4th round pick - Logan Thomas QB VT

[Mulli]

A very quick look at college stats, draws to comparisons to Jay Cutler and Kapernick.

 

[Buckybird]

blegh. if it was a choice between a guy with huge upside or McCarron, give me the risk any day of the week.

Huge upside because he was pretty damn bad? Lol I'm trying to understand why people are so intrigued by this kid other than the size, arm & athletic skills...because other than that I just don't see it.

Is it simply because of BA & Moore? I know they are great teachers, but they've also had success with phenomenal 1st round QBs, which isn't a knock on them. IMO the 2 go hand in hand for the most part. All I know is that Wiz wasn't an idiot like many here believe & couldn't develop so-so talent at QB either, thus the comment about talent & coaching. Hmmmm just curious.

I'm curious if anyone who's been a 55% passer in college the last 10 years suddenly became a top 15 QB after they got the proper coaching because I can't think of one. In the age of spread offenses in college most QBs complete 60-65% of their passes & it's become the norm in most cases it seems.

 

[D-Dogg]

Share them Mulli.

 

[Mulli]

Cutler 57.2. Thomas 55.6.

 

[Mulli]

Share them Mulli.

Can't. Baby duty.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Huge upside because he was pretty damn bad? Lol I'm trying to understand why people are so intrigued by this kid other than the size, arm & athletic skills...because other than that I just don't see it.

I think for the most part you just answered your own question. He is also thought to be very smart and a hard worker, which has some people like me believing that if he can indeed make major improvements than he will.

On top of that he has been playing the QB position for only 3 years and has had to adjust to a different OC each year while his supporting cast got less and less talented. The plus side of him having so little experience at the QB position is that at least IMO he should be very mold-able because his bad habbits shouldn't be too deeply ingrained.

 

[Zeno]

On top of that he has been playing the QB position for only 3 years and has had to adjust to a different OC each year while his supporting cast got less and less talented. The plus side of him having so little experience at the QB position is that at least IMO he should be very mold-able because his bad habbits shouldn't be too deeply ingrained.

Where did you get the "3 years" at QB stuff? He was the starting QB at his high school his Jr and Sr year, it's not like he got to Va Tech and they said hey let's make him a QB. Va Tech was the only major college to recruit him as a QB though.

 

[football karma]

blegh. if it was a choice between a guy with huge upside or McCarron, give me the risk any day of the week.

Chris Simms on 910 basically just said that:

if you are going to take a QB late -- dont take one whose upside is backup Qb. Take one that if it works, has top 5 in the NFL physical skills

one perspective I guess

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think for the most part you just answered your own question. He is also thought to be very smart and a hard worker, which has some people like me believing that if he can indeed make major improvements than he will.

On top of that he has been playing the QB position for only 3 years and has had to adjust to a different OC each year while his supporting cast got less and less talented. The plus side of him having so little experience at the QB position is that at least IMO he should be very mold-able because his bad habbits shouldn't be too deeply ingrained.

And a bunch of coaches who have big time reputations for being QB specialists are the ones who drafted him.

Its kind of like when Warren Buffett buys some loser of a company--all of a sudden you want to take a second look. Yeah he could be wrong but . . . .

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Ben extends plays, Thomas runs. He averaged 160 rushes in his 3 years as a starter, that's more than 10 runs a game. And not a very high average per run either.

Ben is certainly unorthodox but he can sit in the pocket and make plays, I really don't see that as something Thomas does well. He's one of those guys if the first guy isn't open he just isn't very good. it's interesting because the 2 most common things young mobile QB's do, are his biggest weaknesses(aside from accuracy), hold the ball too long, and forget about the progressions and look to run.

Most of his highlights are identical, WR running 5 yards behind the defense catches the long bomb, or him running up the middle.

He's a great athlete but I'll be very surprised if Arians has much success with him. The argument that he's just raw is hard to support because he was better as a soph than as a junior or senior. That is the more coaching he got, the more confused he seemed to get. Some of that was losing his running back Wilson of course, but in my mind it was the more of the system they asked him to take on, the worse he got.

Fair enough. I think if he does become a success its because he plays like Ben not Cam but Ill guess well see.

Whoa whoa he had a different OC all last three years. So the coaching was different and apparently they all had much different systems. His last one was apparently putting in NFL passing concepts and one of the reasons BA liked him is because towards end of year he was starting to pick it up and make better reads. He also had no WR talent really any year and especially the last 2. A dollar for anyone who can name a Vtech WR the last 2 years without using Google.

Listen I am not saying this guy is definitely a star. But as many have said take the risk on the guy with elite tools and believe your coaching will help him progress. And if not? Oh well its a 4th round pick.

This isnt the be all end all but ill repost this Cosell article. Number one Greg Cossell is one of the best out there and he put this out prior to the draft. Its an interesting read. If you havent read it I would. And if you have then why did you make the comment about more coaching he recived the worse he got?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-ca...an-cam-newton-was-in-2011--214727831-nfl.html

 

[cardncubfan]

Of course he doesn't see the field well or have a complete grasp of progression. I am also not surprised that he doesn't anticipate any relies to much on arm strength.

He isn't a finished product. He isn't ready to play.

He is a project and one probably worth undertaking.

I am excited about the potential of this pick even though it will be 2 years probably (if at all) before we see the results.

I totally agree with the bolded. BA&SK have said from the beginning that LT is a project. A project well worth gambling on imo.

 

[Russ Smith]

Fair enough. I think if he does become a success its because he plays like Ben not Cam but Ill guess well see.

Whoa whoa he had a different OC all last three years. So the coaching was different and apparently they all had much different systems. His last one was apparently putting in NFL passing concepts and one of the reasons BA liked him is because towards end of year he was starting to pick it up and make better reads. He also had no WR talent really any year and especially the last 2. A dollar for anyone who can name a Vtech WR the last 2 years without using Google.

Listen I am not saying this guy is definitely a star. But as many have said take the risk on the guy with elite tools and believe your coaching will help him progress. And if not? Oh well its a 4th round pick.

This isnt the be all end all but ill repost this Cosell article. Number one Greg Cossell is one of the best out there and he put this out prior to the draft. Its an interesting read. If you havent read it I would. And if you have then why did you make the comment about more coaching he recived the worse he got?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-ca...an-cam-newton-was-in-2011--214727831-nfl.html

What I mean is that his first year as a QB the system he ran was more simple, if the first option isn't open you have the choice to take off and run, or look for the 2nd guy.

They talked about it quite a bit before his junior year he was now much further along and we'd start to see evidence of him going to his 2nd option more, running less. Remember at the start of his junior year he was VERY hyped, heisman talk, first round pick etc.

Then the season started and he was much worse. new OC sure, but it just seemed like 2 things, the league had a scouting report on him, and the new system was asking him to do more than just make one read and then run if nobody was open. The thing is he actually ran MORE as a junior than he did as a soph, and for a slightly lower average.

As a senior new OC again as you said more pro oriented, at least his % came back up a bit but his YPC dropped almost a full yard and he was still running just as much as the prior year.

Maybe the reason we never heard about Va Tech WR's was they weren't very good, maybe it was because he wasn't very good, we'll see.

I don't see the comparison to Newton at all other than they're both big and black. Newton was a MUCH better runner in college, not even close 5.6 YPC his one year at Auburn, and a MUCH better passer 66% 30TD 7 INT. Statistically not even close and Newton played in the SEC.

Hopefully Cosell is right but remember several people who cover the NFL for a living have said there were several NFL teams who didn't even have Thomas on their board as a QB, they had him as a TE.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I totally agree with the bolded. BA&SK have said from the beginning that LT is a project. A project well worth gambling on imo.

Yeah, project. I understood that. But two or more years like some people are saying? I thought he meant not till the second set of downs in the opening preseason game or something like that.

Steve

 

[Arizona's Finest]

What I mean is that his first year as a QB the system he ran was more simple, if the first option isn't open you have the choice to take off and run, or look for the 2nd guy.

They talked about it quite a bit before his junior year he was now much further along and we'd start to see evidence of him going to his 2nd option more, running less. Remember at the start of his junior year he was VERY hyped, heisman talk, first round pick etc.

Then the season started and he was much worse. new OC sure, but it just seemed like 2 things, the league had a scouting report on him, and the new system was asking him to do more than just make one read and then run if nobody was open. The thing is he actually ran MORE as a junior than he did as a soph, and for a slightly lower average.

As a senior new OC again as you said more pro oriented, at least his % came back up a bit but his YPC dropped almost a full yard and he was still running just as much as the prior year.

Maybe the reason we never heard about Va Tech WR's was they weren't very good, maybe it was because he wasn't very good, we'll see.

I don't see the comparison to Newton at all other than they're both big and black. Newton was a MUCH better runner in college, not even close 5.6 YPC his one year at Auburn, and a MUCH better passer 66% 30TD 7 INT. Statistically not even close and Newton played in the SEC.

Hopefully Cosell is right but remember several people who cover the NFL for a living have said there were several NFL teams who didn't even have Thomas on their board as a QB, they had him as a TE.

Good post. My only contention is that had he stayed in the same O as his Soph year (the one read one) by his Senior year there's a good chance he is putting Cam type numbers. Had Cam returned to Auburn and all of a sudden Bill Callahan was calling plays I'm guessing his play would have regressed too. Hell had he come out after a on the rise Soph season I'm sure he would have been a 1st-2nd Rd pick. Or maybe of he had a redshirt year under Urban Meyer that would have led to further advancement. Cant be sure but circumstances and environment were different even though the players possess the same strengths (big, strong, mobile, elite arm) and weaknesses (slow progressions, in accurate, running too quickly) at least as college players they do.

Well see how it plays out. I am quoted as saying this was a project I didn't want to take on prior to drafting but I believe in loving the one your with and at least I get this pick and what they are aiming to do.

There's nothing worse then hating a pick and feeling like there is no bigger picture logic or reasoning to give you comfort that maybe it will be all right because of good coaching or comsistency in a prototype drafting personnel. See Cardinals 2000-2008.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I stated all along that I thought someone would take sooner than expected. I just didn't know it would be the Cards.

Every time I saw him play, he stunk. Btw, Jax friend really likes Thomas's potential. Would have been in play for them in the later rounds if they didn't take Bortles.

 

[BigRedRage]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/113634/battle-for-3rd-spot-starts-for-logan-thomas

 

[oaken1]

Good post. My only contention is that had he stayed in the same O as his Soph year (the one read one) by his Senior year there's a good chance he is putting Cam type numbers. Had Cam returned to Auburn and all of a sudden Bill Callahan was calling plays I'm guessing his play would have regressed too. Hell had he come out after a on the rise Soph season I'm sure he would have been a 1st-2nd Rd pick. Or maybe of he had a redshirt year under Urban Meyer that would have led to further advancement. Cant be sure but circumstances and environment were different even though the players possess the same strengths (big, strong, mobile, elite arm) and weaknesses (slow progressions, in accurate, running too quickly) at least as college players they do.

Well see how it plays out. I am quoted as saying this was a project I didn't want to take on prior to drafting but I believe in loving the one your with and at least I get this pick and what they are aiming to do.

There's nothing worse then hating a pick and feeling like there is no bigger picture logic or reasoning to give you comfort that maybe it will be all right because of good coaching or comsistency in a prototype drafting personnel. See Cardinals 2000-2008.

I am a Cardinals fan....so by definition....I love underdogs,lol..... the more I see of this kid the more I get the impression we may have struck gold here....and I like that the staff appears to have a three year plan to develop him as a starter.... beat Lindley this year....pass Stanton next year,...then move up on Palmer the third year.
The added benefit,....with him running the P squad our defense gets more realistic preparation for our division rivals....it is hard to prepare for a mobile QB when you practice against pocket guys.

IMO what we have here is an example of a player going to a smaller school where the expectations were lower...and riding his athletic ability to success. When this happens often the coaches do not spend much time trying to actually tweak the player...since he is already doing what they need him to do.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

The added benefit,....with him running the P squad our defense gets more realistic preparation for our division rivals....it is hard to prepare for a mobile QB when you practice against pocket guys.

In this case when he wears the red jersey so there is no contact it will be to protect the defensive players instead of the QB.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The underlying story here is the way BA handles the QB position. No more musical chairs trying to motivate a QB and then destroying his confidence. He said that the starting and backup positions are set. Thomas is competing for #3, with a chance to develop into a starter at the appropriate time.

While Palmer might not be the perfect QB, Arians knew what he had in him, and had the patience to let him settle into the job. Stanton is the backup and maybe that is his career position--even when a new starter comes along.

I like the stability.

 

[Mulli]

They give him #6. He is toast. Come on stupid Cardinals.

 

[MadCardDisease]

This isnt the be all end all but ill repost this Cosell article. Number one Greg Cossell is one of the best out there and he put this out prior to the draft. Its an interesting read. If you havent read it I would. And if you have then why did you make the comment about more coaching he recived the worse he got?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-ca...an-cam-newton-was-in-2011--214727831-nfl.html

Nice find! Love the highlight reel. You can really see the arm this kid has. Clearly he can make every throw in the NFL. Plus he has something that none of the other QBs on the team have and that is the threat of running. He kind of looks like Carson Palmer with wheels.

I really can't wait to see if Arians and Co. can mold this kid into a NFL caliber QB. Should be fun to watch.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Well they didn't last year Mike I still would've taken a more proven passer in McCarron

Ya I know they didn't and that may be why he said he'd like to take a QB every year. I bet if you could go back and read the Boston newspapers and message boards they all were saying the samethings about Tom Brady. Why did we waste a pick on a dude that everybody passsed up 5 times. He can't do this and he can't do that. Well you just never know you open up enough oysters and you might find a pearl.

It's a fourth round pick for heavens sake, no different then any other fourth rounder it's a gamble. But then again I like to gamble, so what do I know. Beside our money picks are our fifth rounders so at least we didn't waste that pick on him...

 

[Southpaw]

Huge upside because he was pretty damn bad? Lol I'm trying to understand why people are so intrigued by this kid other than the size, arm & athletic skills...because other than that I just don't see it.

Is it simply because of BA & Moore? I know they are great teachers, but they've also had success with phenomenal 1st round QBs, which isn't a knock on them. IMO the 2 go hand in hand for the most part. All I know is that Wiz wasn't an idiot like many here believe & couldn't develop so-so talent at QB either, thus the comment about talent & coaching. Hmmmm just curious.

I'm curious if anyone who's been a 55% passer in college the last 10 years suddenly became a top 15 QB after they got the proper coaching because I can't think of one. In the age of spread offenses in college most QBs complete 60-65% of their passes & it's become the norm in most cases it seems.

Jake Locker 55 % passer. He sucks.

 

[GuernseyCard]

There's a guy in San Fran who generates TD's who was a 58% passer in College.

 

[Russ Smith]

There's a guy in San Fran who generates TD's who was a 58% passer in College.

Yep, and he averaged 6.9 yards per run 7 or higher his last 3 seasons.

Career high for Thomas was 3.7 and that was 6 carries as a freshman. Thomas averaged 4 yards less per carry over his 4 year college career. Not remotely comparable as a runner.