2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

[elindholm]

Here’s my issue with we had to change and take the big risk because the team never has before… this team has repeatedly taken the big risk route numerous times. Big trade for Barkley age 31, big trade for Penny, big FA signing with Nash at age 32, trade for 36 year old CP3, and then the KD trade, which was a wild overpay.

And Marion for O'Neal.

Nash was only 30 when he rejoined the Suns, and Paul was 35, not 36. Even so, what strikes me about both of those moves is that neither was expected to make the Suns a contender. The goal for each trade was to get "good," not to get "great."

Nash was brought in to help Stoudemire get to the next level, but the Suns were a dismal 29-53 the previous season, and no one could have imagined the difference Nash would make. That was an ideal move because the upfront cost was minimal, a modest return would have made it seem worth it, and everything on top of that was gravy.

The Paul trade was similar. They were trying to get back to the playoffs after spending the first several years of Booker's career in the lottery. No one expected a Finals run, certainly not in the first season.

On the face of it, the Hardaway trade looks similar to the Durant one. Like Durant, Hardaway came with an injury history and questions about his attitude. But the Suns gave up Danny Manning, who had been going through a stretch of good health and contributed on both ends of the court, two first-round picks, Pat Garrity as a throw-in ... and that was it. The price for Hardaway was roughly half what they would later pay for Durant.

We hoped Ayton would be that guy, but it was clear early he wasn’t going to be and in the same draft, we passed on the guy who would have been.

Who might have been. It remains to be seen whether Doncic gets there. He's more impactful than Ayton by a wide margin, but he's not a champion yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And Marion for O'Neal.

Nash was only 30 when he rejoined the Suns, and Paul was 35, not 36. Even so, what strikes me about both of those moves is that neither was expected to make the Suns a contender. The goal for each trade was to get "good," not to get "great."

Nash was brought in to help Stoudemire get to the next level, but the Suns were a dismal 29-53 the previous season, and no one could have imagined the difference Nash would make. That was an ideal move because the upfront cost was minimal, a modest return would have made it seem worth it, and everything on top of that was gravy.

The Paul trade was similar. They were trying to get back to the playoffs after spending the first several years of Booker's career in the lottery. No one expected a Finals run, certainly not in the first season.

On the face of it, the Hardaway trade looks similar to the Durant one. Like Durant, Hardaway came with an injury history and questions about his attitude. But the Suns gave up Danny Manning, who had been going through a stretch of good health and contributed on both ends of the court, two first-round picks, Pat Garrity as a throw-in ... and that was it. The price for Hardaway was roughly half what they would later pay for Durant.



Who might have been. It remains to be seen whether Doncic gets there. He's more impactful than Ayton by a wide margin, but he's not a champion yet.

Yeah… I should have said generational title contending talent instead of winning. I do think Doncic has shown to be the head of a snake of a title contender as he totally turned Dallas around, and has taken them to the WCF and the Finals in 2 of the last 3 years, still at a young age.

 

[Mainstreet]

Steve Nash was the idea point guard to run Mike D'Antoni's SSOL offense which helps to account for the Suns vast improvement in his second season as head coach.

 

[Phrazbit]

Huh…

Ex-Kings GM Vlade Divac: 'Time will tell' if drafting Marvin Bagley over Luka Dončić was right decision

Time has been pretty pro-Luka Dončić so far.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Cheesebeef]

Huh…

Ex-Kings GM Vlade Divac: 'Time will tell' if drafting Marvin Bagley over Luka Dončić was right decision

Time has been pretty pro-Luka Dončić so far.

sports.yahoo.com

the inability to admit mistake is a sickness plaguing so much of humanity. i mean... come on, Vlade!

 

[Mainstreet]

Always draft BPA even if you have multiple players who play the same position.

This is from the linked article @Phrazbit posted. Fox is a player the Suns should have drafted.


By Jack Baer Staff writer Sat, Sep 21, 2024, 5:48 PM MST·3 min read:


In an interview with Croatian outlet Index.hr, Divac was asked to explain passing over Dončić. Like he did right after the draft, Divac pointed to the presence of Kings guard De'Aaron Fox as the reason why Bagley was the better choice, and implied Fox could still vindicate the decision if he has a better career than Dončić.

From Index, interpreted through Google Translate:

"I had De'Aaron Fox at that position, whom I drafted a year earlier. At that moment, I thought that Fox was a player who could become a franchise player in the next period. Time will tell if I was wrong. As things stand now, it looks like I am, but I have faith in little Fox that he will have a better career."

Ex-Kings GM Vlade Divac: 'Time will tell' if drafting Marvin Bagley over Luka Dončić was right decision

Time has been pretty pro-Luka Dončić so far.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Covert Rain]

Huh…

Ex-Kings GM Vlade Divac: 'Time will tell' if drafting Marvin Bagley over Luka Dončić was right decision

Time has been pretty pro-Luka Dončić so far.

sports.yahoo.com

What the what?!?! He doesn't have a rookie any longer. Pretty sure we know Vlade.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Grizzlies are waiving Derrick Rose.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Superbone]

I'm just catching up on this thread. The Durant trade wasn't happening without Bridges. He was the key piece on the Brooklyn side. It's all the extra draft picks, Johnson, and Crowder where we had some room to bargain but didn't. Ishbia was too keen to get his new toy and make a splash.

 

[Chaplin]

Always draft BPA even if you have multiple players who play the same position.

This is from the linked article @Phrazbit posted. Fox is a player the Suns should have drafted.


By Jack Baer Staff writer Sat, Sep 21, 2024, 5:48 PM MST·3 min read:


In an interview with Croatian outlet Index.hr, Divac was asked to explain passing over Dončić. Like he did right after the draft, Divac pointed to the presence of Kings guard De'Aaron Fox as the reason why Bagley was the better choice, and implied Fox could still vindicate the decision if he has a better career than Dončić.

From Index, interpreted through Google Translate:

Ex-Kings GM Vlade Divac: 'Time will tell' if drafting Marvin Bagley over Luka Dončić was right decision

Time has been pretty pro-Luka Dončić so far.

sports.yahoo.com

Did he say he has faith that Fox will have a better career than Luka??

 

[Mainstreet]

Nassir Little will sign a one year contract with the Heat.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Hoop Head]

Did he say he has faith that Fox will have a better career than Luka??

It's crazy but I think there's some merit to the idea. 4-5 years ago no one would have said Jrue Holiday would have a better career than James Harden, both drafted in 2009. Now? It'll be hard for Harden to come close to what Holiday has done.

I'm not saying that will happen with Fox but I think he has the tools to be a modern Jrue Holiday. He needs to get out of Sacramento and be used as more of a 3rd option that focuses more on defense but I can see a lot of similarity in their skill set and early career. Jrue was a chucker in Philly initially, albeit not as effective as Fox. The Luka/Harden comparison isn't hard to see.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hate to go back to this but again, some of us were confident that we could have had Durant for much less and we jumped the gun. AFAIC the writing was on the wall, Durant had to go and Brooklyn didn't have any real suitors. Had we made the trade and hung onto Cam and a few picks we'd have been in much better shape when it came to filling out the post trade roster.

If, by holding firm, someone else was able to jump in and steal KD before us or if the Nets turned us down even at the last minute, than so be it. We simply didn't have the assets to pay the price we did for KD and still round out the rotation.

But your confidence is based wholly on conjecture. There’s no way we could know. They had already turned down the offer you proposed earlier that year and played it out.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As I saw the trade, Bridges, was untouchable.

The Suns could have made a trade like the Mavericks if they hadn't panicked, who acquired Daniel Gafford and P.J. Washington.

You’re equating gafford and Washington to Durant? Cmon man.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But your confidence is based wholly on conjecture. There’s no way we could know. They had already turned down the offer you proposed earlier that year and played it out.

Yes but at the time most of the talking heads were saying that Brooklyn's trade demands remained unrealistic and that one way or the other, they had to move him by the deadline. We jumped the gun on that deadline, everything else can be labeled as conjecture but not that. And if my confidence is misplaced and they were never going to take less from us, that would have been the time to walk away rather than cave in.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes but at the time most of the talking heads were saying that Brooklyn's trade demands remained unrealistic and that one way or the other, they had to move him by the deadline. We jumped the gun on that deadline, everything else can be labeled as conjecture but not that. And if my confidence is misplaced and they were never going to take less from us, that would have been the time to walk away rather than cave in.

And the Suns didn't have to buy the biggest brand name lollipop at the candy store. The myth is the Suns had to trade for Durant.

They didn't and especially at the asking price. There is more than one path to a destination.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes but at the time most of the talking heads were saying that Brooklyn's trade demands remained unrealistic and that one way or the other, they had to move him by the deadline. We jumped the gun on that deadline, everything else can be labeled as conjecture but not that. And if my confidence is misplaced and they were never going to take less from us, that would have been the time to walk away rather than cave in.

You called it right, but I don’t think it was as obvious as everyone states it was. Definitely with hindsight, but you were steadfast in your foresight, so credit to you and a few others.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And the Suns didn't have to buy the biggest brand name lollipop at the candy store. The myth is the Suns had to trade for Durant.

They didn't and especially at the asking price. There is more than one path to a destination.

What myth? No one is saying they had to trade for him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You called it right, but I don’t think it was as obvious as everyone states it was. Definitely with hindsight, but you were steadfast in your foresight, so credit to you and a few others.

I got some of it wrong too - for example, KD, other than some end of game problems, has performed a little better than I expected. He's also been a lot more available than I expected. And while last year's acquisitions pretty much all flopped, it showed that we can find other ways besides the draft to improve the roster and we've continued doing so this offseason. So even though the cupboard was mostly bare after that trade, Booker and KD have both proven to be good FA draws.

 

[Covert Rain]

And the Suns didn't have to buy the biggest brand name lollipop at the candy store. The myth is the Suns had to trade for Durant.

They didn't and especially at the asking price. There is more than one path to a destination.

Myth? Who said Suns HAD to trade for Durant? I think people were saying he was the only #1 that we know of that is available and feasible which is different. I think what is not a Myth is the Suns had to go get a #1 or 1B. That is not a myth.

 

[GatorAZ]

I still think the Nets pull the trigger without Cam or a pick or two had Ishbia called their bluff but he literally had like 24 hrs between officially owning the team and the trade deadline. The Nets played better poker given the circumstances.

 

[Mainstreet]

Myth? Who said Suns HAD to trade for Durant? I think people were saying he was the only #1 that we know of that is available and feasible which is different. I think what is not a Myth is the Suns had to go get a #1 or 1B. That is not a myth.

It seems like those who supported the Durant trade at the Nets asking price are fading away.

 

[Hoop Head]

Myth? Who said Suns HAD to trade for Durant? I think people were saying he was the only #1 that we know of that is available and feasible which is different. I think what is not a Myth is the Suns had to go get a #1 or 1B. That is not a myth.

How are those things different? We didn't need to make a deal.

We didn't win a title and anyone who thought we would post trade was fooling themselves. I remember discussing a very similar topic after Denver eliminated the Suns, those pro KD trade were saying it was about the coming seasons and filling holes that off-season. It proved extremely difficult to fill those holes given the new CBA, which was made public knowledge days before the KD trade. So this idea "The Suns didn't have to trade for KD but they had to make a trade for a KD like player" doesn't hold up to me. It's shifting the goalposts.

 

[Chaplin]

It seems like those who supported the Durant trade at the Nets asking price are fading away.

Online bullying DOES work!

 

[Covert Rain]

It seems like those who supported the Durant trade at the Nets asking price are fading away.

Hindsight is 20/20. If the trade had worked nobody would be saying the cost was too much. Let me guess people that support the Ayton pick are fading away too?!?