2021 1st round pick is Zaven Collins

[BritCard]

Yet most of those youngsters are gone after this season. Sure, get the draftees their snaps, but this is the problem when your GM decides not to play in FA--no development of any kind for the rest of the roster. So we get to blood a bunch of other players, figure out if they can play, then they're gone. Pretty much a waste.

Such as?

Lawrence and Fotu are the youngest guys who are FA next year and this thread is arguing they suck. The only other "Young" player of any note that is FA next year is Simmons and nobody here would pay him more than vet min as things stand.

Not sure who these "most" youngsters are.

 

[Stout]

Such as?

Lawrence and Fotu are the youngest guys who are FA next year and this thread is arguing they suck. The only other "Young" player of any note that is FA next year is Simmons and nobody here would pay him more than vet min as things stand.

Not sure who these "most" youngsters are.

Surely you jest. How many one-year contracts did we sign young players to? But you knew that already. So why try to start an argument?

 

[BritCard]

Surely you jest. How many one-year contracts did we sign young players to? But you knew that already. So why try to start an argument?

Erm, none?

The youngest player we signed to a 1 year deal is Krys Barnes at 24. A LB we all expect will be on ST's if he makes the roster at all.

The only guy that might see some time as a starter on a 1 year deal is Rashad Fenton at 26.1.

Which players are you refering to?

 

[Krangodnzr]

You are free to believe this is a better team than it is and to redefine what happened the last season and half as you see fit. It’s fruitless for me to continue this argument.

I don't have to believe anything. It's a fact that injuries substantially affected them.

The Cardinals had like 100 missed games by starters. That's a statistically significant number of games lost.

 

[Garthshort]

Make that two

Find about 10 million more and we'll be even.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Who do you believe are projected starters that would not make a lot of teams?

I went back to check if i crossed discussions and it’s pretty much talking about starters all throughout this argument. So no moving goalposts. Maybe you were confused.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The statement did not say anything about starting for other teams. The statement was that our people who are vying for starting positions couldn't make another teams roster. So you either read it incorrectly or you're trying to move the goal post. So no argument necessary.

Ah, I see where I got confused. If you’re arguing whether those guys are fringe for other teams or not I think the proof is in the one year $1M contracts. Those are the very definition of fringe imo.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Who has both those things in their mind at the same time? Who said we would have been good in 2022?

It's very easy to have the opinion that while the roster needed work it was a better team than 4-13 had it been healthy. We know this without a shadow of doubt considering an almost identical team went 11-6 the year before.

The year before was a tale of two teams. The latter part of the year team continued into last year. That’s who they were.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't have to believe anything. It's a fact that injuries substantially affected them.

The Cardinals had like 100 missed games by starters. That's a statistically significant number of games lost.

Again, if you want to believe that sans injuries this was even an average team that’s your prerogative. What I’ve seen on the field for the last 23+ games says otherwise. Injuries are part of the game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Again, if you want to believe that sans injuries this was even an average team that’s your prerogative. What I’ve seen on the field for the last 23+ games says otherwise. Injuries are part of the game.

Losing over 100 games to injuries "isn't just part of the game". The Chiefs don't win the Super Bowl if they are that injured.

 

[kerouac9]

Losing over 100 games to injuries "isn't just part of the game". The Chiefs don't win the Super Bowl if they are that injured.

Detroit and Tampa had nearly as many adjusted games lost as we did. One is the model many here hope we follow and the other made the playoffs last year.

We were 29th in AGL and San Francisco was 24th. Injuries happen in the NFL; we weren’t even the most-injured team last year. The defense was in the middle of the league.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Losing over 100 games to injuries "isn't just part of the game". The Chiefs don't win the Super Bowl if they are that injured.

What if bad coaching and player leadership were as responsible as injuries for us sucking last year?

Does that not also have a chance to be reversed this year?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

What if bad coaching and player leadership were as responsible as injuries for us sucking last year?

Does that not also have a chance to be reversed this year?

I think it was The perfect Storm. Teams with depth and good coaching can overcome a certain level of injuries, or at least remain competitive when they are decimated by injury. A Cardinals were decimated and just looked hopeless, which points to the lack of depth and less than stellar coaching.

 

[kerouac9]

Who has both those things in their mind at the same time? Who said we would have been good in 2022?

It's very easy to have the opinion that while the roster needed work it was a better team than 4-13 had it been healthy. We know this without a shadow of doubt considering an almost identical team went 11-6 the year before.

If that's the case, then we did we need a total rebuild?

You do realise right that apart from Fotu and Lawrence all the other players you mentioned have made and started for numerous other teams?

Including "whoever starts at RG" which is Will Hernandez.

Frojoldt has nearly been waived more times than he's started and NFL game. The games he did start was as an injury substitute. After like three other players got injured. That's bottom-of-the-roster/nearly-out-of-the-NFL type stuff.

Antonio Hamilton has definitely been waived more often than he's started games. Jobs are tenuous in the NFL, and these are guys who are used to living on the fringes of NFL rosters until arriving here and are assumed starters.

Then sub out "whoever starts at LG."

Such as?

Lawrence and Fotu are the youngest guys who are FA next year and this thread is arguing they suck. The only other "Young" player of any note that is FA next year is Simmons and nobody here would pay him more than vet min as things stand.

Not sure who these "most" youngsters are.

Hollywood Brown is a FA next year and will likely take up $20 million in cap space or more in 2024 (unless we're back-loading his deal).

 

[MadCardDisease]

What if bad coaching and player leadership were as responsible as injuries for us sucking last year?

Does that not also have a chance to be reversed this year?

It's not what if with regards to bad coaching.

About mid way through the 2021 season the NFL figured out how to defend Kliff's offense. It went downhill from there and Kliff never adjusted. In 2022 the mind numbing amount of mental errors that occurred under Kliff was just unbelievable. How a HC in his 4th year had a team that looked so unorganized is incomprehensible.

In 2023 I don't believe the New Cardinals Coaching staff will be perfect. Obviously the coaching staff is new to their positions and there will be some growing pains. However I do think they can set a solid foundation by reducing the self inflicted wounds that we saw on a regular basis from the previous regime.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We won 4 games last year and in the off season we've lost several of the best players from that squad. In free agency we made absolutely zero effort to fill those holes.

Several of the best players from that squad?

Watt
Hopkins
Murphy
Allen

For a team that is starved for talent, getting nothing other than perhaps a comp pick or two for 4 of your best players is sickening.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Who has both those things in their mind at the same time? Who said we would have been good in 2022?

It's very easy to have the opinion that while the roster needed work it was a better team than 4-13 had it been healthy. We know this without a shadow of doubt considering an almost identical team went 11-6 the year before.

See this is where Bidwill got it wrong. He bought into the Keim narrative that it was injuries which killed the 2021 season but completely ignored that other teams had figured out how to slow Kliff's offense mid way through the 2021 season.

 

[BritCard]

If that's the case, then we did we need a total rebuild?

Age. We had some good starters age out. Watt. Hudson. Pugh etc. Beachum is nearly there and likely goes to a backup role.

Some guys that were overpaid by Keim like Hopkins. And general poor cap situation brought on by years of Keim's "One last push. This year will be different" attitude.

Frojoldt has nearly been waived more times than he's started and NFL game. The games he did start was as an injury substitute. After like three other players got injured. That's bottom-of-the-roster/nearly-out-of-the-NFL type stuff.

Antonio Hamilton has definitely been waived more often than he's started games. Jobs are tenuous in the NFL, and these are guys who are used to living on the fringes of NFL rosters until arriving here and are assumed starters.

Then sub out "whoever starts at LG."

So, like 2 players? Josh jones will likely start at LG.

Hollywood Brown is a FA next year and will likely take up $20 million in cap space or more in 2024 (unless we're back-loading his deal).

Stout clearly wasn't talking about Hollywood. He specifically said players we just signed to 1 year deals.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

About mid way through the 2021 season the NFL figured out how to defend Kliff's offense. It went downhill from there and Kliff never adjusted. In 2022 the mind numbing amount of mental errors that occurred under Kliff was just unbelievable. How a HC in his 4th year had a team that looked so unorganized is incomprehensible.

I mean, it's completely comprehensible if you followed Kliff and the Cards the first 3 years. There NEVER was any discipline or organization, from the QB that told everyone he's a pre-cog to responding to the playoff embarrassment with the ultimate Camp Cupcake.

The team NEVER stopped with the mental mistakes, false starts, and had guys all over the place shaking their heads and lost. This was 3 years in!

 

[BritCard]

See this is where Bidwill got it wrong. He bought into that Keim narrative that it was injuries which killed the 2021 season but completely ignored that other teams had figured out how to slow Kliff's offense mid way through the 2021 season.

There was a narrative that injuries killed 2021? Hopkins and Alford were the only late season injuries we had.

I don't buy that teams figured Kliff out. Kliff had been in the league a couple of years by the time that 11-6 season came around. His offense is notoriously simple. Teams had him figured out half way through 2019.

For me it's more simple. Kyler played lights out, and then he didn't. That season was far more down to Kyler than Kliff.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

There was a narrative that injuries killed 2021? Hopkins and Alford were the only late season injuries we had.

Shall we compare the #'s with Hopkins and without?

You're forgetting the biggest injury of the season - Maxxxx!

 

[BritCard]

Detroit and Tampa had nearly as many adjusted games lost as we did. One is the model many here hope we follow and the other made the playoffs last year.

We were 29th in AGL and San Francisco was 24th. Injuries happen in the NFL; we weren’t even the most-injured team last year. The defense was in the middle of the league.

We were the 3rd most injured team.

Detroit and Tampa didn't have "nearly as many" games lost. The Cards had 290 games lost to injury. The Lions had 250 (8th) and the Bucs had 170 (20th).

Most importantly, none of them lost their starting QB and nearly all their O line. It's not just games, but where those games are.

 

[Stout]

Erm, none?

The youngest player we signed to a 1 year deal is Krys Barnes at 24. A LB we all expect will be on ST's if he makes the roster at all.

The only guy that might see some time as a starter on a 1 year deal is Rashad Fenton at 26.1.

Which players are you refering to?

The original poster just mentioned young players developing and getting good. Well, the only way we'd have young players coming good, besides draft picks, would be the 1-year wonder deals. Simple math. And, if they come good, they're FA and can walk.

Again, are you just looking for an argument? I'm not interested if you are. I was merely responding to a poster projecting hope for development for players we're probably developing for other teams.

 

[Krangodnzr]

What if bad coaching and player leadership were as responsible as injuries for us sucking last year?

It's a combo.

Does that not also have a chance to be reversed this year?

Partially.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Leki Fotu
Rashard Lawrence
Froholdt
Whomever starts at RG
Antonio Hamilton
Whomever starts at WILB/off-ball linebacker beside White

I'd give you all but RG. I think Hernandez starts on most teams.