2021 2nd round pick is Rondale Moore WR

[Hoodhero]

Man I had to google to see if this the same Sullivan from 2003 who came from Detroit and sure enough he’s back. Let’s bring back Mean Joe Greene while we at it too lol.

His been around since K2 got hired as consultant for team

 

[Shane]

It probably would be worse if not for his 80 yard td against 49ers on Thursday night football if I'm remembering correctly lol

Welllllll umm ya it would be 80 yards and 1 TD worse lol.... :facepalm:

 

[Hoodhero]

Welllllll umm ya it would be 80 yards and 1 TD worse lol.... :facepalm:

I know it's sounds bad lol. It's just that 1 play accounted for nearly 50% of his yardage for rookie season & his only td that yr as well. It also helped that Sheman made a Pat P business decision on that play

 

[BritCard]

I was there for that game. I remember thinking “Finally! That’s what I expected to see out of that guy.” And that was the first and last time I ever had that thought.

I didn't even think he looked good on that TD. I remember thinking "This guy is supposed to run 4.3 and he's being caught by DB's".

He looked like a duck waddling into the EZ.

 

[Chopper0080]

The counter argument to this is how AJ Green has already spoken about how this offense uses his skillset better (more like his early years) with more downfield passing. As if Green is expecting to run deep a bunch.

All receivers should run a variety of routes from a variety of positions. If it's another season of Nuk running out routes on the left, Green running goes on the right and Moore/Kirk running gadgets and 6 yard curls from the slot I'm giving up.

What I know is that Man-Free, Cover 4, and Cover 6 are probably the most commonly used defense today.

Green running vertically creates an issue with these coverages because of his size and ability to win off the line. Vs Cover 4 and 6, with the CB bailing on one side (likely the side green in on) to play deep 1/4, Green can with with a back-shoulder toss if the CB cheats deep, a pass over the top winning with height, and he may still have enough speed to run past a CB if they try to squat on a shorter route.

Hopkins plays a similar game but has a little more versatility to his game at this point of his career. Where he wins vs 6 this is the void between the S cheating over and the CB sitting underneath. Kyler and Hop have a nice rapport on that deep out. Vs a true cover 4, he wins the same way Green can win. Same vs man-free.

Where I believe Moore brings a different element is his speed. Dude can win quick off the line and has enough speed to really split the S over the deep middle. Similar route concepts that Arnold ran but he has more ability to actually pressure the S and keep them from cheating too far outside.

Here, conceptually, is where I believe Green and Moore can able something similar to last year's offense produce more consistent results. Green can still win a couple ways outside that no player on the roster last year could. Fitz had no speed to pressure teams vertically and Kirk couldn't separate outside with his average speed and height. So, Green's ability to separate off the line and still win vertically with his size is a significant upgrade from Kirk outside last year. From the slot, Arnold nor Fitz, had good enough speed to force teams protect the middle of the field as much as they needed to. I know Moore does and the league will find out quick when they try to keep their S wide to cheat vs Hopkins and Green. He can attack either S from anywhere on the inside and can get behind LBs quick.

Where I see three wild-cards/questions with our offense is in Edmonds and Kirk and blocking. Kirk is probably going to be the 7 yard and in guy because of his athletic skill set. He will be the dink and dunk option. Can he be consistent in traffic? 2nd wild-card is can Edmonds shake defenders 1 on 1 in space? Running vs these coverages is huge and with only 5 linemen, the RB has to be able to make guys miss in space. Last, will Kirk and Moore be able to block from the slot? Both are small and Kirk has not shown to be a physical player. This would be where Fitzgerald is a slightly sexier option than Kirk as a slot WR in 10 personnel.

 

[daves]

So...noticed this today:
[Moore #4, Lee #14]

Wonder what kind of deal was made? Andy Lee having 18 years experience giving up #4 to the Rookie?

Fun article:

UPDATE: Coach Kliff Kingsbury confirmed Moore had to pay Lee for the switch. "He does not like spending money at all," Kingsbury said. "So it hurt him. But he was very happy to get the number."
Moore had said earlier in camp he had bought his mother a house as well.

"That's about it," Kingsbury said. "I don't think he's spent another dollar outside of that."

...dave

 

[Hoodhero]

I would trade Moore for Chase right now. Get it done Keim.

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I think thats 4 or 5 drops in a row over last 2 preseason games. Bengals got to be concerned

 

[GatorAZ]

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I think thats 4 or 5 drops in a row over last 2 preseason games. Bengals got to be concerned

I was listening to Peter Schrager on Bill Simmons pod and he said both Chase/Sewell have been awful and those two were who the Bengals decided between. They’re cursed.

Also Andrew Thomas is terrible.

 

[SoonerLou]

I was listening to Peter Schrager on Bill Simmons pod and he said both Chase/Sewell have been awful and those two were who the Bengals decided between. They’re cursed.

Also Andrew Thomas is terrible.

Keim's top rated OT that year

 

[Chopper0080]

Keim's top rated OT that year

I had not heard that and is gross if true.

 

[GatorAZ]

Keim's top rated OT that year

Luck > skill

 

[SoonerLou]

I had not heard that and is gross if true.

TBF he wasnt the only one.

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Still glad things worked out. Well..we'll see how they use Simmons.

 

[cardsfanmd]

It probably would be worse if not for his 80 yard td against 49ers on Thursday night football if I'm remembering correctly lol

On the flip side, it would be higher if Murray had seen him the 5-10 times he was wide open going deep over the past two years…

 

[Chopper0080]

TBF he wasnt the only one.

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Still glad things worked out. Well..we'll see how they use Simmons.

Crazy that as an educated fan I could see that Thomas was not in the convo with Wills and Wirfs and yet industry professionals could not. I mean, I can get things wrong, but sometimes flaws are just very clear.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Crazy that as an educated fan I could see that Thomas was not in the convo with Wills and Wirfs and yet industry professionals could not. I mean, I can get things wrong, but sometimes flaws are just very clear.

Well personnel guys have seen 1000's of prospects first hand and on film and they know many instances of guys improving and fixes certain deficiencies.

Thomas has poor feet and doesn't fan out quick enough in his pass sets. That is what I saw when I watched film of him. His issues are absolutely correctable, but it's a huge risk to throw him out at left tackle early in his career.

 

[football karma]

Luck > skill

wayyyyy more luck than skill in the NFL draft than any GM or owner wants to admit

i think the fact that Thomas played LT for multiple seasons ( vs Wills, Wirfs at RT) or Becton (1 season) made him appear to be lower risk

 

[ajcardfan]

Well personnel guys have seen 1000's of prospects first hand and on film and they know many instances of guys improving and fixes certain deficiencies.

Thomas has poor feet and doesn't fan out quick enough in his pass sets. That is what I saw when I watched film of him. His issues are absolutely correctable, but it's a huge risk to throw him out at left tackle early in his career.

Reddick completely abused and humiliated him. He was slow and his footwork was bad.

 

[juza76]

Thomas their top tackle?
Something wrong with their draft boards
They are very often wrong, in another field they should search for a different work

 

[Chopper0080]

Well personnel guys have seen 1000's of prospects first hand and on film and they know many instances of guys improving and fixes certain deficiencies.

Thomas has poor feet and doesn't fan out quick enough in his pass sets. That is what I saw when I watched film of him. His issues are absolutely correctable, but it's a huge risk to throw him out at left tackle early in his career.

I guess I equate foot quickness with athleticism and I don't believe offensive linemen get more athletic. I am not going to throw Thomas out as a prospect, but in my experience slow footed OTs need to be very efficient with their movements and technically sound to be able to survive on the edge. It can take a ton of work to get to that level of proficiency.

Here is where I landed on the class. Thomas need the most work outside of Becton but did not have Becton's freakish size. Wills was the most technically sound one of the group. Wirfs was the best overall athlete. Becton had the highest ceiling because he moved well and had rare size but was very raw.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I guess I equate foot quickness with athleticism and I don't believe offensive linemen get more athletic. I am not going to throw Thomas out as a prospect, but in my experience slow footed OTs need to be very efficient with their movements and technically sound to be able to survive on the edge. It can take a ton of work to get to that level of proficiency.

Here is where I landed on the class. Thomas need the most work outside of Becton but did not have Becton's freakish size. Wills was the most technically sound one of the group. Wirfs was the best overall athlete. Becton had the highest ceiling because he moved well and had rare size but was very raw.

His athletic numbers show that he is capable though. Scouts don't see players as finished products, and if you only drafted finished products you'd get a team of Keesean Johnsons.

Thomas could use a rework on his pass sets, so it's really up to him to do the work in the offseason to get better. I know the contention that Thomas advocates would state was that he played well against SEC competition, but they weren't looking at his pass sets in a vacuum and understanding how that would project in the NFL.

I know you are bullish on Wirfs, but I think Becton is going to be a top 3 LT in the near future. Wirfs is certainly going to be a great player too, but I still think LT has more value than RT.

 

[WakeForestCard]

It usually doesn't happen to me with rookies (outside of Kyler when we drafted him) but I am absolutely giddy to watch Rondale play. I've probably bumped my expectations for him to unattainable levels but I'm really excited to see what he can do on the field.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

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I think thats 4 or 5 drops in a row over last 2 preseason games. Bengals got to be concerned

Are you saying you wouldn't trade Moore for Chase??

 

[Hoodhero]

Are you saying you wouldn't trade Moore for Chase??

I'm conflicted tbh. If Bengals did want to trade that's basically confirming Chase got major issues

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I was joking and talking from a Cards perspective.
No way the Bengals do that trade.

 

[Hoodhero]

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