2023 draft trade in hindsight

[oaken1]

Yes please consider the multiverse carefully when evaluating Paris Johnson.

snark all you want but its the nature of the position. You only really notice the blindside protection when it fails and Paris has gone unnoticed.

 

[Chopper0080]

The better Paris Johnson plays the less "impact" we see from him.
His primary job is to keep bad things from happening.

dude may have already saved Kyler from 10 separate career ending injuries..we will just never know.

I disagree. The bar is set by Paris Johnson vs league average LTs. Paris might be slightly above league average. Will Anderson is significantly above league average at his position.

 

[Chopper0080]

And another place I disagree is your statement about a lack of notice. I notice Tret Williams shutting down players. I notice Penei Sewell dominating players. I notice Tristan Wirfs.

I think where you missing is that average OTs don't get noticed. They aren't glaringly good or bad. Good and bad OTs 100% do get noticed.

 

[oaken1]

And another place I disagree is your statement about a lack of notice. I notice Tret Williams shutting down players. I notice Penei Sewell dominating players. I notice Tristan Wirfs.

I think where you missing is that average OTs don't get noticed. They glaringly good or bad. Good and bad OTs 100% do get noticed.

I notice Paris shutting down players too...and I notice our quarterback not getting blindsided in 1.2 seconds... but the "Impact" of that is tough to measure. Because its hard to place a value on something that doesnt happen.
But there is a reason why 20million dollar contracts hit the LT position before they hit the edge position.

everybody wants "flashy" and seeing a good edge rusher blow past a guy and flatten the QB is exciting and can be game changing. I agree.
But a solid OT that keeps that from happening is more valuable to a team...for the very basic reason that it keeps your quarterback on the field.

 

[Rohinaz]

I disagree. The bar is set by Paris Johnson vs league average LTs. Paris might be slightly above league average. Will Anderson is significantly above league average at his position.

Will Anderson had a big jump in his 2nd year and so did PJJ moving to LT and playing extremely well. From a position standpoint, Garrett Williams outperformed both. With Ojulari and Robinson healthy (hopefully) this trade could be lopsided in the cards favor by the end of the year.
Not to mention Michael Wilson (Average so far), Dante Stills (great pick) and Elijah Jones (injured)

 

[kerouac9]

Garrett Williams outperformed both

Bro he couldn’t take ST5’s job

 

[Chopper0080]

I notice Paris shutting down players too...and I notice our quarterback not getting blindsided in 1.2 seconds... but the "Impact" of that is tough to measure. Because its hard to place a value on something that doesnt happen.
But there is a reason why 20million dollar contracts hit the LT position before they hit the edge position.

everybody wants "flashy" and seeing a good edge rusher blow past a guy and flatten the QB is exciting and can be game changing. I agree.
But a solid OT that keeps that from happening is more valuable to a team...for the very basic reason that it keeps your quarterback on the field.

Paris allowed 4 sacks and 7 penalties in 2024. Neither of those are dominant stats.

And agree, a solid OT does have value, but it is still only a solid player.

Preferring a C+ OT to a B+ EDGE rusher is just something I don't agree with.

 

[BACH]

Bro he couldn’t take ST5’s job

Correct! He couldn’t take Budda’s job either. He is playing a different position

 

[BACH]

I disagree. The bar is set by Paris Johnson vs league average LTs. Paris might be slightly above league average. Will Anderson is significantly above league average at his position.

Not according to metrics.

Just because PJJ is more balanced in his play doesn’t mean he is a worse player. PJJ is just below the best as an overall OT.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not according to metrics.

Just because PJJ is more balanced in his play doesn’t mean he is a worse player. PJJ is just below the best as an overall OT.

Based on what? Penalties? No. Sacks allowed? No. Cardinals 7-7 with him. 1-2 without.

If you are saying film analysis by people who don’t know the blocking assignments of each play is “metrics”, it’s not.

 

[BACH]

Based on what? Penalties? No. Sacks allowed? No. Cardinals 7-7 with him. 1-2 without.

If you are saying film analysis by people who don’t know the blocking assignments of each play is “metrics”, it’s not.

How about the fact that he is good in the run game too?

Tunsil would be a top 3 OT if only using your comp. Too bad that he’s a liability in the run game.

Love the fact that you have zero metrics to present yourself, yet attack metrics that counter your opinion

Æ

 

[Chopper0080]

How about the fact that he is good in the run game too?

Tunsil would be a top 3 OT if only using your comp. Too bad that he’s a liability in the run game.

Love the fact that you have zero metrics to present yourself, yet attack metrics that counter your opinion

Æ

I said Paris is a slightly above average LT. The argument that he is better than that is on the person claiming he is better than that. He wouldn’t be slightly above average if I wasn’t taking into his run blocking into account. His penalties and sacks allowed are below league average.

 

[Chopper0080]

The top end you could argue in terms of LT ranks in the league is that Paris is between 11-14.

 

[BACH]

I said Paris is a slightly above average LT. The argument that he is better than that is on the person claiming he is better than that. He wouldn’t be slightly above average if I wasn’t taking into his run blocking into account. His penalties and sacks allowed are below league average.

And you have have every right to have your opinion.

But he still ranks #11 out of 64. That’s top 20%

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That

And you have have every right to have your opinion.

But he still ranks #11 out of 64. That’s top 20%

would be a B- to a B. He rated him a C+. Seems like y’all are quibbling.

 

[BACH]

That

would be a B- to a B. He rated him a C+. Seems like y’all are quibbling.

Actually not. Because it’s quite important. The whole premise for this discussion is Anderson vs. PJJ.
Both are buttom of the top 20% at a top 3 position.

Anderson is #9 at Edge and PJJ is #11 at OT. Chopper is arguing that there is a huge difference between the two.

I do not agree and I have metrics to support it. He doesn’t

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actually not. Because it’s quite important. The whole premise for this discussion is Anderson vs. PJJ.
Both are buttom of the top 20% at a top 3 position.

Anderson is #9 at Edge and PJJ is #11 at OT. Chopper is arguing that there is a huge difference between the two.

I do not agree and I have metrics to support it. He doesn’t

Actually that gives Anderson a B to B+ compared to PJJ’s B- to B. It’s essentially the difference of a full + or - using traditional U.S. grading system. Of course I don’t know what ranking you’re using to arrive on #9 and #11, so it all may be a moot point if those rankings are unreliable or inaccurate.

I was more referencing y’all arguing over how to identify PJJ’s value. B- or C+ is a bit of quibbling.

 

[kerouac9]

Not according to metrics.

Just because PJJ is more balanced in his play doesn’t mean he is a worse player. PJJ is just below the best as an overall OT.

FAKE metrics

 

[BACH]

FAKE metrics

Easy. Then show your.

Not exact, but best available metrics based on facts

>

Random guy posting from his mom’s basement offering ZERO tangible facts

 

[Rohinaz]

Bro he couldn’t take ST5’s job

Well, they dont play the same position. but PFF had williams as the 3rd highest graded CB in the nfl, so....

 

[Krangodnzr]

I said Paris is a slightly above average LT. The argument that he is better than that is on the person claiming he is better than that. He wouldn’t be slightly above average if I wasn’t taking into his run blocking into account. His penalties and sacks allowed are below league average.

I'd say Paris is straight up above average, with more ceiling to become a near elite tackle. If Darius Robinson becomes a good player, this trade is a slam dunk for the Cardinals because Garrett Williams is already an elite nickel.