6-8 million under the cap - wasted

[Rocco]

I'm so tired of this crap.

We're an estimated 6 to 8 million under the cap and we can't get Wilson, one of the few playmakers we have on this team, signed? We can only get 4 role players signed? We can't get Boldin extended? What were we holding on to all that space for?

Bidwill keeps the extra money now. Any signing after this point goes against next years cap, with Wilson and Boldin wanting some deserved raises. No wonder we don't win. Lousy, terrible, pathetic cap management. The Bidwills have no one to blame but themselves. I'll bet the rest of the league's owners see them as a bunch of leeches, riding on the coattails of the rest of the league who actually spend money and take risks to make the league the success that it is.

 

[Rocco]

And another thing. The taxpayers are building them a half a billion dollar stadium and they can't even invest shared league revenues in their on the field product? They've had since last March to do so. And it's any taxpayer that has to go to AZ on business or to visit relatives that is getting hit as well. What a bunch of greedy, cheapskate crap.

 

[slanidrac16]

Chill. The Cards are light years ahead of what they use to be. If you are a relatively new fan, be thankful you haven't been around for the previous 40 years.

 

[Rocco]

Chill. The Cards are light years ahead of what they use to be. If you are a relatively new fan, be thankful you haven't been around for the previous 40 years.

I've been around since '67. And they are not ahead of where they used to be. They've always been cheap. It's just a matter of degree.

 

[ajcardfan]

Rocco, the money can still be spent this year. They can still extend anyone on the roster they want, including Wilson or Boldin. (Personally, I'd hold off on Boldin until next season.) The Cards have spent all of the cap the last three seasons at least. Two of those years, they did extensions in December. This level of frustration would be appropriate after the last game, not now.

 

[slanidrac16]

I've been around since '67. And they are not ahead of where they used to be. They've always been cheap.

If you have been around since 67 (and I don't doubt you), you cannot sit in front of your computer and honestly say that this team hasn't made some strides over the last couple of years.

In the past the money this team spent was done so foolishly and on the wrong players. This is the team that gave Plummer a gazillion dollars which shattered our salary cap and forced us to let players like Centers , Lomas Brown, and Jamir Miller go to other teams.

I'll agree that this team doesn't spend money with the likes of a Daniel Snyder, but when I check the newspaper, the Redskins haven't won any more games than us over the last 2 years.

My point is this team IS changing. We did extend 4 contracts this year and a few last year. In the past this organization NEVER did anything like that. We've hired a REAL head coach. We have signed our draft picks and had them in camp ON TIME. This organization has changed.

One other thing. This new stadium? How much of Bidwills own money is going into it? The answer? Plenty. Do you want to know how much money the Bears owners anteed up? NADA.

Blast them for the past. Be my guest. But to deny that this club hasn't changed it's way of doing business is just.....well........stupid.

 

[Rocco]

Rocco, the money can still be spent this year. They can still extend anyone on the roster they want, including Wilson or Boldin. (Personally, I'd hold off on Boldin until next season.) The Cards have spent all of the cap the last three seasons at least. Two of those years, they did extensions in December. This level of frustration would be appropriate after the last game, not now.

Any extensions will go against next year's cap, which, if they happen at all, lessens the amount of space available to sign players this coming offseason. It's lousy cap management any way you cut it.

 

[Rocco]

If you have been around since 67 (and I don't doubt you), you cannot sit in front of your computer and honestly say that this team hasn't made some strides over the last couple of years.

In the past the money this team spent was done so foolishly and on the wrong players. This is the team that gave Plummer a gazillion dollars which shattered our salary cap and forced us to let players like Centers , Lomas Brown, and Jamir Miller go to other teams.

I'll agree that this team doesn't spend money with the likes of a Daniel Snyder, but when I check the newspaper, the Redskins haven't won any more games than us over the last 2 years.

My point is this team IS changing. We did extend 4 contracts this year and a few last year. In the past this organization NEVER did anything like that. We've hired a REAL head coach. We have signed our draft picks and had them in camp ON TIME. This organization has changed.

One other thing. This new stadium? How much of Bidwills own money is going into it? The answer? Plenty. Do you want to know how much money the Bears owners anteed up? NADA.

Blast them for the past. Be my guest. But to deny that this club hasn't changed it's way of doing business is just.....well........stupid.

Why? Because we're now only 4 years behind the rest of the NFL instead of 10? I'm no fan of Snyder, but can anyone dispute that he wants to win, and is willing to put his money where his mouth is? I'd take an owner like that.

And I don't believe for a second that the Bidwills put a dime into that stadium that they didn't expect to make a quarter from eventually. Don't they own development rights around the stadium?

 

[ajcardfan]

Any extensions will go against next year's cap, which, if they happen at all, lessens the amount of space available to sign players this coming offseason. It's lousy cap management any way you cut it.

Rocco, you are just flat out wrong on this. I would've preferred Wilson signed by now as well, but the cap space remaining can still be used.

 

[Rocco]

Rocco, you are just flat out wrong on this. I would've preferred Wilson signed by now as well, but the cap space remaining can still be used.

I agree that the space can still be used. We can still extend contracts. But any contract extensions done after yesterdays deadline cannot be counted against this year's available 6-8 million, but must count against the cap starting in 2005, correct? Isn't that the reason we were given for keeping so much open cap space during the season the past few years, to extend current contracts against that season's cap? If we're not going to use it on extending players, at least spend it to help the team at some point before the season starts. Who is available to spend it on now, except for marginal (cheap) players who are usually signed at this point as injury replacements?

 

[WizardOfAz]

Personally, I'd hold off on Boldin until next season.

I agree -

 

[black]

If a team can be haunted by cap space years after a particular season, why can't it carry over?

 

[Bobcat]

I agree that the space can still be used. We can still extend contracts. But any contract extensions done after yesterdays deadline cannot be counted against this year's available 6-8 million, but must count against the cap starting in 2005, correct? Isn't that the reason we were given for keeping so much open cap space during the season the past few years, to extend current contracts against that season's cap? If we're not going to use it on extending players, at least spend it to help the team at some point before the season starts. Who is available to spend it on now, except for marginal (cheap) players who are usually signed at this point as injury replacements?

From what I understand if you have been having on going talks with the player and/or his agent the money spent this year will count against this years cap.

Guy's am I right or just blowing smoke???

Allan

 

[azdad1978]

Maybe the management is waiting for the new TV deal to be finalized?

 

[JeffGollin]

6-8 million under the cap - wasted
Rocco - Think of this as a giant shell game where they are moving different players underneath the shells.

They didn't "waste" the $6-8 million, because they used a significant chunk of it to extend Ohalete, Zellner, Hambrick and Hodel instead.

No doubt using 2004 cap money to accomplish this will free up money in 2005, 2006, 2007 etc. to get deals done with Boldin and Wilson.

What the Cards do lose is a bit of financial flexibility in putting together deals with Q and Adrian, because they won't have this year's cap dollars to work with. But this doesn't necessarily mean the cap room was wasted or the deals won't eventually get done.

What is crucial, of course, is that the Front Office stay on good terms with both players and their agents and convince them that (a) they're wanted and (b) Graves, Idzik and the B's are committed to getting the deals done.

 

[ajcardfan]

I agree that the space can still be used. We can still extend contracts. But any contract extensions done after yesterdays deadline cannot be counted against this year's available 6-8 million, but must count against the cap starting in 2005, correct? Isn't that the reason we were given for keeping so much open cap space during the season the past few years, to extend current contracts against that season's cap? If we're not going to use it on extending players, at least spend it to help the team at some point before the season starts. Who is available to spend it on now, except for marginal (cheap) players who are usually signed at this point as injury replacements?

If they sign Wilson tomorrow, they can still use 2004 cap space. In fact, they'll have to make him fit under whatever cap remains. Here's the difference on a hypothetical 4 year deal with a four million dollars bonus and 500 k salary:

Pre November 8th:

We could've absorbed all 4 million dollar bonus on this year's cap, along with Wilson's salary. In future seasons, he would've counted only 500K against the cap. (This is bascially what we did with Shelton and Davis last year, we used much of that 10 mil to absorb their future bonuses.)

Post November 8th:

Under the same deal, Wilson's cap hit would now have to be the bonus divided by 4 (length of the deal) + his salary. So, that would be a hit of 1.5mil a season. I'm pretty sure that his future cap hit would be higher than that since this year is half over, so his deal would actually be spread over 3.5 years instead of 4.


It is a bit of a bummer they didn't extend Wilson, but at least they did something with that space pre November 8th. The guys they did extend, I'm sure they pushed all of their bonus onto the cap this year. I'd guess this was in the range of 2 mil, 3 mil tops. Now, in future seasons, those guys will only count as minimum salaries. So, they can be on the team next year with almost no increase in cap hit. It's not as sexy as a Wilson extension, but it is still better than the cap management this team used to do.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If they sign Wilson tomorrow, they can still use 2004 cap space. In fact, they'll have to make him fit under whatever cap remains. Here's the difference on a hypothetical 4 year deal with a four million dollars bonus and 500 k salary:

Pre November 8th:

We could've absorbed all 4 million dollar bonus on this year's cap, along with Wilson's salary. In future seasons, he would've counted only 500K against the cap. (This is bascially what we did with Shelton and Davis last year, we used much of that 10 mil to absorb their future bonuses.)

Post November 8th:

Under the same deal, Wilson's cap hit would now have to be the bonus divided by 4 (length of the deal) + his salary. So, that would be a hit of 1.5mil a season. I'm pretty sure that his future cap hit would be higher than that since this year is half over, so his deal would actually be spread over 3.5 years instead of 4.


It is a bit of a bummer they didn't extend Wilson, but at least they did something with that space. They guys they did extend, I'm sure they pushed all of their bonus onto the cap this year. I'd guess this was in the range of 2 mil, 3 mil tops. Now, in future seasons, those guys will only count as minimum salaries. So, they can be on the team next year with almost no increase in cap hit. It's not as sexy as a Wilson extension, but it is still better than the cap management this team used to do.

Very interesting and well explained in terms of the NFL requirements.

But I'm curious as to the tax implications for the individual player.

Would he, in effect - have to report his full bonus and his year one new prorated salary in the first tax reporting year?

While understanding of course that there are legal means of deferring, investing, etc. it would nevertheless tax the individual somewhat more.

While disadvantageous for the team, in terms of Cap management... your second outlined option may make more sense for the player.

And, I'm wondering whether these issues, rather than the overall package, are the ones that often hang up a deal.

 

[Russ Smith]

Rocco, you are just flat out wrong on this. I would've preferred Wilson signed by now as well, but the cap space remaining can still be used.

The difference is the bonus. To use the capspace THIS year it has to redo THIS years base salary now. If done yesterday you can sign a 5 year deal with a bonus but spread it over SIX years for cap purposes, can't do that now.

That's why Wilson seemed unhappy, his bonus went down by about 1/6th of whatever it was going to be by not getting the deal done yesterday.

 

[Russ Smith]

If they sign Wilson tomorrow, they can still use 2004 cap space. In fact, they'll have to make him fit under whatever cap remains. Here's the difference on a hypothetical 4 year deal with a four million dollars bonus and 500 k salary:

Pre November 8th:

We could've absorbed all 4 million dollar bonus on this year's cap, along with Wilson's salary. In future seasons, he would've counted only 500K against the cap. (This is bascially what we did with Shelton and Davis last year, we used much of that 10 mil to absorb their future bonuses.)

Post November 8th:

Under the same deal, Wilson's cap hit would now have to be the bonus divided by 4 (length of the deal) + his salary. So, that would be a hit of 1.5mil a season. I'm pretty sure that his future cap hit would be higher than that since this year is half over, so his deal would actually be spread over 3.5 years instead of 4.


.

And that's why it's bad to post something from memory, because right after you post it, someone like AJ will post the REAL situation and you're realize your memory is wrong.

Disregard my previous post, AJ is right the first deadline was to eat the ENTIRE bonus this year, now we can just use this year to prorate the bonus.

 

[pete]

The difference is the bonus. To use the capspace THIS year it has to redo THIS years base salary now. If done yesterday you can sign a 5 year deal with a bonus but spread it over SIX years for cap purposes, can't do that now.

That's why Wilson seemed unhappy, his bonus went down by about 1/6th of whatever it was going to be by not getting the deal done yesterday.

Maybe he should have accepted the Card's offer then. There are trade-offs in every negotiation.

 

[Russ Smith]

Maybe he should have accepted the Card's offer then. There are trade-offs in every negotiation.

Nope I was posting from memory which was wrong, see my next post. Wilson can still get his money now just means we can't count the entire bonus this year.

 

[Shane]

That's why Wilson seemed unhappy, his bonus went down by about 1/6th of whatever it was going to be by not getting the deal done yesterday.

Thats not necessarily true either. He could still get the sixth year he just isnt seeing it in his pocket book this year!

 

[Russ Smith]

Thats not necessarily true either. He could still get the sixth year he just isnt seeing it in his pocket book this year!

Yep, first post was wrong, corrected it after seeing Aj's post.

 

[C-MACK]

It's a step in the right direction. Last year we gave Gilmore a half million dollar signing bonus at the deadline because it was burning a hole in our pockets. That is something to be pissed about.

 

[Shane]

Yep, first post was wrong, corrected it after seeing Aj's post.

Thats why I suspect hes upset. he wants to see the money now since he was only a 3rd rounder he isnt makeing the BIG money yet.