree 100% if we still had KK, VJ, and SK still running the show. You’re not taking into account that Philly went to the SB last year by emphasizing certain positions and not emphasizing others. And it would appear that JG & MO are following the same script. I’m not saying this Cardinal team has the talent to do that, they don’t. But by taking OL, Edge, and CB with our first 3 picks, MOJG‘s plan has begun. It’s NOT a tank, it’s a conversion to an entirely different system. Will it result in losses early on? Probably. But, it’s an approach that hopefully brings forth longer term success.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know what players were mentioned. First time use of the ignore button. But I can only assume what it might say. I don't even know how anyone can project the starting lineup right now??

Doesn’t that argue in favor of the chance many would not start for other teams?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't really know exactly who will start, I just know that the guys who we have competing for those starting spots are dudes that have, thus far, been fringe roster guys around the league.

I don't really see the team adding anyone of note at this point. I expect any remaining additions will be more of the same, guys who've hardly seen a down outside of special teams.

Right. Those spots are not open becasue there are intense high level battles for starting spots. They are battles of who won’t suck more.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok this I would agree to a point. But doesn't every team have people off the street competing for spots?

Spots? Yes. Starting spots? Not really. Five or more starting spots? Only the worst teams.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And injuries also struck the team down the stretch as well the year before, while the Rams won the Super Bowl and were basically among the most healthy teams in the league.

You are free to believe this is a better team than it is and to redefine what happened the last season and half as you see fit. It’s fruitless for me to continue this argument.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You mean starting with the inexplicable loss to DET in 2021? I guess my little tin-foil-hat conspiracy theory could be extrapolated out to that conclusion, I see.

Eh, I think I'll chalk that dreadful take up to wishful thinking. Thanks man! Hope you aren't working to hard this summer and that you get some time off!

Thanks crimson. Hope you get to enjoy the summer as well.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Doesn’t that argue in favor of the chance many would not start for other teams?

The statement did not say anything about starting for other teams. The statement was that our people who are vying for starting positions couldn't make another teams roster. So you either read it incorrectly or you're trying to move the goal post. So no argument necessary.

 

[BritCard]

But we're obviously not getting DHop, Hudson, A.J. Green, or Justin Pugh back. So, what am I imagining?

I don't understand how people can hold the concepts of "We were actually good in 2022 except for injuries" and "we obviously needed to tear the roster down to the studs" in their minds at the same time.

Who has both those things in their mind at the same time? Who said we would have been good in 2022?

It's very easy to have the opinion that while the roster needed work it was a better team than 4-13 had it been healthy. We know this without a shadow of doubt considering an almost identical team went 11-6 the year before.

 

[BritCard]

(or do I sound like I'm from planet crazy town).

Yes

Kliff had just signed a 4 year extension and Kyler just got paid a massive contract after throwing his toys out of the pram.

No way Kyler threw the season.

 

[BritCard]

Leki Fotu
Rashard Lawrence
Froholdt
Whomever starts at RG
Antonio Hamilton
Whomever starts at WILB/off-ball linebacker beside White

You do realise right that apart from Fotu and Lawrence all the other players you mentioned have made and started for numerous other teams?

Including "whoever starts at RG" which is Will Hernandez.