2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

[Hoop Head]

Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
4h

The Detroit Pistons are waiving center Paul Reed, sources tell ESPN. In 12 games, Reed has averaged 4.8 points and 2.3 rebounds in 10 minutes. The move was made to give Detroit roster and salary flexibility with the NBA trade deadline less than two months away.

Paul Reed isn't a bad player. He did a good job in place of Embiid in Philadelphia. He averaged 7 ppg, 6 rpg, and a 1 block in 20 minutes for the season. He also shot well from deep, 36.8% from 3. Definitely worth kicking the tires on. He's shot 36.4% from 3 this year so he hasn't regressed. I wonder what the issue is. Has to be some guarantee salary issue.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Paul Reed isn't a bad player. He did a good job in place of Embiid in Philadelphia. He averaged 7 ppg, 6 rpg, and a 1 block in 20 minutes for the season. He also shot well from deep, 36.8% from 3. Definitely worth kicking the tires on. He's shot 36.4% from 3 this year so he hasn't regressed. I wonder what the issue is. Has to be some guarantee salary issue.

Yeah I haven't seen or followed him for awhile now but if he's not lost anything he'd be a decent addition (if it's possible).

 

[Hoop Head]

Some of us need to put the past in the past and stop carrying it into new conversations. The current state of the Suns has us all on edge, and this board is sour enough without adding to it. JMO.

That's all well and good in theory but isn't entirely practical. There's a reason some of us, myself included, have no confidence in James Jones being the GM of a rebuild. That's based on his past as a GM. Any move he makes will draw skepticism. Any move a fan calls for doesn't exist in a vacuum. If we know that same fan was in favor of the move that put us in this no man's land, I feel it's entirely fair to mention that as a reason why they need to present a very strong argument as to why this new plan should be the path forward. That hasn't been done. Repeating we're in no man's land isn't justification for a move either. Some of us have been saying for almost 2 years now, since a certain trade was made, and dismissed for saying that. Well we've learned that's where it led and now there's no clear path forward other than taking our lumps. That was part of the cost of the trade initially. Good or bad, it was all in. We can't get a mulligan or a safety net to save us already.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yeah I haven't seen or followed him for awhile now but if he's not lost anything he'd be a decent addition (if it's possible).

It appears he was on a non-guaranteed deal. This is apparently a move made by Detroit to free up cap space before tomorrow when signed players can be dealt, where they'll be active, and waiving Reed will give them around $8 million in extra space. He's likely to clear waivers because there's more money beyond this year and I doubt anyone wants to pay all that.

Should the Sixers consider a reunion with Paul Reed?

Former Sixers big man Paul Reed has been placed on waives. Despite the fond memories and Joel Embiid's latest injuries, a reunion is unwise.

phillysportsnetwork.com

 

[Phrazbit]

I know it's often easier said than done but some of us need to put the past in the past and stop carrying it into new conversations. The current state of the Suns has us all on edge, and this board is sour enough without adding to it. JMO.

Well, one thing that should be noted is that this conversation is pointless. There is no chance, zero, none whatsoever, that they blow the team up this year.

1: It would be virtually impossible.

2: there is no way Ishbia pulls the plug this quick and opens himself up to the humiliation of officially having made the worst trade in NBA history mere hours after he bought a franchise.

Maaaaaaaybe during the Summer when guys are easier to move, more teams have space and assets are more fluid... and even then it would be contingent on KD forcing the issue (which isn't out of the question).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Until he figures out that hubris and deep pockets aren't enough to create a contending NBA team, pulls a Prokhorov, and bails.

That’s very possible. He’s playing an expensive game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Scary thought but I think Ishbia is a basketball lifer. He ain't going anywhere.

I kinda feel the same. He was a gym rat growing up.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And your incessant nitpicking does? It was clear what @Mainstreet was saying. You want to nitpick and complain because your whole idea to get the Suns over the hump failed and now you want abandon ship after 1 full season. That shows how committed you were then and now. You actually stand for nothing because you can't hold a firm belief beyond 1 season and now you supposedly have the answers for the next 5-6 seasons? That's funny. Tell us what changed? You haven't done that but you're quick to tell others theyre wrong, because as i said that's who you are and what you do. You're free to believe that but don't be surprised when it's called out and dismissed as your new temporary stance.

You’re right. Digging into a stance and not learning and evolving is smart.

 

[Hoop Head]

You’re right. Digging into a stance and not learning and evolving is smart.

Then explain how he's evolved and learned. He's learned the trade he supported before was a complete failure and is now calling for a change when there is no difference between winning 20 and 60 games right now for the Suns, the result will be the same in terms of draft compensation. It seems he doesn't understand that or is openly ignoring it because there's been no case presented to justify handing over top lottery picks to other teams because the 6th seed team won't win a championship. There is no championship coming from bottoming out. Sure, there's potential we make a trade that gets a decent draft pick from somewhere else but there is also a chance we get lucky and are able to maintain our health for a strong playoff run. On the draft compensation route, what the Suns control won't benefit them so why bottom out now? Knowing the trade was a mistake doesn't justify paying off the cost with more valuable currency. It seems he still doesn't grasp that when he justified the KD deal this is the price, the team now for better or worse. You can't have both it ways. The incessant calls for a teardown only shows he doesn't recognize or hasn't learned what he was just as vocal in support of before. That's not growth or evolving.

The Suns are screwed. The only realistic path forward is to shuffle the deck chairs on the titanic in the form of trying to move our mediocre role players for some other mediocre role players that are better fits for this system and to pray for a miracle where we can sustain a healthy roster when our match ups can't in April and beyond. That was the price of the KD and Beal trades that pushed us into a salary cap nightmare with zero draft picks under own control.

 

[Ronin]

Evan Sidery

@esidery
·
2m

The Pacers have no interest in trading Myles Turner, who is set to become an unrestricted free agent for the first time this offseason.Indiana still views Turner as a valuable piece to their core alongside Tyrese Haliburton and Pascal Siakam

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chris Paul re-signed with the Suns as a free agent. Tyus Jones signed with the Suns as a free agent.

Devin Booker helped attract Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal in trade.

Now you want a fire sale of the Suns after only one full season of Durant after saying he is the free agent attraction.

I don't know where you are coming from, but it seems you would rather discuss technicalities instead of basketball.

Considering the trade route for a major free agent isn’t an option while we have book and kd on the ledger the technicality that the player be a free agent isnt really a technicality but a core reality. No?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's all well and good in theory but isn't entirely practical. There's a reason some of us, myself included, have no confidence in James Jones being the GM of a rebuild. That's based on his past as a GM. Any move he makes will draw skepticism. Any move a fan calls for doesn't exist in a vacuum. If we know that same fan was in favor of the move that put us in this no man's land, I feel it's entirely fair to mention that as a reason why they need to present a very strong argument as to why this new plan should be the path forward. That hasn't been done. Repeating we're in no man's land isn't justification for a move either. Some of us have been saying for almost 2 years now, since a certain trade was made, and dismissed for saying that. Well we've learned that's where it led and now there's no clear path forward other than taking our lumps. That was part of the cost of the trade initially. Good or bad, it was all in. We can't get a mulligan or a safety net to save us already.

This is sunk cost fallacy. As long as alternative choices are available, why not discuss them as possibilities? I get youre still big mad about the deal and you can’t voice your anger to ishbia, but man your vendetta against anyone who supported the deal is tiresome and toxic.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, one thing that should be noted is that this conversation is pointless. There is no chance, zero, none whatsoever, that they blow the team up this year.

1: It would be virtually impossible.

2: there is no way Ishbia pulls the plug this quick and opens himself up to the humiliation of officially having made the worst trade in NBA history mere hours after he bought a franchise.

Maaaaaaaybe during the Summer when guys are easier to move, more teams have space and assets are more fluid... and even then it would be contingent on KD forcing the issue (which isn't out of the question).

Agree with all of this. Also, I wouldn’t be so certain about the ego thing. Yeah billionaires have tremendous egos. But they likely didn’t get to be billionaires if along the way they weren’t open to admitting mistakes. In fact, they’re often the people that admit them most quickly and avoid compounding them. But yeah, I’d be shocked if it were midseason this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Chris Paul re-signed with the Suns as a free agent. Tyus Jones signed with the Suns as a free agent.

If you want to hold up resigning CP3, who was older and already a Sun as a prime example of Booker attracting “Top Free Agents”, okay. I’ll agree to disagree there. But do you really believe Tyus Jones, who had to sign a minimum contract, was a “Top Free Agent”? He was a good get, especially for the price, but I don’t think “Top Free Agents” sign for minimum contracts. And he came because of KD and Booker. Not Booker alone. And the idea of Booker alone being able to attract Top Free Agents was the basis of our original back and forth. But again, even if you want to give credit to Booker there, I don’t consider a guy signed to a minimum one year deal a Top Free Agent. So we seem to have completely definitions of the term.

Devin Booker helped attract Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal in trade.

Right… KD was a trade. And helping attract one of the most distressed assets in the league via trade still isn’t getting a Top Free Agent.

Now you want a fire sale of the Suns after only one full season of Durant after saying he is the free agent attraction.

I want a fire-sale because we are so screwed with the cap that we can’t sign anyone of worth, ie “Top Free Agents”, we’re painfully mediocre and once KD is off the books, I think rebuilding around a 30 year old Devin Booker is an exercise in futility.

And the point about KD I made was that he pulled top FAs for Brooklyn and can still pull the best minimum and buyout guys. But KD won’t get the chance to show his pull to get a Top Free Agent because we will never have the cap space to give him that chance (and it’s debatable at 36 if he’s even still have that pull with what I consider Top Free Agents). So while he’s still showing the ability to pull good minimum guys, this team is so mediocre that minimum FAs won’t move the needle and because of our cap situation, we will never be able to go for Top Free Agents. I just don’t see the point being mediocre for years and then bottoming out and not having stocked picks ahead of time when we could have gotten the most we could for Booker/KD.

Do you believe this team can back to contending by signing the best minimum FAs going forward? Alternatively, do you see this team being able to sign Top Free Agents with our salary constraints moving forward?

I don't know where you are coming from, but it seems you would rather discuss technicalities instead of basketball.

All of the above is basketball and not technicality.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Then explain how he's evolved and learned. He's learned the trade he supported before was a complete failure and is now calling for a change when there is no difference between winning 20 and 60 games right now for the Suns, the result will be the same in terms of draft compensation. It seems he doesn't understand that or is openly ignoring it because there's been no case presented to justify handing over top lottery picks to other teams because the 6th seed team won't win a championship. There is no championship coming from bottoming out. Sure, there's potential we make a trade that gets a decent draft pick from somewhere else but there is also a chance we get lucky and are able to maintain our health for a strong playoff run. On the draft compensation route, what the Suns control won't benefit them so why bottom out now? Knowing the trade was a mistake doesn't justify paying off the cost with more valuable currency. It seems he still doesn't grasp that when he justified the KD deal this is the price, the team now for better or worse. You can't have both it ways. The incessant calls for a teardown only shows he doesn't recognize or hasn't learned what he was just as vocal in support of before. That's not growth or evolving.

The Suns are screwed. The only realistic path forward is to shuffle the deck chairs on the titanic in the form of trying to move our mediocre role players for some other mediocre role players that are better fits for this system and to pray for a miracle where we can sustain a healthy roster when our match ups can't in April and beyond. That was the price of the KD and Beal trades that pushed us into a salary cap nightmare with zero draft picks under own control.

Ironically your argument is the one that hasn’t changed and you can’t recognize it. In fact, neither of your core arguments have changed.

Cheese’s is so whatever is necessary to win a championship, even if it entails immediate pain.

Yours (though you won’t admit it) is that you are okay with 50 and fade and want to avoid all pain of starting over.

The difference is that cheese recognizes that the current team doesn’t really have a chance at a championship and that the deal he (and I) were for only offers two paths: (1) 50 (or likely less) and fade as-is; or (2) start the tear down asap to start the rebuild more quickly.

Ironically you, who hated the kd deal so much that you’ve made a mess of the board about it, now want to cling to kd as some sort of last (and wholly unrealistic) gasp at reality as-is. You seem unable to think strategically beyond two dimensions about possible alternative paths, and instead of discussing the merits of them choose to attack the poster.

So at the end of the day neither of you has abandoned your original position:

Cheese: take swings whenever you recognize the current state of affairs won’t net you a championship.

You: keep feeding me 50 (or worse) and fade as long as I don’t have to experience the depths of the valleys of a rebuild.

Ultimately I think it’s a difference of risk tolerance. Cheese has a high tolerance and you have none.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ironically your argument is the one that hasn’t changed and you can’t recognize it. In fact, neither of your core arguments have changed.

Cheese’s is so whatever is necessary to win a championship, even if it entails immediate pain.

Yours (though you won’t admit it) is that you are okay with 50 and fade and want to avoid all pain of starting over.

The difference is that cheese recognizes that the current team doesn’t really have a chance at a championship and that the deal he (and I) were for only offers two paths: (1) 50 (or likely less) and fade as-is; or (2) start the tear down asap to start the rebuild more quickly.

Ironically you, who hated the kd deal so much that you’ve made a mess of the board about it, now want to cling to kd as some sort of last (and wholly unrealistic) gasp at reality as-is. You seem unable to think strategically beyond two dimensions about possible alternative paths, and instead of discussing the merits of them choose to attack the poster.

So at the end of the day neither of you has abandoned your original position:

Cheese: take swings whenever you recognize the current state of affairs won’t net you a championship.

You: keep feeding me 50 (or worse) and fade as long as I don’t have to experience the depths of the valleys of a rebuild.

Ultimately I think it’s a difference of risk tolerance. Cheese has a high tolerance and you have none.

Ouch… don’t bring me up or defend me again in these convos. the board doesn’t need any kind of lengthy back and forth between any of us again which is why I’m not engaging. I suggest doing the same.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ouch… don’t bring me up or defend me again in these convos. the board doesn’t need any kind of lengthy back and forth again which is why I’m not engaging. I suggest doing the same.

I’m not defending you. I’m explaining how the two of you just have different philosophies of what you are comfortable with from the suns. And commenting on how droll the attacks are.

While I share your philosophy I also recognize there’s no “right” or “wrong” answer here.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ironically your argument is the one that hasn’t changed and you can’t recognize it. In fact, neither of your core arguments have changed.

Cheese’s is so whatever is necessary to win a championship, even if it entails immediate pain.

Yours (though you won’t admit it) is that you are okay with 50 and fade and want to avoid all pain of starting over.

If the option is 50 and fade or tank without control of our picks, the choice is easy there and it's 50 and fade. What won't I admit? See, you're trying to misrepresent my view right off the bat in an attempt to say I'm wrong for why I'm dismissive of Cheese's claim we should tear it down and suck for the next few years. He lacks any sort of conviction, which isn't wrong to say since his view has changed so quickly on what he supported 20 months back.

The difference is that cheese recognizes that the current team doesn’t really have a chance at a championship and that the deal he (and I) were for only offers two paths: (1) 50 (or likely less) and fade as-is; or (2) start the tear down asap to start the rebuild more quickly.

You refuse to accept the cost of the KD deal wasn't all paid at once. The Suns hitched their wagon to a KD & Booker pairing until one or both demand a trade. That's reality. We are paying draft capital until 2030 for KD so it doesn't make sense to tear it down to nothing and start from scratch until we can receive the benefit of being "nothing" in the form of lottery picks being a team in despair receives.

Ironically you, who hated the kd deal so much that you’ve made a mess of the board about it, now want to cling to kd as some sort of last (and wholly unrealistic) gasp at reality as-is. You seem unable to think strategically beyond two dimensions about possible alternative paths, and instead of discussing the merits of them choose to attack the poster.

Ive made a mess? now the attacks start because I'm not willing to sit back and let people posit ridiculous rebuild ideas. Sorry I'm reminding people their previous stance got us in this mess.

As I said elsewhere, any teardown talks should start at how we acquire our picks back because it's not advantageous to bottom out before we control our own picks. I'd much rather watch and hope for a miracle in the playoffs from a 50 and fade team. (Wait I thought I didn't want 50 and fade?). It makes no sense to bottom out before we control our draft capital. That shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp or a controversial opinion. If we can get those picks, somehow, fine, lets talk about what to do after. It's not worth putting the cart before the horse though.

So at the end of the day neither of you has abandoned your original position:

Cheese: take swings whenever you recognize the current state of affairs won’t net you a championship.

You: keep feeding me 50 (or worse) and fade as long as I don’t have to experience the depths of the valleys of a rebuild

.Ultimately I think it’s a difference of risk tolerance. Cheese has a high tolerance and you have none.

I would have been more in favor of a rebuild than locking us into 50 and fade, which is what the KD trade did. It locked us in due to the salary and cap restraints in this CBA.

I was for taking a risk, the risk something better would come along than an aging oft-injured fading star in KD. If the path was to blow it all up, which wouldn't have made a lot of sense considering the ages of Booker, Mikal, Ayton, etc then I would have supported that more than trading for the bus driver. Swinging for KD has consequences, we've all mentioned these but you and now your bother refuse to accept those consequences. The consequences are we're stuck with 50 and fade now, locked in until KD or Book demands a trade.

Say he's more open to risk all you, he's less willing to accept consequences and you seem to fall in that group as will since you're now trying to flip things around every way you can. So did he evolve and change or has his position not shifted? You're now speaking out both sides of your mouth. The cost for KD is still being paid. You can't throw your hands up and say "Didn't work, time to try again!" before we own our picks. It does us no good to stink just because 50 and fade is unacceptable to you. There's no benefit to bottoming out in the standings right now. Again, this all begins with getting our picks back. If we can't then we're stuck paying the price of KD and that's what we've since he put on the Suns jersey, a 50 and a fade squad.