2023-24 Around the NBA Thread

[elindholm]

I'm not a believer in Milwaukee being a great team.

Boston however I am legit scared of.

I feel quite confident saying that the Suns will not lose to either Milwaukee or Boston in the playoffs. This team is a pretender and the only surprise is how quickly that became clear.

 

[Proximo]

I feel quite confident saying that the Suns will not lose to either Milwaukee or Boston in the playoffs. This team is a pretender and the only surprise is how quickly that became clear.

Are you saying you have given up on the Suns already when the big 3 have not even played a game together yet?

I understand being skeptical about our ability to stay healthy - but it is defeatist to the extreme to think the injuries suffered so far somehow indicate certain doom.

 

[elindholm]

Are you saying you have given up on the Suns already when the big 3 have not even played a game together yet?

I understand being skeptical about our ability to stay healthy - but it is defeatist to the extreme to think the injuries suffered so far somehow indicate certain doom.

Oh, not "certain doom," but they aren't contenders. We're back to 50-and-fade, for as long as the run can last.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh, not "certain doom," but they aren't contenders. We're back to 50-and-fade, for as long as the run can last.

So, I can see someone believing that because of injuries (and am starting to lean the same way), but in best case scenario where everyone is healthy, how have you made up your mind about what this team already is considering they’ve played 3 of 4 games without their best player and MVP candidate, not to mention their 3rd best player?

I can see a lean there because of a lack of beef, or maybe the mental fragility of our 2nd superstar, the lack of beef really being this team’s Achilles heel, but if they’re healthy, I still haven’t seen enough in three games to tell me they’ve got no shot to win the title.

 

[95pro]

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The Pelicans seasons relies on Zion's knees. Spur and Twolves stole one. Suns trying to figure things out. Grizz...

 

[Raindog]

Mavericks haven't exactly been playing a murderers row of opponents either - SA and Mem on the road, and Brooklyn and Chicago at home.

 

[Proximo]

Oh, not "certain doom," but they aren't contenders. We're back to 50-and-fade, for as long as the run can last.

Well, I completely disagree.

This team is an upgraded team from last year - and if we just had an Eric Gordon and Grayson Allen let alone a Beal - that team would have beat Denver IMO.

If healthy I absolutely think we are the best in the West.

Also I think just getting rid of Monty is going to pay big dividends in the playoffs.

 

[Proximo]

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The Pelicans seasons relies on Zion's knees. Spur and Twolves stole one. Suns trying to figure things out. Grizz...

Do you really think this means anything at this point? I don't think people understand how long it takes teams to gel together especially with a lot of roster turnover.

Also 3pt shooting is the biggest factor in wins and loses at this point, just because one team has a couple hot shooting nights they can win games they won't most nights. Standings don't start to mean much until we are 30 games in or so.

 

[Hoop Head]

I guess that's the upside of the in season tournament, when it's nearing it's end is when we should start seeing the cream rising to the top. I believe it ends in the middle of December, which is about 2 months into the season.

 

[elindholm]

So, I can see someone believing that because of injuries (and am starting to lean the same way), but in best case scenario where everyone is healthy, how have you made up your mind about what this team already is considering they’ve played 3 of 4 games without their best player and MVP candidate, not to mention their 3rd best player?

I can see a lean there because of a lack of beef, or maybe the mental fragility of our 2nd superstar, the lack of beef really being this team’s Achilles heel, but if they’re healthy, I still haven’t seen enough in three games to tell me they’ve got no shot to win the title.

To me there's a pretty big gap between "could theoretically win the title if everything goes perfectly" and "contender." I put the Suns' chances at 5% max. That's a 50-and-fade team hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, not a contender.

 

[Proximo]

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This dude is not a team player, no team is winning with him on it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

To me there's a pretty big gap between "could theoretically win the title if everything goes perfectly" and "contender." I put the Suns' chances at 5% max. That's a 50-and-fade team hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, not a contender.

Okay… again, are you talking about injuries or something else glaringly missing from this team if they’re healthy?

 

[elindholm]

Okay… again, are you talking about injuries or something else glaringly missing from this team if they’re healthy?

Well it's both. First of all, we agree that it's unlikely that they'll be healthy. Then, even if they are healthy, it's a thin roster. The first four games have shown us that no one beyond the big three has any creative skills to speak of. To put it another way, if a soon-to-be-35-year-old Eric Gordon (his birthday is December 25) is your fifth- or sixth-best player, you have major question marks.

And finally, even if they are healthy and the bench takes a step forward, I don't see a championship-caliber #1 on the team. Booker is the closest, but he's still a notch below, and Durant clearly isn't the player the Suns thought they were getting. If we're playing the "if the stars align" game, the Suns are behind Denver for sure, probably the Lakers, and maybe the Clippers. So basically the Suns have to hope that they get lucky and hit their ceiling while the other West powers struggle.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well it's both. First of all, we agree that it's unlikely that they'll be healthy. Then, even if they are healthy, it's a thin roster. The first four games have shown us that no one beyond the big three has any creative skills to speak of. To put it another way, if a soon-to-be-35-year-old Eric Gordon (his birthday is December 25) is your fifth- or sixth-best player, you have major question marks.

This is where we disagree. I know you’ve already planted your flag in the sand on Gordon as busy after Game 3, but he’s averaging 16 ppg, on 45/33 shooting while having to play out of position. He has creative skills to get his own shot, as does Allen. Especially if they’re slotted where they would be as guys off the bench with Beal/Durant/Booker. They’re not incredible playmakers but as your 4th and 5th guys they are also nowhere close to “no creative skills to speak of.”

And finally, even if they are healthy and the bench takes a step forward, I don't see a championship-caliber #1 on the team. Booker is the closest, but he's still a notch below, and Durant clearly isn't the player the Suns thought they were getting. If we're playing the "if the stars align" game, the Suns are behind Denver for sure, probably the Lakers, and maybe the Clippers. So basically the Suns have to hope that they get lucky and hit their ceiling while the other West powers struggle.

I think this is the stronger argument. As much as I love Booker and he makes us a totally different team than the one currently on the court, we’ve also seen three consecutive playoffs where he had his worst games in elimination games, with two of them coming on our home court in absolutely embarassing fashion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I also think we’re tissue paper soft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree with you but the assist numbers seem off.

Russ - 7.6
Harden - 10.7*
PG - 5.1
Kawhi - 3.9

Harden led the league last year. The idea they're too selfish doesn't make sense. Russ and Harden have 5 assist titles between them.

The problem I see is who takes the last shot. Harden will demand it, Russ and PG will want it, and Leonard should be the one taking it but the least likely to speak up. It's going to be interesting to see how things shake out.

Those were just their latest averages.

 

[leclerc]

To me there's a pretty big gap between "could theoretically win the title if everything goes perfectly" and "contender." I put the Suns' chances at 5% max. That's a 50-and-fade team hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, not a contender.

You might be right. Let's check back in after 20 games.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

So, I can see someone believing that because of injuries (and am starting to lean the same way), but in best case scenario where everyone is healthy, how have you made up your mind about what this team already is considering they’ve played 3 of 4 games without their best player and MVP candidate, not to mention their 3rd best player?

I can see a lean there because of a lack of beef, or maybe the mental fragility of our 2nd superstar, the lack of beef really being this team’s Achilles heel, but if they’re healthy, I still haven’t seen enough in three games to tell me they’ve got no shot to win the title.

We won't see this team in full stride until at least 20-30 games into the season. So many new players, new system and having main story players on the sideline at the start. Once players start to be in the right places and the teammates have trust in each other to make the right reads and rotations than we will know who this team is.

 

[gimpy]

I think I know who this team is. They are 2-3, and can't play defense or beat the Spurs.


Prove me wrong, Vogel and Suns.

 

[Russ Smith]

Either I don't know the rule or the refs just made a HORRIBLE call to give the Warriors the win over OKC. 139 all, Curry drives and makes a spectacular flip shot over Holmgren to win it. Except Draymond thinking the ball was coming out went up for a tip and hit the rim with his right hand. The refs called basket interference. After an eternity where everyone assumed it's to set the remaining clock, they said the call is overturned it's not basket interference because his touch of the rim didn't impact the ball going in or not?

Never seen that call in my life. Even Draymond was apologizing to Curry for ruining his game winner.

Again either I don't know the rule anymore or they blew that one.

OKC is legit, they have to play better defense but my goodness 139 points without SGA tonight. Giddy, Dort, both Williams, Joe were all great and man is Chet going to be a beast.

 

[Dback Jon]

I just watch the video of the play. Yes that was basket, interference

More special treatment for Golden State

 

[Hoop Head]

Either I don't know the rule or the refs just made a HORRIBLE call to give the Warriors the win over OKC. 139 all, Curry drives and makes a spectacular flip shot over Holmgren to win it. Except Draymond thinking the ball was coming out went up for a tip and hit the rim with his right hand. The refs called basket interference. After an eternity where everyone assumed it's to set the remaining clock, they said the call is overturned it's not basket interference because his touch of the rim didn't impact the ball going in or not?

Never seen that call in my life. Even Draymond was apologizing to Curry for ruining his game winner.

Again either I don't know the rule anymore or they blew that one.

OKC is legit, they have to play better defense but my goodness 139 points without SGA tonight. Giddy, Dort, both Williams, Joe were all great and man is Chet going to be a beast.

In that situation they should go the safest route, which is OT and no basket. Never heard of basket interference waved off before.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[Raindog]

Either I don't know the rule or the refs just made a HORRIBLE call to give the Warriors the win over OKC. 139 all, Curry drives and makes a spectacular flip shot over Holmgren to win it. Except Draymond thinking the ball was coming out went up for a tip and hit the rim with his right hand. The refs called basket interference. After an eternity where everyone assumed it's to set the remaining clock, they said the call is overturned it's not basket interference because his touch of the rim didn't impact the ball going in or not?

Never seen that call in my life. Even Draymond was apologizing to Curry for ruining his game winner.

Again either I don't know the rule anymore or they blew that one.

OKC is legit, they have to play better defense but my goodness 139 points without SGA tonight. Giddy, Dort, both Williams, Joe were all great and man is Chet going to be a beast.

NBA refs have literally just started making up their own rules on the fly the last few years. Pretty soon they'll be overturning traveling, ball out of bounds, star players clobbering non-star players with folding chairs, etc. because they "didn't impact the play." Literal WWE poo.

 

[Phrazbit]

I am not a fan of Julius Randle... I think he is a toxic clown and that his teammates, clearly, can hardly stand him.

But even for him, this is an awful look:

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He is mad about not getting the ball in a game where he is 5-20 from the field (he's shooting under 30% on the season so far) so he casually observes the most important defensive play of the game, he doesn't even pretend to care as a teammate a few feet away is trying to cover 2 guys, just watches as Hart eats a screen and makes no effort to help... while marking no one.

If I made a team of "All NBA stat padding losers", he'd be the starting power forward.