2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, as a Pennsylvania resident, I can confirm that our fans are awful and beyond toxic.

They’re passionate, but you underperform and they’ll murder you.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just don't think it would have mattered. Booker would have been doubled non-stop and the result would have been the same, if not worse.
As another poster pointed out earlier in the thread, the Suns had to have a second star to go anywhere. I love Bridges- easily my favorite player in the league, but he is not a legitimate second option, CP3 was good enough to do this job reasonably well two years ago, but he fell off the cliff rapidly. Without a second star, this team was way too easy to stop. No amount of depth was going to change that.

In regard to Bridges, a rose by any other name is still a rose. Yes, I think Bridges had crossed over to being a star.

I'd rather have Bridges, Cam Johnson, a Crowder/Saric trade, 4 unprotected first round picks and a swap for a 35 year old Durant.

IMO, the Durant trade was a new owner wanting to make a splash. Let's hope James Jones has a plan to turn lemons into lemonade.

I don't think adding an aging star was the answer but I'm 100% behind Durant now that the trade has been made.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Philly has a better fan base? Now I’ve heard everything. I’ve never heard any pundit say anything other than the suns enjoy one of the best fanbases in the nba. We throw parades for being runners up. Think Philly does that? No. They spit in the team for that. Cmon man, it feels like you’re starting to make things up to support your arguments. First bridges doesn’t disappear and now the fan base thing. You have legitimate arguments to the point you don’t need to do that.

I'm no expert by any means but I had just looked at the numbers, saw that Philly was 2nd in attendance and that we were 24th. To me, that's a big part of what makes a fan base better. Sure, I've heard all the "boo Santa Clause" jokes but when I've watched them play they usually seemed to be rabid fans supporting their team (or booing their team for poor effort), not cheering for the Lakers like our fans do. So, even if I'm focusing on the wrong things, I'm clearly not just making things up.

 

[Mainstreet]

The hypothetical trade of value of Murray vs Bridges is a diversion to take one's eye off the bouncing ball.

I've already answered the Suns didn't have anyone to push them over the top without both Paul and Ayton yet the Suns would have been a lot better going forward last season without making the Durant trade. I feel the same going forward.

Now the Suns are almost forced to trade Ayton and Paul. I'm hoping it pays off for the Suns sake. Last season's roster was only four players deep.

 

[BirdGangThing]

If we want to compete with Denver we must find the best defensive Center in all the land. Just defense and rebounds. I don't even care if he can score - if he can do all 3 we probably won't have a shot at landing him - give me a measley 10-15pts per game with offensive put backs/easy buckets and we're good

 

[overseascardfan]

I don't think there is going to be a big market for a CP3 trade. The only team I could see interested is the LAL and they may just wait and see if PHX is bluffing about picking up the $30M option. I know Pelinka takes a lot of crap but he was able to spin Westbrook's contract into D'Lo, Vanderbilt & Beasley, I doubt Jones can work that magic with the CP3 situation. I don't think SA, CHI or HOU have any interest in Paul despite rumors popping up.

Unless the LAL are going to help PHX out and do a S&T swap of D'Lo for CP3 I think PHX needs to waive and stretch him so they can pick up the full MLE and BAE and hope KD and Book can recruit some guys who can help next year.

As for Ayton, my dream scenario would be a trade to ATL for Okongwu, Bey & Bogdanovic but realistically they may just end up with either Collins or Capela. I still would not want Myles Turner, dude is still injury prone and is a subpar rebounder for a guy his size. Obviously, I don't think we would see a Ayton trade until the draft and after a new coach (maybe GM) are hired. This draft is a 2 player draft, I don't think Brandon Miller and the G League guys are franchise guys like Scoot and Wemby. Maybe that opens up the market for DA.

Keep an eye on D'Lo, obviously his close friendship with Book is well documented. So playing in PHX may appeal to both of them even though signing with MIN to play with his other buddy , KAT didn't work out so well.

 

[Mainstreet]

If we want to compete with Denver we must find the best defensive Center in all the land. Just defense and rebounds. I don't even care if he can score - if he can do all 3 we probably won't have a shot at landing him - give me a measley 10-15pts per game with offensive put backs/easy buckets and we're good

Either that or run multiple defensive centers at Jokic. The Suns were like soft butter in the middle.

Some quality depth at power forward might help even more.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The hypothetical trade of value of Murray vs Bridges is a diversion to take one's eye off the bouncing ball.

I've already answered the Suns didn't have anyone to push them over the top without both Paul and Ayton yet the Suns would have been a lot better going forward last season without making the Durant trade. I feel the same going forward.

Now the Suns are almost forced to trade Ayton and Paul. I'm hoping it pays off for the Suns sake. Last season's roster was only four players deep.

The suns would have to trade them even if the trade hadn’t happened. Do you believe th championship window was still open with that core?!?

 

[BirdGangThing]

Either that or run multiple defensive centers at Jokic. The Suns were like soft butter in the middle.

Some quality depth at power forward might help even more.

Agreed, multiple bigs on the court at the same time

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think there is going to be a big market for a CP3 trade. The only team I could see interested is the LAL and they may just wait and see if PHX is bluffing about picking up the $30M option. I know Pelinka takes a lot of crap but he was able to spin Westbrook's contract into D'Lo, Vanderbilt & Beasley, I doubt Jones can work that magic with the CP3 situation. I don't think SA, CHI or HOU have any interest in Paul despite rumors popping up.

Unless the LAL are going to help PHX out and do a S&T swap of D'Lo for CP3 I think PHX needs to waive and stretch him so they can pick up the full MLE and BAE and hope KD and Book can recruit some guys who can help next year.

As for Ayton, my dream scenario would be a trade to ATL for Okongwu, Bey & Bogdanovic but realistically they may just end up with either Collins or Capela. I still would not want Myles Turner, dude is still injury prone and is a subpar rebounder for a guy his size. Obviously, I don't think we would see a Ayton trade until the draft and after a new coach (maybe GM) are hired. This draft is a 2 player draft, I don't think Brandon Miller and the G League guys are franchise guys like Scoot and Wemby. Maybe that opens up the market for DA.

Keep an eye on D'Lo, obviously his close friendship with Book is well documented. So playing in PHX may appeal to both of them even though signing with MIN to play with his other buddy , KAT didn't work out so well.

I think you’re wrong on Miller. Murder aside, that guy has star written all over him.

 

[Yuma]

In regard to Bridges, a rose by any other name is still a rose. Yes, I think Bridges had crossed over to being a star.

I'd rather have Bridges, Cam Johnson, a Crowder/Saric trade, 4 unprotected first round picks and a swap for a 35 year old Durant.

IMO, the Durant trade was a new owner wanting to make a splash. Let's hope James Jones has a plan to turn lemons into lemonade.

I don't think adding an aging star was the answer but I'm 100% behind Durant now that the trade has been made.

I am biased. Like Booker, KD is one of my favorite players to watch ever. I still think over the next three years I take my chances on Booker and KD combo to rebuild the team around. We need some bigs and PGs. Supposedly easier to find than talented SG' and scoring forwards. That is, according to the "experts."

 

[Phrazbit]

I think you’re wrong on Miller. Murder aside, that guy has star written all over him.

His total faceplant in the tourny was... alarming.

He averaged 9 points per game, going 8-41 from the field and 3-19 from 3.

That, combined with the whole 'murder' thing, I would really struggle to take him with a high pick.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm no expert by any means but I had just looked at the numbers, saw that Philly was 2nd in attendance and that we were 24th. To me, that's a big part of what makes a fan base better. Sure, I've heard all the "boo Santa Clause" jokes but when I've watched them play they usually seemed to be rabid fans supporting their team (or booing their team for poor effort), not cheering for the Lakers like our fans do. So, even if I'm focusing on the wrong things, I'm clearly not just making things up.

We sold out every game, our arena just has a small capacity.

 

[Phrazbit]

It’s not that simple. Jokic is better than Booker. Murray is better than bridges. And Ayton/porter are a wash with a lean towards Ayton. And Gordon would bully the crap outta cam Johnson. That team would have still needed another star from somewhere.

I think the pre-trade Suns were a far better match up against Denver. It's not about the 1 on 1 situations. Prior to the trade we were a great 3 point shooting team and one of the best in the NBA at defending the 3... after the trade we were far worse at both. Also, the depth was ruined. Denver shoots 3s for days and is a poor defensive team, but we couldn't make them pay for their bad team defense because our offense operated at a snails pace, didn't take threes and largely played isolation.

The parts simply fit together better before the trade.

Our offense was such a grind and so slow we couldn't put runs on anyone. We had to slug out points in mid range and play great defense to build a lead and it would all fly out the window in the span of a few minutes if the opposition strung together some threes. It was the same in the Clippers series, we couldn't build big leads and they just hung around. We were able to grind out wins at the end but nothing was comfortable.

The Lakers though, they would be a tough match up. They don't shoot the 3 all that well, they play defense and attack the paint and the refs drool all over them. That would have been a rough match up for us without another big star.

Overall though, I don't think there is any question that the Suns were a better and far more balanced team before the trade.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We sold out every game, our arena just has a small capacity.

That's good to know but I saw a lot of empty seats for some of those games. Although maybe that happens everywhere. Anyway, we seem to get a lot of Lakers, Clippers, Warriors, T-Wolves, Bucks and Bulls fans when we host one of those cities. I haven't noticed that same thing happening for the Eastern teams so I'd tend to rank most Eastern fanbases above ours.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's good to know but I saw a lot of empty seats for some of those games. Although maybe that happens everywhere. Anyway, we seem to get a lot of Lakers, Clippers, Warriors, T-Wolves, Bucks and Bulls fans when we host one of those cities. I haven't noticed that same thing happening for the Eastern teams so I'd tend to rank most Eastern fanbases above ours.

There were a few games during that awful stretch in December where I suspect the corporate crowd arrived really late and left early, but other than that, the place was packed. I was at just under half of them.

 

[overseascardfan]

I think you’re wrong on Miller. Murder aside, that guy has star written all over him.

Had a bad NCAA tournament (shooting wise), stars usually shine on big stage and carry their teams. I'd lump Miller on same tier as Leonard Miller & the Thompson twins just below Scoot and Wemby.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the pre-trade Suns were a far better match up against Denver. It's not about the 1 on 1 situations. Prior to the trade we were a great 3 point shooting team and one of the best in the NBA at defending the 3... after the trade we were far worse at both. Also, the depth was ruined. Denver shoots 3s for days and is a poor defensive team, but we couldn't make them pay for their bad team defense because our offense operated at a snails pace, didn't take threes and largely played isolation.

The parts simply fit together better before the trade.

Our offense was such a grind and so slow we couldn't put runs on anyone. We had to slug out points in mid range and play great defense to build a lead and it would all fly out the window in the span of a few minutes if the opposition strung together some threes. It was the same in the Clippers series, we couldn't build big leads and they just hung around. We were able to grind out wins at the end but nothing was comfortable.

The Lakers though, they would be a tough match up. They don't shoot the 3 all that well, they play defense and attack the paint and the refs drool all over them. That would have been a rough match up for us without another big star.

Overall though, I don't think there is any question that the Suns were a better and far more balanced team before the trade.

Not sure I agree with your outcomes here. It would’ve been a different series but I think the outcome the same. All that space KD’s presence provided book would’ve been gone. Particularly when bridges went El foldo as is his history in the playoffs. So they would’ve just blitzed book, which we know nullifies the offense when Paul isn’t on and Ayton is MIA (both of which were true). And bridges and cam are subpar rebounders while KD was doing good work on the boards. We would’ve gotten absolutely crucified on the boards by a full strength nuggets.

And I think there’s absolutely a question which team was better. Seems everyone forgets the suns were like undefeated with KD prior to the playoffs (which admittedly was part fools gold, but I think part of all regular seasons are part fools golf - see last years 64 win team that went out like a punk).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's good to know but I saw a lot of empty seats for some of those games. Although maybe that happens everywhere. Anyway, we seem to get a lot of Lakers, Clippers, Warriors, T-Wolves, Bucks and Bulls fans when we host one of those cities. I haven't noticed that same thing happening for the Eastern teams so I'd tend to rank most Eastern fanbases above ours.

That’s a mistake when it comes to the suns. Other az teams, yes. Suns, no.

 

[Phrazbit]

Not sure I agree with your outcomes here. It would’ve been a different series but I think the outcome the same. All that space KD’s presence provided book would’ve been gone. Particularly when bridges went El foldo as is his history in the playoffs. So they would’ve just blitzed book, which we know nullifies the offense when Paul isn’t on and Ayton is MIA (both of which were true). And bridges and cam are subpar rebounders while KD was doing good work on the boards. We would’ve gotten absolutely crucified on the boards by a full strength nuggets.

And I think there’s absolutely a question which team was better. Seems everyone forgets the suns were like undefeated with KD prior to the playoffs (which admittedly was part fools gold, but I think part of all regular seasons are part fools golf - see last years 64 win team that went out like a punk).

We went 8-0 with KD and the biggest win was beating a Dallas team, who couldn't beat anyone, at the buzzer. Other than that we beat bottom feeders and teams resting virtually all their starters... and struggled to beat them in the process.

And Denver was throwing doubles at Booker anyway, he was dribbling through them because Denver is a bad defensive team, especially their guards.

I think we would have matched up better against Denver... for sure, I don't know if we beat them, but our lack of shooting and reliance on ISO made us very predictable.

Worth noting... we probably wouldn't have even played Denver until the conference finals. We were finally healthy going into the trade deadline, if we hadn't done the trade we'd likely have leap frogged the Kings for 3rd.

 

[Covert Rain]

Not sure I agree with your outcomes here. It would’ve been a different series but I think the outcome the same. All that space KD’s presence provided book would’ve been gone. Particularly when bridges went El foldo as is his history in the playoffs. So they would’ve just blitzed book, which we know nullifies the offense when Paul isn’t on and Ayton is MIA (both of which were true). And bridges and cam are subpar rebounders while KD was doing good work on the boards. We would’ve gotten absolutely crucified on the boards by a full strength nuggets.

And I think there’s absolutely a question which team was better. Seems everyone forgets the suns were like undefeated with KD prior to the playoffs (which admittedly was part fools gold, but I think part of all regular seasons are part fools golf - see last years 64 win team that went out like a punk).

This. The Book we got to see in this playoff (minus the closing fade) doesn't happen without KD and we definitly don't get toe the FT line as much. We also don't have the best scoring duo in the playoffs either.

 

[Hoop Head]

This. The Book we got to see in this playoff (minus the closing fade) doesn't happen without KD and we definitly don't get toe the FT line as much. We also don't have the best scoring duo in the playoffs either.

Who cares about the best scoring duo in the postseason when your team, and that duo, is at home while the postseason continues? They're at home because a duo alone wins nothing, it takes a whole team. I don't mean a complete 15 man roster but a legit 7-8 man rotation and the Suns had 4 in any given game. KD was inefficient, accounting for half of our turnovers in the Denver series on his own and that's bad considering the scrubs we rolled out. He should have been attacking but when he did, he was off. He's the only one who benefited from foul calls also, no one else had their FT attempts increased in a measurable manner, some even shot considerably less like Book.

There's no way to say we don't see this Booker without KD either. He's 26 years old. A lot of us said this is who he could be and had been saying that before the trade. This is his 3rd postseason, 3rd! We had such a small sample size no one could say who he was definitively one way or the other before this year. One thing is certain though, he's someone who fights like hell to rise to the occasion and plays at whatever level is needed to get us a W. No one said he'd need to be dropping 40+ or 50+ to carry us to wins with KD here. In fact it was the opposite, it was all how Booker wouldn't need to have those games anymore for us to win big games.

 

[Muggz]

Ishbia put himself behind the 8 ball for sure, Lets see what he's got.
If he can grab that 3 from Portland for Ayton we CAN get a PGOF and maybe some RPers or picks.

 

[Yuma]

I find it interesting that some on the board said our depth didn't have enough quality before the KD trade. We lost the previous two seasons WITH the guys we traded for KD. So we are to believe the third time was the charm. Now we lost with KD and the guys below Book and KD, 10 of them have contracts we can get out of immediately, and three of the others supposedly have trade friendly contracts. SO we could get rid of up to 13 guys that failed us in this years playoffs and have a whole new team for next season. I guess I am a glass half full guy in this situation. I would be MORE depressed if we had this whole crew for another 5 years without being able to make moves.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We went 8-0 with KD and the biggest win was beating a Dallas team, who couldn't beat anyone, at the buzzer. Other than that we beat bottom feeders and teams resting virtually all their starters... and struggled to beat them in the process.

And Denver was throwing doubles at Booker anyway, he was dribbling through them because Denver is a bad defensive team, especially their guards.

I think we would have matched up better against Denver... for sure, I don't know if we beat them, but our lack of shooting and reliance on ISO made us very predictable.

Worth noting... we probably wouldn't have even played Denver until the conference finals. We were finally healthy going into the trade deadline, if we hadn't done the trade we'd likely have leap frogged the Kings for 3rd.

That’s possible. Though we did go 8-0 with KD post trade. I think overall we went 15-10 over the full stretch. To pass the kings we would’ve had to have gone 19-6. That’s a 62+ game winning rate. I’m not sure that would’ve occurred. Would’ve been close though. That said, had we played book and Durant we likely end up only 1 or 2 games outta third slot. So we aren’t talking a big difference. All the injuries all season long put us in a hole that was too deep to dig out of for homecourt in the second round.