30 Million In Cap Space...put up or shut up time!

[john h]

Face it Stout.....you won't be happy unless we spend every last dime on FA's.

I am with Stout. As a fan why not spend every dime. How does giving the Bidwills more money improve this team?

 

[john h]

Well, we have the cap space.
So does every other team.

I'm not so sure I like the impact of this deal on the Cardinals.

It takes several other cap-stressed teams off the hook so that some guys who'd be on the open market for us will no longer be available.

It means that some teams who'd have been unavailable to compete for free agents due to cap problems can now vie with the Cardinals for certain players.

You can't sign draft picks below round one for more than four years - i.e. we're a young team. We get to develop our young players to get them ready to be raided by other teams after four years.

Within the context of the overall agreement, I view the extra cap money as "competitive-neutral" for the Cardinals, and harbor lingering suspicions that, once again, the Bidwills along with a few other teams have been asked to be the "Mikey's" of the NFL so that Dan Snyder doesn't have to pay for past cap sins.

That said, the NFL has a deal. Stability for the next 4 - 6 years has been assured. That's a good thing overall - but not necessarily for the competitive cap position of the Cardinals.

I think as a team we would have been better off if there was no agreement reached. At least for this year. Next year being uncapped would have been a disaster for us. I still wonder if the Bidwills have the resources to spend to the CAP? They can be wealthy but be cash flow poor.

 

[spanky1]

I am with Stout. As a fan why not spend every dime. How does giving the Bidwills more money improve this team?

It's one thing to be a fan but having an eye to the future is how winning teams are built.......also, how does being a fan correlate to spending every last dime in FA?

Has no one an appreciation of the concept of "penny wise, pound foolish"?

 

[Ed Burmila]

It's one thing to be a fan but having an eye to the future is how winning teams are built.......also, how does being a fan correlate to spending every last dime in FA?

Has no one an appreciation of the concept of "penny wise, pound foolish"?

I do. And I also have a concept of "one playoff win in my 28 year lifetime". When you're consistently awful every season it's really hard to credibly argue that you should keep doing things the way you've been doing them. I'd believe them when they preached prudence and financial conservatism....if that had ever actually worked in the past.

My last memory of them holding on to cap space in the season resulted in Clement and Shelton getting contract extensions, McGinnis getting a plane ticket home, and the team winning 4 games (which, in hindsight, was a miracle).

 

[joeshmo]

Whatever.......

Without taking $5-$10MM into next year, how do you propose to have enough cap space to resign those like Dansby, Dockett, Leonard Davis, Step and or Leckey (whoever steps it up this year) and any other potential UFA/RFA that we might have? The cap only increases $7MM for 2007 from 2006.

Dockett, Lecket, Step dont need to have any money spent on them more then they are already making. We can wait till next year to give them a RFA tender offer. That is good business, then worry about extending them after that.

Davis will actually have a lower cap charge next year or even this year if extented, so his name in your equation for keeping 5-10 Mill just doesnt hold any water.

Dansby still has 2 years left on his contract, extending him know is plain old dumb. We do not need to be getting into the habit of extending players with 2 years left on their Contract. Or else everyone will expect it cuasing more problems then needed. He gets a contract extension next year.

As for the cap only going up 7 Mill, that is true but then again a lot of players contracts go off the book in 2007 as well. Hodgins, Shipp, Davis over inflated deal of which any new deal will be half that, Griffith, Macklin, ect.

We will still have 15+ Mill in cap space next year as well, and that is including a generous amount for what the FA's will cost this year and what their cap charges will be next year.

Alos mid season signings can still be done with only 2-3 Mill. Teams do it every year.

If the Cards go into the season with greater then 5 Mill of cap space they once again did not maximize what they could have done in that years FA, once again chasing the furure like we do every year.

 

[jefftheshark]

Having an eye open for "a rainy day" must be a foreign thought to someone who lives in Vegas.

I would reply to this outrageous slam, but I need to get over to the Hilton to bet my kid's lunch money on the UNLV vs. New Mexico game later today.

The Shark

 

[spanky1]

I do. And I also have a concept of "one playoff win in my 28 year lifetime". When you're consistently awful every season it's really hard to credibly argue that you should keep doing things the way you've been doing them. I'd believe them when they preached prudence and financial conservatism....if that had ever actually worked in the past.

My last memory of them holding on to cap space in the season resulted in Clement and Shelton getting contract extensions, McGinnis getting a plane ticket home, and the team winning 4 games (which, in hindsight, was a miracle).

Short memory.....what about Q

 

[Duckjake]

I think as a team we would have been better off if there was no agreement reached. At least for this year. Next year being uncapped would have been a disaster for us. I still wonder if the Bidwills have the resources to spend to the CAP? They can be wealthy but be cash flow poor.

I haven't seen the finer details but it looks like the new CBA will help alleviate cash differentials between the ultra wealthy owners and the wealthy owners.

Without taking $5-$10MM into next year, how do you propose to have enough cap space to resign those like Dansby, Dockett, Leonard Davis, Step and or Leckey (whoever steps it up this year) and any other potential UFA/RFA that we might have? The cap only increases $7MM for 2007 from 2006.

Teams do it all the time. It all depends on how much signing bonus the players will demand. Other than the percentage of that bonus money that has to count for year one doesn't everything else go into future years when they can always restructure again?

Since you mentioned BIG given his current contract it looks like he could be extended and FREE up cap space. Maybe one of our cap guru's could elaborate on BIG's deal.

 

[phillycard]

There is nothing wrong with wanting us to be proactive and aggressive in this FA period. It's only natural when you see other teams make moves, you want the same for your squad. I get tired of hearing how the eagles are targeting so and so. I want us to make some moves. Hell, I'm envious they brought Shawn Barber back!

 

[football karma]

For the last ten years, all fans have heard from the Cardinals is "stadium, stadium, stadium .... it will allow us to compete"

The front office and ownership is now out of excuses. It is now up to them to put (at an absolute minimum) a respectable product on the field.

If they dont -- in two years that stadium will be emptier than SDS was. I hope ownership realizes just how jaded they have made this market, and how little room for error they have.

Frankly, Milford Brown and Kyle Kosier strike me as either trying to fix something on the cheap -- like signing Cameron Spikes, also from the Texans and the worst offensive line in football the year before -- or Denny trying to prove that he is smarter than everyone else.

 

[Duckjake]

If they dont -- in two years that stadium will be emptier than SDS was. I hope ownership realizes just how jaded they have made this market, and how little room for error they have.

Excellent point.

I wonder how many people will continue to show even with the new stadium if the Cards start 1-4 like they have the last 3 seasons.

The Cards are barely an afterthought in the Valley. Outside the Valley most people don't even know they are still in the league.

 

[nidan]

We have been not spending money for years and where is the progress. It is time to take some risk and stop being conservative fuddy duddys.

John when will you admit that just because the Cardinals were poorly managed for several decades, that doesn't mean they arepoorly managed now ?

It takes time to turn an organization around and this one was in the worst shape possible.

 

[vinnymac]

i have been a cardinal fan for 30 years. this is the best i have seen the cardinals managed anything. they started be active in free agentcy and they are drafting better than i haved seen. the cardinals are defintley headed in the right direction. i sure the front office knows that the fans expect results not excuses.

 

[nidan]

When you're consistently awful every season it's really hard to credibly argue that you should keep doing things the way you've been doing them.

There aren't doing things 'way we used to'. How many more times do we have to to hear the lines like

'If they don't do xxxx, then the will still suck' Good grief folks FA hasn't even started yet and the meltdown has begun.

You and many others are willing to believe every rumor or hypothesis for failing that anybody comes up with, long before it actually happens.

The facts are that the Cardinals have been resigning thier own top tier FA to long term deals. Long before they hit the market. They have been doing this for a 2-3 years now. You want evidence that things have changed, well there it is. Q is signed to a long term deal, that a fact that is evidence.

 

[vinnymac]

i agree with you nidan. people are jumping the gun a little here. the offseason hasn't even started and people are predicting doom because the cardinals are not targeting big name fa. the way i see it the patriots didn't target big name fa and they won a superbowl with a 6th round draft pick and bunch of no names.

 

[Stout]

Whatever.......

Without taking $5-$10MM into next year, how do you propose to have enough cap space to resign those like Dansby, Dockett, Leonard Davis, Step and or Leckey (whoever steps it up this year) and any other potential UFA/RFA that we might have? The cap only increases $7MM for 2007 from 2006.

Using all of whatever is left after the rookie pool and allowance for an injury pool is foolhardy and reckless and absolutely poor business planning......and if this makes me an arrogant, puppet-master wannabe (whatever the heck this hybrid of name calling may mean?).....then so be it. Having an eye open for "a rainy day" must be a foreign thought to someone who lives in Vegas.

First off, I live in Virginia, thanks, so down goes your credibility. Second off, the 'name calling' was none such...you attempted to manipulate me and put words in my mouth...I am not a puppet, I defy the arrogance you have in quite incorrectly summing up my opinion, and you're a wannabe because you did it quite poorly. Sorry I had to explain it for you. Maybe you shouldn't attack people like that, so you won't have to try and understand their responses.

And I think Joe made it quite crystal clear why you don't have to lug a ton of cap space into every season. Duckjake helped out too. Name me one Super Bowl team from the last 10 years that entered the season with 10 million dollars of unspent salary cap. I'm going out on a limb, because I haven't researched that, but I'd wager the answer is NONE. Your stance has disintigrated into a cloud of dust.

 

[Tony W]

There is something wrong with all of us. I wake up every couple of hours and watch the ESPN ticker, just to see if we signed anybody. Were sick...SICK I tell ya.

True but I like this sickness, I need it man. It calls to me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

foolhardy and reckless and absolutely poor business planning.......

and the current cardinals way of doing business has success written aaaaall over it . . . sheesh.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We have been not spending money for years and where is the progress. It is time to take some risk and stop being conservative fuddy duddys.

exactly! and when it seems that all the cards' frugality is finally gonna pay dividends what happens? they come up with a new CBA that puts all the "cap-offenders" back in the game so-to-speak, thereby negating a lot of the advantage that we had "gained" (which was only on paper and now won't be realized) for our "frugality" over the years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Excellent point.

I wonder how many people will continue to show even with the new stadium if the Cards start 1-4 like they have the last 3 seasons.

The Cards are barely an afterthought in the Valley. Outside the Valley most people don't even know they are still in the league.

as much as it saddens me, if the cards don't make a splash this offseason and put some success on the field next year, i will stop battling my brother in his attempts to convince my dad not to renew his season tix. that will be four seats that have been filled since day one of the cards existence in the valley that will be empty. i'm sure that we won't be the only ones. they got their stadium. now they have to own up to their words.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

John when will you admit that just because the Cardinals were poorly managed for several decades, that doesn't mean they arepoorly managed now ?

It takes time to turn an organization around and this one was in the worst shape possible.

most bad organizations only take a year or two now. this is not the old nfl. all i've seen are double digit losses from this "new" management. same family, same results as far as i'm concerned.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i have been a cardinal fan for 30 years. this is the best i have seen the cardinals managed anything. they started be active in free agentcy and they are drafting better than i haved seen. the cardinals are defintley headed in the right direction. i sure the front office knows that the fans expect results not excuses.

you know, they've always been active in FA. i mean, the year they signed gary clark, chuck cecil and beurlein everyone was excited. under buddy they signed clyde, joyner, wilbur, booty and traded for rob moore and everyone was excited. so far under green we've picked up warner, okeafor, barry, and macklin who have been good signings (others like huff and obafemi are okay signings, but not impact signings). the constant? 10+ losses.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

. Having an eye open for "a rainy day" must be a foreign thought to someone who lives in Vegas.

Wow thats an ignorant-ass statement

 

[john h]

Like I said Stout.

I have no disagreement except that just spending money is not the same as progess. I do think we need to spend to make progress so we are in about the same place.

I would guess their is a direct relationship between spending money and success on the field. There is also a direct relationship between attendance(money) and success on the field.

 

[joeshmo]

I would guess their is a direct relationship between spending money and success on the field.

You would think so, but it just isnt true.

The top have of highest Payroll teams (amount spent on players not the cap) and the bottom half of lowest payroll teams have the same record, over a 10 year period. Same amount of playoff appearances as well.

Not sure about super bowls but NE and Pitt will make that number out of whack since they are in the lower half.