2021 1st round pick is Zaven Collins

kerouac9

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I'd give you all but RG. I think Hernandez starts on most teams.
FWIW, I agree that Hernandez makes the roster on most teams. A very bad New York Giants offensive line didn't want him back, and he didn't get offered more than the very, very modest contract he got from the Cards.

I have PJJ slotted in at RT right now. So I'm assuming that our other guard position (not Hernandez) is going to be a scrub who would struggle to keep a roster spot elsewhere (although would probably get a camp invite).
 

Krangodnzr

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Detroit and Tampa had nearly as many adjusted games lost as we did.
And neither team was all that good were they?
One is the model many here hope we follow and the other made the playoffs last year.

We were 29th in AGL and San Francisco was 24th. Injuries happen in the NFL; we weren’t even the most-injured team last year.
Ok...but the Cardinals were amongst the top five most injured teams. You're splitting hairs here.
The defense was in the middle of the league.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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What if bad coaching and player leadership were as responsible as injuries for us sucking last year?

Does that not also have a chance to be reversed this year?
The truth is a myriad # of elements come into play from year to year. So we could play the guessing game of which had the greatest impact on a given year until we are blue in the face. But in my opinion the proof is in the pudding: 5-18 in last 23 games played. That’s a winning percentage that would next below 4 wins in a season. Bad team, injured team, still a BAD team.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think it was The perfect Storm. Teams with depth and good coaching can overcome a certain level of injuries, or at least remain competitive when they are decimated by injury. A Cardinals were decimated and just looked hopeless, which points to the lack of depth and less than stellar coaching.
And depth is still part of a team. You have bad depth it contributes to being a bad team.
 

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Ah, I see where I got confused. If you’re arguing whether those guys are fringe for other teams or not I think the proof is in the one year $1M contracts. Those are the very definition of fringe imo.
Ok then tell which one of those one year contacts are considered starters? Unless you talking about special team starters? I guess that counts.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Ok then tell which one of those one year contacts are considered starters? Unless you talking about special team starters? I guess that counts.
Fringe goes beyond those. And I think the list given was a fair representation of fringy guys that will be starting. Do you dispute that? I mean fotu and froholdt are the like the fringiest of projected fringe starters I think I’ve ever seen and as a cardinals fan, you know there’s a long list there…
 

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Fringe goes beyond those. And I think the list given was a fair representation of fringy guys that will be starting. Do you dispute that? I mean fotu and froholdt are the like the fringiest of projected fringe starters I think I’ve ever seen and as a cardinals fan, you know there’s a long list there…
Anthony Bautiste says hello. So does Fred Wakefield… switched to offense!
 

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Fringe goes beyond those. And I think the list given was a fair representation of fringy guys that will be starting. Do you dispute that? I mean fotu and froholdt are the like the fringiest of projected fringe starters I think I’ve ever seen and as a cardinals fan, you know there’s a long list there…
Eh I've got a long memory. We've seen UDFAs start in year one.
 

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Fringe goes beyond those. And I think the list given was a fair representation of fringy guys that will be starting. Do you dispute that? I mean fotu and froholdt are the like the fringiest of projected fringe starters I think I’ve ever seen and as a cardinals fan, you know there’s a long list there…
I said Center and DL were possible starters that couldn't make other rosters. But that wasn't the original post. He said "several all over the place". I thought it was hyperbole. Oh hell why am I even debating this with you when you got it all wrong from the beginning??
 

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I don’t I think this rationale will hold once this team takes the field.

This isn't going to be a run of the mill bad team that bumbles their way to a 5-12 season.

We won 4 games last year and in the off season we've lost several of the best players from that squad. In free agency we made absolutely zero effort to fill those holes.

We've got big talent deficiencies at every position group. We've got dudes that wouldn't make a lot of other teams rosters at all and here they are projected starters... and not just a couple but all over the place.

Pretty much every person on our coaching staff is in a higher role than they've ever been in their career.

Our best defensive player doesn't want to be here and I wouldn't be shocked if he isn't.

Our best offensive player is projected to miss half the season and if we're 1-8 and our line can't block anyone once he gets "cleared", I don't think they will play him at all.

My guess is a 2 win season with an average margin of defeat in the high teens.
@Ouchie-Z-Clown here is the original post that I have been referencing. I am not sure what you argument is?
 

Phrazbit

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I said Center and DL were possible starters that couldn't make other rosters. But that wasn't the original post. He said "several all over the place". I thought it was hyperbole. Oh hell why am I even debating this with you when you got it all wrong from the beginning??

I honestly think our corners, top to bottom, would struggle to make a lot of rosters, Wilson might latch on as a #3 or 4, but the rest are dudes that would sweat cut day.

The running back situation behind Connor is all flat out awful, and Connor ain't exactly a work horse.

Center and right guard, both positions are likely to be filled by fringe roster guys.

The interior of the defensive line might be the worst position group on the roster.

We have Gardeck the barbarian as a likely starter... that run of sacks he had before he popped his knee was fun but he is a special teamer, has no business starting.
 

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I honestly think our corners, top to bottom, would struggle to make a lot of rosters, Wilson might latch on as a #3 or 4, but the rest are dudes that would sweat cut day.

The running back situation behind Connor is all flat out awful, and Connor ain't exactly a work horse.

Center and right guard, both positions are likely to be filled by fringe roster guys.

The interior of the defensive line might be the worst position group on the roster.

We have Gardeck the barbarian as a likely starter... that run of sacks he had before he popped his knee was fun but he is a special teamer, has no business starting.
Ok I get your train of thought. I disagree on corners, Wilson can play and Hamilton has been in the league for I believe 7 years, so I think they could make several rosters. RG has been in the league for several years LG might be questionable. Conner is the starter so that doesn't go along with the original statement. And I also said the DL is in question, and I agreed on center. It is early we'll see who actually starts the season opener. Thanks for taking the time to set your stance straight.
 

Chopper0080

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Eh, Lawrence isn't bad, and I would assert he's an average starting DT in the NFL. But I wouldn't disagree with the rest, especially Fotu (sorry Leki!) whom I'm pretty sure is the reincarnation of Mao Tosi (plays just like him).
Rashard Lawrence has done nothing to make him an average NFL DT.
 

Chopper0080

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We easily have the worst roster in the NFL. Our only positional player who would be considered as "top 10" at his position is a S and is disgruntled. The degrees of bad which are being defended on this thread is actually fairly comical. Our roster was flawed last year, and most of the best parts of it have left without being replaced by anything more than hope.
 

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We easily have the worst roster in the NFL. Our only positional player who would be considered as "top 10" at his position is a S and is disgruntled. The degrees of bad which are being defended on this thread is actually fairly comical. Our roster was flawed last year, and most of the best parts of it have left without being replaced by anything more than hope.
Indubitably.
 

kerouac9

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Ok I get your train of thought. I disagree on corners, Wilson can play and Hamilton has been in the league for I believe 7 years, so I think they could make several rosters. RG has been in the league for several years LG might be questionable. Conner is the starter so that doesn't go along with the original statement. And I also said the DL is in question, and I agreed on center. It is early we'll see who actually starts the season opener. Thanks for taking the time to set your stance straight.
So besides center, both interior defensive line positions, probably one of the guards and maybe two off-ball linebackers, and our nickel cornerback, what OTHER positions do you expect fringe starters?
 

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The original poster just mentioned young players developing and getting good. Well, the only way we'd have young players coming good, besides draft picks, would be the 1-year wonder deals. Simple math. And, if they come good, they're FA and can walk.

Again, are you just looking for an argument? I'm not interested if you are. I was merely responding to a poster projecting hope for development for players we're probably developing for other teams.

The original poster clearly meant recent draft picks. Guys from the last 2-3 drafts that are under contract through next year.

You invented the 1 year signings thing to throw more shade on the Org.
 

Stout

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The original poster clearly meant recent draft picks. Guys from the last 2-3 drafts that are under contract through next year.

You invented the 1 year signings thing to throw more shade on the Org.
Not so. Go back and quote it or I'm sticking with my reading. I feel rather that you wanted to start an argument with me over something. If I somehow had it wrong, I'll withdraw the comment.
 

Stout

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I think the only position groups that would be in question is the d-line, CB (and Hamilton has been the in the league 7 or so years), and our center. Other than that, I see most other starting players that would make other squads. That is not terrible in a rebuilding year. As far as saying tank I believe that doesn't mean they are not trying to win games, it just that we're going to player the youngers and take our lumps all at once, so hopefully they are all ready to go in 2024. At least that is my hope.
@BritCard No mention of the youngster being draftees. You've been arguing a false stance. I accept your apology.
 

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@BritCard No mention of the youngster being draftees. You've been arguing a false stance. I accept your apology.
Brit is correct in what I was saying. Our one year wonders are not what was meant by "youngsters". The term is used to describe your draft picks, nothing to do with FAs who have been in the league for a few years. So in essence you owe him the apology.
 

Stout

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Brit is correct in what I was saying. Our one year wonders are not what was meant by "youngsters". The term is used to describe your draft picks, nothing to do with FAs who have been in the league for a few years. So in essence you owe him the apology.
In essence I do not. I replied to what was written, not what was implied. Had he clarified with you rather than going off arguing, very well. Instead he set off starting an argument out of nothing because he wanted to. You didn't care enough to reply, but, what, he has to take up the mantle of your cause? Nah.
 
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