2024 NBA Draft talk: Suns own pick 22

[Chaplin]

Be joyful, that's fine. That doesn't make you right or anyone else wrong, or vice versa. We're sharing our own views and perceptions here. Not everyone is going to view the route taken the same.

Horsecrap. You are lecturing people that they shouldn't think one thing or the other, and when you are called on it, you change your tune.

 

[Yuma]

quite frankly I don't care what asterisk we would have on our first championship if a handful of good free agents decide to take the vet minimum and come here to win a championship. Heck, let the top five free agents this season decide they want to come here. Bring it!

 

[Hoop Head]

Where did I criticize you or anybody? You want SO HARD to tear everything down in almost every post. Just give it a rest already. Nobody is handing the trophy to the Suns. And we certainly don't think the odds are good that we get Lebron. I'd say 3%, tops. So quit the lecture.

Project much Chap? Rather than defend your stance and engage in a discussion you want to turn this into a fight. I'm not looking to fight with you but I'm also not going to be bullied into silence. I ask again, do you want to have a discussion or do you want to argue? Last time I asked you quit replying, only jumping in to nitpick a comment I made. So what is it Chap, do you post here to discuss the Suns with others or just force your opinion on others and cry foul when someone disagrees?

 

[Hoop Head]

Horsecrap. You are lecturing people that they shouldn't think one thing or the other, and when you are called on it, you change your tune.

Never change, Chap.

 

[Chaplin]

Project much Chap? Rather than defend your stance and engage in a discussion you want to turn this into a fight. I'm not looking to fight with you but I'm also not going to be bullied into silence. I ask again, do you want to have a discussion or do you want to argue? Last time I asked you quit replying, only jumping in to nitpick a comment I made. So what is it Chap, do you post here to discuss the Suns with others or just force your opinion on others and cry foul when someone disagrees?

Lecture, lecture, lecture. Thanks professor, we'll be sure to do better next time so that we don't hurt your delicate sensibilities.

 

[Hoop Head]

quite frankly I don't care what asterisk we would have on our first championship if a handful of good free agents decide to take the vet minimum and come here to win a championship. Heck, let the top five free agents this season decide they want to come here. Bring it!

It's Interesting. Ive talked to some Toronto fans and they still love their championship but also teeter back and forth about the price they paid. Most believe the cost to acquire Kawhi was fine, which is what shifted things in their favor, but where they have trouble coming to terms with things is how they followed that championship. They held onto their core too long when Kawhi left which cost them a lot of talent and probably another decade before they're prepared to reasonably make another run.

I can see that being an issue here if it happened also. Of course 1 would be nice but after paying so much for it to blow up in our face I'm on the fence whether it would be worth it to pay more for another limited run.

 

[Hoop Head]

Lecture, lecture, lecture. Thanks professor, we'll be sure to do better next time so that we don't hurt your delicate sensibilities.

Asking you if you want to discuss what you posted is lecturing you? Lol ok.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Be joyful, that's fine. That doesn't make you right or anyone else wrong, or vice versa. We're sharing our own views and perceptions here. Not everyone is going to view the route taken the same.

This is literally you telling people what views of theirs they should not be sharing:

“Let's acquire LeBron before we start saying how high the ceiling is“

 

[Hoop Head]

This is literally you telling people what views of theirs they should not be sharing:

“Let's acquire LeBron before we start saying how high the ceiling is“

Going to deliberately ignore what I said around that line that puts that in proper context? How we were supposedly the team to watch when we got KD, when we added Beal, and now if/when we add LeBron? Also how I stated others don't view it the same. Saying we shouldn't celebrate early and pointing out the most recent examples of that blowing up in our faces is now wrong? I'm entitled to my opinion. I never said Chap or you couldn't have a different one. But go on and nitpick. Just like I said, I'm not going to let you guys try to bully me into silence. Sorry I made the error of disagreeing and pointing out what happened the last time we were the "team to watch". Didn't realize pointing out what happened before and expressing my view was silencing those who think differently. I don't see an issue with saying until LeBron is acquired we shouldn't plan a parade. There's many reasons for that, what does he cost, how does he fit in, who sticks around, etc? Rather than ask all those questions and consider all the variables it's much easier to say "don't count your chickens" basically. Apparently that's silencing others though.

I don't buy that we become a contender or favorite by adding LeBron to what this team was this past season. I don't share the crystal ball you all are looking at and getting hyped over.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's Interesting. Ive talked to some Toronto fans and they still love their championship but also teeter back and forth about the price they paid. Most believe the cost to acquire Kawhi was fine, which is what shifted things in their favor, but where they have trouble coming to terms with things is how they followed that championship. They held onto their core too long when Kawhi left which cost them a lot of talent and probably another decade before they're prepared to reasonably make another run.

I can see that being an issue here if it happened also. Of course 1 would be nice but after paying so much for it to blow up in our face I'm on the fence whether it would be worth it to pay more for another limited run.

At least the Raptors fans got a championship out of it.

The Suns weren't deep enough to make a title run when they acquired Durant. Unfortunately, it was the same situation last season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Going to deliberately ignore what I said around that line that puts that in proper context? How we were supposedly the team to watch when we got KD, when we added Beal, and now if/when we add LeBron? Also how I stated others don't view it the same. Saying we shouldn't celebrate early and pointing out the most recent examples of that blowing up in our faces is now wrong? I'm entitled to my opinion. I never said Chap or you couldn't have a different one. But go on and nitpick. Just like I said, I'm not going to let you guys try to bully me into silence. Sorry I made the error of disagreeing and pointing out what happened the last time we were the "team to watch". Didn't realize pointing out what happened before and expressing my view was silencing those who think differently. I don't see an issue with saying until LeBron is acquired we shouldn't plan a parade. There's many reasons for that, what does he cost, how does he fit in, who sticks around, etc? Rather than ask all those questions and consider all the variables it's much easier to say "don't count your chickens" basically. Apparently that's silencing others though.

I don't buy that we become a contender or favorite by adding LeBron to what this team was this past season. I don't share the crystal ball you all are looking at and getting hyped over.

Aaand ignore. Even your hypocrisy is explicitly pointed out you go off the deep end. Byeeeeeeee

 

[Hoop Head]

Aaand ignore. Even your hypocrisy is explicitly pointed out you go off the deep end. Byeeeeeeee

Tell me where I said someone can't have an opinion. You can't. Like I said, I made the "mistake" of disagreeing with you and your ilk, that's all. Keep trying to bully me into silence though, it won't work.

 

[Dan H]

It's Interesting. Ive talked to some Toronto fans and they still love their championship but also teeter back and forth about the price they paid. Most believe the cost to acquire Kawhi was fine, which is what shifted things in their favor, but where they have trouble coming to terms with things is how they followed that championship. They held onto their core too long when Kawhi left which cost them a lot of talent and probably another decade before they're prepared to reasonably make another run.

I can see that being an issue here if it happened also. Of course 1 would be nice but after paying so much for it to blow up in our face I'm on the fence whether it would be worth it to pay more for another limited run.

That’s a fair argument and the same thing kinda happened with the DBacks. They pretty much fell off a cliff 2-3 years after winning the WS.

 

[Sparky16]

Oh sure, we take it. But some of the sweetness would be gone. At least for me.

The Best would have been the worst to 1st a few years ago and Paul getting his 1st and only ring.

I'm holding out for a Beal trade that works for both parties of a trade - he is not a fit with Book playing his position. Suns need a PG and probably a traditional PF

 

[ajcardfan]

While I agree, 50+ years of ZERO championships makes beggars can’t be choosy situations.

The dbacks won a title with almost no history or homegrown players. Loved every minute of it.

They were an expansion franchise. Johnson had been there three years, Schilling two. Gonzalez, Bell, Williams were there from the beginning.

So, I personally don't think that is like rent-a-LeBron hypothetical title. Sure, I will take a title, any title for the Suns. I will be happy to see LeBron and Bronny touch the trophy first in Suns uniforms. But would it be as sweet as Westphal and Adams, Barkley and KJ, Nash and Amare, Booker and Paul being the face of the celebration? Nah.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That’s a fair argument and the same thing kinda happened with the DBacks. They pretty much fell off a cliff 2-3 years after winning the WS.

But it remains the only pro championship this state has ever had and it is cherished.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They were an expansion franchise. Johnson had been there three years, Schilling two. Gonzalez, Bell, Williams were there from the beginning.

So, I personally don't think that is like rent-a-LeBron hypothetical title. Sure, I will take a title, any title for the Suns. I will be happy to see LeBron and Bronny touch the trophy first in Suns uniforms. But would it be as sweet as Westphal and Adams, Barkley and KJ, Nash and Amare, Booker and Paul being the face of the celebration? Nah.

Booker will have been here longer than any dback had been with that squad. And the argument being made wasn’t longevity it was seeing drafted players “grow up” with the franchise. It can’t be said any of those guys “grew up” with the dbacks. They were already established known commodities.

Everyone will obviously assign whatever emotional response they’ll have as we are all individuals. And I get what you’re saying. I’d prefer another route to a championship. But we’ve failed in all those other routes. So if a Lebron route succeeds I’ll enjoy that suns championship the most. Because it will be the only one we’ve got.

 

[Yuma]

It's Interesting. Ive talked to some Toronto fans and they still love their championship but also teeter back and forth about the price they paid. Most believe the cost to acquire Kawhi was fine, which is what shifted things in their favor, but where they have trouble coming to terms with things is how they followed that championship. They held onto their core too long when Kawhi left which cost them a lot of talent and probably another decade before they're prepared to reasonably make another run.

I can see that being an issue here if it happened also. Of course 1 would be nice but after paying so much for it to blow up in our face I'm on the fence whether it would be worth it to pay more for another limited run.

This is not Toronto's problem they had, but Boston in the eighties wanted to retool, but they held on to their stars too long. Bird was hurt and could hardly play. McHale and everyone else got too long in the tooth to garner much trade interest. It's always that fine line of when you trade a guy.

We had that with CP3. Had we traded him after our final against the Bucks we would have got a lot more for him.

For us, I don't think it will end the way people think. We will pay more for free agents after KD and Beal are gone. Instead of trading for talent, we will go the free agency route. You have an owner willing to go into the second apron, money doesn't seem to be a problem, yet.

 

[Hoop Head]

This is not Toronto's problem they had, but Boston in the eighties wanted to retool, but they held on to their stars too long. Bird was hurt and could hardly play. McHale and everyone else got too long in the tooth to garner much trade interest. It's always that fine line of when you trade a guy.

We had that with CP3. Had we traded him after our final against the Bucks we would have got a lot more for him.

For us, I don't think it will end the way people think. We will pay more for free agents after KD and Beal are gone. Instead of trading for talent, we will go the free agency route. You have an owner willing to go into the second apron, money doesn't seem to be a problem, yet.

Boston had the star that was supposed to carry them from Bird to the next iteration die before playing. Then they suffered another tragedy in the early 90's when Reggie Lewis died. Plus the league was different in the 80's without free agency being the same. You can't really compare how teams were built then to now.

Trading CP3 after the finals run wouldn't have made sense. We weren't supposed to compete that year but we did so we strengthened the bench with McGee and then won a franchise record 64 games. Yes, it fell apart in the postseason but we don't know the reason for that. There was clearly something going on. The time to trade Paul waa after that season didn't pan out, not sooner.

As far as free agents go, we can't even consider that for another 3-4 years because of the deals that Booker and Beal are on. Beal's no trade clause makes him virtually unmoveable. It makes no difference if our owner wants to spend big or not as you can't go over the cap signing players from other teams. We can't bank on retooling with other teams cast offs. Outside of LA or New York, I can't think of an example of a team that became a contender because it signed multiple free agents either. So that isn't exactly a recipe for success.

 

[CardNots]

I can't think of an example of a team that became a contender because it signed multiple free agents either.

Hmmm

 

[Yuma]

Boston had the star that was supposed to carry them from Bird to the next iteration die before playing. Then they suffered another tragedy in the early 90's when Reggie Lewis died. Plus the league was different in the 80's without free agency being the same. You can't really compare how teams were built then to now.

Trading CP3 after the finals run wouldn't have made sense. We weren't supposed to compete that year but we did so we strengthened the bench with McGee and then won a franchise record 64 games. Yes, it fell apart in the postseason but we don't know the reason for that. There was clearly something going on. The time to trade Paul waa after that season didn't pan out, not sooner.

As far as free agents go, we can't even consider that for another 3-4 years because of the deals that Booker and Beal are on. Beal's no trade clause makes him virtually unmoveable. It makes no difference if our owner wants to spend big or not as you can't go over the cap signing players from other teams. We can't bank on retooling with other teams cast offs. Outside of LA or New York, I can't think of an example of a team that became a contender because it signed multiple free agents either. So that isn't exactly a recipe for success.

It depends. We let KD walk, and Nurk. We are under that second apron by a bunch. Then we can sign free agents until we go over the second apron again. Beal will be coming up for his contact end at the same time we possibly extend Booker. So we just have to wait him out a season or two longer than KD or Nurk. I am not worried. Ishbia is hiring better front office guys, in theory, and we will find a way.

 

[Covert Rain]

But it remains the only pro championship this state has ever had and it is cherished.

This. I wouldn't change all the came after for that title no matter how bad it was. If the Suns won a title and sucked for 20 years after it wouldn't change how I felt about that title.

 

[Yuma]

This. I wouldn't change all the came after for that title no matter how bad it was. If the Suns won a title and sucked for 20 years after it wouldn't change how I felt about that title.

You know the downtown parade would be a crushing mass. When it does happen, I hope the consider the numbers of people who want to see that, and extend the parade route accordingly.

 

[CardNots]

You know the downtown parade would be a crushing mass. When it does happen, I hope the consider the numbers of people who want to see that, and extend the parade route accordingly.

and consider 200k+ attended a parade for the suns final loss to the Bulls on a hot summer day. That team was loved by the fans…

 

[Hoop Head]

It depends. We let KD walk, and Nurk. We are under that second apron by a bunch. Then we can sign free agents until we go over the second apron again. Beal will be coming up for his contact end at the same time we possibly extend Booker. So we just have to wait him out a season or two longer than KD or Nurk. I am not worried. Ishbia is hiring better front office guys, in theory, and we will find a way.

It doesn't work like that. If we get under the second apron that just means we have the Mid level Exception. So we replace Nurk and KD with a guy who makes roughly $6 million a year, which is what the tax payer MLE is. That doesn't make us a contender or fill any holes that are created by letting 2 starters walk.

You seem to be confusing the tax apron for cap space. They aren't the same, at all.