9/22/2004 Insider

sunsfn

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Wednesday, September 22, 2004

By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider


Too early to start talking about the 2005 NBA draft? Forget about it. NBA scouts have been combing high school and international gyms all summer getting ready for the fall basketball season.
Summer might be the dead time as far as basketball goes for NBA players, but everyone else was pretty busy this summer. High school players competed at the three shoe camps, AAU tournaments and at the Global Games.
Some of the top college players represented the U.S. in the Under 21 Tournament of the Americas. They also were camp counselors at the shoe camps as well as counselors at the elite Michael Jordan camp in Santa Barbara this summer. International players were also everywhere.
Several of the top international prospects played for their home country in the Olympics. Many more played at international clinics like Basketball Without Borders, the Adidas Superstar Camp in Berlin or at the European Under 18 Championships in Zaragoza, Spain.
Insider talked to a number of the top NBA scouts around the world to get a quick look at some players who helped and hurt themselves over the summer. On Friday, we'll use the info we gathered to update our Top 5 by position for the first time this year.

The College Kids
No one has done more for his draft stock in the last eight months that Wake Forest point guard Chris Paul. When Insider wrote last March that several scouts claimed he was the best point guard prospect they'd seen since Jason Kidd, we got some snickers -- even from other scouts.
Now, it's tough to find anyone who doesn't believe that Paul won't be the first or second college player taken in the 2005 NBA draft. After finishing the season in stellar form, he led the USA World Championship For Young Men Qualifying Team to an undefeated record and a gold medal finish at the FIBA Americas World Championship For Young Men Qualifying Tournament.
Paul was the unquestioned leader of the squad and averaged 10 ppg and 8 apg for Team USA and thoroughly outplayed his closest competition, Arizona's Mustafa Shakur.
If Paul can build on a strong freshman season, he not only will be the first point guard taken in the draft, he could be the first pick overall.


Paul might emerge as a top overall draft pick soon.
"Now comes the tough part for Paul," one NBA scout told Insider. "Everyone is going to be watching him more critically now. Is he tall enough? Can he shoot it well enough? How's his defense. He's going to get picked apart. The thing that makes me so confident about him is that he has his head screwed on straight. His priorities are in the right place. I just don't see how he's going to fail."
This whole Paul to the NBA next season thing could be just a mirage, however. He's telling everyone he loves college and wants to play all four years at Wake Forest. If he does, he has great company -- Tim Duncan turned down the same overtures for several years.
After Paul, there's a lot of disagreement about who's the next-best point guard in college. The only thing scouts agree on is that -- whomever he is -- he's well behind Paul on their draft boards. North Carolina's Raymond Felton, Georgia Tech's Jarrett Jack and Arizona's Shakur have the most supporters. But scouts claim each player has holes in his game that give the evaluators pause.
Paul wasn't the only college kid turning heads this summer. A couple of scouts ran into Pittsburgh's Chris Taft this summer and walked away raving. According to scouts the 6-foot-10, 250-pound sophomore power forward has lost a little weight, is even more explosive, and is the college player most likely to challenge Paul as the first American taken in the draft.
Some scouts are still spinning over a pick-up game at Michael Jordan's camp in Santa Barbara, where some of the top players in college basketball, including Paul, Raymond Felton, Shakur and others, served as counselors. At night, they scrimmaged against each other and scouts all claim that the best player in the gym for that week was Oklahoma State's Joey Graham.
Graham already has an NBA body, athleticism and great toughness. What he really lacked last year was a consistent jumper. Graham, who stands just 6-foot-7, preferred to do most of his dirty work on the inside, something he's not going to get away with in the NBA. Can he make the transition to the wing in the pros?
"From what I saw & absolutely," one scout said. "He's really worked on his jumper and he was just dominant at times. There aren't many seniors on the radar screen these days. He's going to be a good one."
North Carolina big man Sean May also turned some heads with his rugged play for Team USA in Halifax, though scouts still worry about his lack of height.
One scout claims that Louisville's Francisco Garcia put on 20 pounds of muscle this summer and looks poised for a monster season.
Another is already predicting that New Mexico State's Danny Granger could be the sleeper in next year's draft. Yet another claims that if KU's J.R. Giddens can remain injury free (he's struggled with ankle and foot injuries) he could be the guy to move the furthest up the charts this season.
And there's a major argument going on with scouts about which freshman -- North Carolina's Marvin Williams or UConn's Rudy Gay -- will be this year's Carmelo Anthony.
With so many college players on the rise, is there anyone who isn't making an impression right now? Scouts uniformly seem to have soured on Syracuse forward Hakim Warrick. After projecting him as a potential late lottery pick in 2003, he was downgraded to a mid-to-late first rounder last season. Now . . . scouts act like he's over the hill.
"I just don't think he has a position in the NBA," one NBA scout said. "He's not very skilled except around the basket. But he's just 6-foot-8, is as skinny as a bean pole and doesn't look like he has the frame to fill out. Unless he comes back this fall with a handle and a jumper, I think he slides."
Several scouts also referred to Maryland point guard John Gilchrist as "Stephon Marbury-lite." Given the growing frustration around the league with Marbury, that can't be good.

High School Kids
After the ABCD camp in New Jersey, the Nike camp in Indianapolis and the Adidas camp in Atlanta, followed by several big AAU events like the Big Time in Las Vegas, scouts remain as enamored as ever with the American high school crop -- just not this year's.
Greg Oden, who is starting his junior year this fall and O.J. Mayo, who is ready to begin his sophomore year, both look like sure-fire picks at the top of the draft in 2006 and 2007. This year … it's pretty ugly.
Scouts have been predicting NBA doom for this class all year, but all of them hoped that a player or two would emerge from the summer play. While several players caught their eyes, most prospects hurt themselves more than they helped and no one jumped out as a sure-fire lottery pick.
"This is the worst high school class I've ever seen," one veteran NBA scout claimed. "There are a lot of kids in it who will help their college teams. But NBA teams? I'm not sure that even after four years of college most of these kids will be ready for the NBA. It's awful."
Depending on who you ask Louis Williams, a lightning quick 6-2 shooting guard from Georgia, or Andray Blatche, a 6-11 power forward playing prep ball in Connecticut, are the two players most likely to make the leap to the NBA. However, Williams wasn't great in any of the camps this year and how many 6-2 shooting guards are excelling in the NBA these days? Blatche has the size NBA scouts love, but his decision to show scouts that he was really a 6-foot-11 shooting guard at the ABCD camp backfired. Scouts still love Blatche when he mixes it up down low, but were frustrated by his new found desire to hang out around the perimeter.
Other top high school prospects include Brandon Rush (brother of the Lakers' Kareem Rush), Monta Ellis, Richard Hendrix, Josh McRoberts, Julian Wright, Amir Johnson, Tyler Hansbrough, Tasmin Mitchell and Keith Brumbaugh. Each appears to need lots of college experience before making the leap.
There was, however, one unheralded high school player who played well enough to catch the eye of several NBA scouts. Texas swingman Gerald Green was described by several scouts as the best player at the ABCD camp this summer. He led the camp in scoring and showed a rare combination of athleticism, shooting prowess and maturity.
If any player has a shot at squeaking into the lottery, scouts claim that it's Green, who's already starting to draw the inevitable Tracy McGrady comparisons. Still, scouts acknowledge it's a stretch. "Let's just put it this way," one NBA scout told Insider. "If Green was in the 2004 draft, he would've been drafted after all eight of the high school players in that draft. Josh Smith slipped all the way to 17 and this kid isn't as good as he is. Guys like Green may go higher, but it will only be because there's no one else in front of him."
And scouts are even wavering a bit on the two sure-fire superstuds, Oden and Mayo. Oden, a 7-footer from Indianapolis, was outplayed at the ABCD camp by Blatche and sophomore Derrick Caracter. Oden, who was the hit of the ABCD camp last summer, is an impressive specimen of both size and athleticism, but he still lacks strength and a go-to move in the post. Blatche and Caracter were stronger and gave him trouble. What happens when he gets to the NBA? The question is probably moot because of his size and position. Athletic American 7-footers who can play with their back to the basket are rare commodities; that fact should keep Oden at the top of scouts charts for 2006 regardless of his performance at camps like these.
Mayo was absolutely dominant everywhere he played this year. But shouldn't he be? The fact that Mayo is the oldest sophomore in the country might have something to do with it. Mayo was born Nov. 5, 1987 which, at the high school level, gives him a clear advantage over others in his class. "He's two years older than most of the players he's playing against … he should be dominating them," one NBA scout said. Still, scouts won't be that deterred. Several already call him the best high school point guard in the country, impressive praise for a sophomore. And at 6-4, with great athleticism and court vision, he'll be a sure-fire hit in the NBA. But you're going to have to wait awhile.

International Players

There's very little mystery these days about the top young international players in the world. NBA teams are now spending millions of dollars to go overseas and keep track of the best and brightest and the word is getting out quickly.
Last year, three players rose from obscurity onto the NBA radar screen: They are Nemanja Aleksandrov of Serbia, Martynas Andriuskevicius of Lithuania and Rudy Fernandez of Spain. With huge targets now on their backs, and plans to enter the 2005 NBA draft, how did they fare this summer?
No one helped himself more than Fernandez. He looked awesome playing for the Spanish national team in the Olympics. He did not play like one of the youngest players in the tournament. He was confident, aggressive and seemed to give the Spanish team a big burst of energy every time he stepped on the floor.


Fernandez knows no fear, according to one NBA scout.
"The kid is gritty and aggressive," one NBA scout told Insider. "He won't back down from anyone. If he was playing against Vince Carter, he'd try to dunk on him. He just has no fear. He's also got the athleticism that is pretty rare for Europeans. I think he's going to be a fantastic prospect."
Others aren't as sure. One scout claims that Fernandez's body is "underdeveloped" and believes he'll struggle to stay healthy in the NBA. Others question his size (they claim he's closer to 6-4) and his seeming unwillingness to play the point. "He's got all the skills to play the point guard position, but I've been told he just won't do it. He's fantastic on the wing, but in the pros, I think he'd have to play a little point too to make the biggest impact."
Andriuskevicius looked solid at the European Under-18 Championships in Zaragoza. He averaged 16.9 ppg and 13.4 rpg there, but didn't exactly dominate. He is very skilled for a 7-3 player, but still needs to get stronger if he's going to make an impact in the league. "His skill set is fantastic, but he disappears from games," one NBA scout said. "If things get physical, he doesn't always fight for it. That will come with time. Another year playing with Arvydas Sabonis is really going to help this kid. I think everyone has high hopes for him, but he's not there yet."
Aleksandrov was the biggest disappointment, though rumors that his draft stock is free falling are a bit premature. Scouts were blown away by his performance in the camps last year, when he was 16. He was just so-so, however, at a tournament in Manheim, Germany, the Reebok Eurocamp in Treviso and at the Under 18 Championships in Zaragoza. He averaged 16 ppg and 8 rpg in Zaragoza, but once again struggled with his perimeter shot and looked passive much of the time. Scouts expect to see some fire from young Serbia players, but Aleksandrov hasn't really shown that yet.
That fact is starting to scare some scouts, who boldly predicted last year that he'd be the No. 1 pick in the 2005 draft. Still, no one is ready to write him off either. "From a skill standpoint, he's probably the most skilled 17-year-old big guy I've ever seen," one NBA international scout told Insider. "He has Toni Kukoc-like skills. His issues are well known. He doesn't play with a lot of passion. He doesn't seem to have a killer instinct. But we've got to keep reminding ourselves that he's just 17.
"He had a huge target on his chest this summer. Everyone was trying to shut him down. He still managed to put up pretty good numbers and was effective in the paint. I just think people expected him to improve dramatically the past year and he didn't. But that may say more about the situation he's in than his talent. In my mind, he's still one of the top five or six prospects for next year."
We'll see. No one denies the talent. But NBA GMs have tired on fundamentally sound Europeans who look great in workouts and struggle in actual games. Aleksandrov might not fit into that category, but as the backlash grows more severe, he may suffer from it anyway.
France's Johan Petro was also trying to turn a positive performance in the Reebok Eurocamp into some draft buzz at Zaragoza. He averaged 14 points and 10 rebounds a game there, but many scouts are concerned about Petro's work ethic and just average athleticism. "He left Treviso with a list of things he really needed to work on," one scout told Insider. "Some of them were simple things like working on his flexibility and lateral quickness -- little drills you do to improve things like that. He didn't work on them. It was clear he was the same player. That's disappointing."

A few new players also appeared on the radar screen after a solid summer. Spanish point guard Sergio Rodriguez was the star of Zaragoza. He looked like a little John Stockton out there running the offense to perfection and hitting an impressive 50 percent from the 3-point line for the tournament. That's great news for Rodriguez, who was positively awful at the Nike Hoop Summit in San Antonio last spring. After seeing him play consistently well in Zaragoza, scouts seem willing to let the Hoop Summit disaster slide.
"I thought he was great," one NBA scout told Insider. "He has great floor vision and really understands the game. He's very clever and it looks like his outside shot is improving. I still question whether he has the quickness to create his own shot in the NBA or to guard anybody, but he's a legit prospect. It may take him another year or two to be ready for the NBA, but we'll be watching."

We first wrote about Oleksiy Pecherov, a 6-11 forward from the Ukraine, last spring after he came out of nowhere to be one of the top players at the Reebok Eurocamp.
Since then he's went from intriguing player to big-time NBA prospect with a dominating performance at the Global Games in Dallas. He had 31 points and 13 boards in the championship game. He averaged 24 ppg and 10 rpg for the tournament, leading the Ukraine to a surprise gold medal there. His ability to do just about everything -- shoot, rebound, defend and block shots -- have made him a big hit. His work ethic and leadership also made him a coaches' favorite at the Eurocamp. He might be another year or two away, but he's definitely one of the top 10 international prospects in the world now.
Another player that first hit the radar screens at the Reebok Eurocamp, Saer Sena, a 7-footer from Senegal who owns an amazing 7-foot-7½ wing span (only Jamaal Magloire has a wider reach among NBA players), improved dramatically over the summer.
He played again for NBA scouts at the Adidas Superstar Camp in Berlin and at the Africa 100 camp in Johannesburg and impressed at both places. He's still raw and a too skinny, but he's very bouncy and shows a lot of aggressiveness, especially in blocking shots. Scouts claim that it was close to impossible for anyone to get a shot off near him. He'll move on to Europe this year to begin playing against better competition. If he improves, he'll get a lot of love.
The biggest disappointment of the summer may have come from the guy many considered Europe's brightest star. Turkish forward Ersan Ilyasova was dominant in junior tournaments in the spring and summer, but suffered a serious injury this summer. Folks in Turkey are keeping quiet about the nature or extent of the injury, but several NBA scouts who inquired were told that he's already had two surgeries and isn't expected to play anytime soon. That's a major blow to a guy some scouts believed might be a better prospect than Aleksandrov.
 

hcsilla

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I liked Joey Graham's enthusiasm and toughness but I seriously doubt that he will make the transition to SF. He looked like as a bit more athletic version of Malik Rose.
 

Bada0Bing

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sunsfn, if you don't mind me asking, how do you copy the text at Insider? It won't allow me to copy. I'm just curious. Thanks.
 

coloradosun

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My forecast is that Stephen Hunter will prove to be the answer in the middle for the Suns this season and will be given a long term contract after the season. All of the big men mentioned for the draft will take too long to develope. I would hope that we target Jarret Jack next year for the long term replacement for Steve Nash. My assessment could change if Barbosa improves his skills at running the point, then Petro might be the option as a backup to Hunter.
 

slinslin

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Jarrett Jack sucks in my opinion based on 2 games I saw. I didn't see any PG ability from him.
I'd take Chris Paul, Mustafa Shakur and probably quite some other PGs before Jack.
I think the Suns will take the best player available and trade a veteran or trade the pick if it is not a F/C or C.

Lets not forget that even if Barbosa doesn't devellop the Suns still have the rights to Milos Vujanic as well.
 

PhxGametime

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Jack averaged 5.0 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 2.0 steals at PG - other than Shakur (thin last year) has the best size out of Paul, Felton, D Washington, and Gilchrist. IMO all 6 are talented but Suns do have Nash, Barbosa, and possibly Vujanic next year, with JJ capable at PG.

Graham is my #8 rated SF and Marvin Williams #5 (he didn't impress me as much as others apparently) only 2 games to go by though and he has high reviews. Rudy Gay #2 SF, is the H.S Prospect that impressed a lot (Randolph Morris #1 C, impressed against Dwight Howard and with size too).
 

George O'Brien

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Obviously things will look different next spring, but right now it looks like the Chicago pick may be more valuable as trade bait than in taking a player.
 

The Commish

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I know its early to be thinking about it but if we want to take a big guy why not go for a guy like Channing Frye? I know hes not exactly deserving of a top 5 pick, but last I checked he was a good shot blocker, a smart player, and seems to know what hes doing on the offensive end. Just a thought...
 

PhxGametime

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Channing Frye is my #4 rated PF ;) - I am UofA fan though. Frye and Stoudemire frontline could work similar to McDyess/Stoudemire but right now Frye could slip to the Suns own Draft Pick (14-20 range), depends on who comes out.

Morris was impressive in the H.S game against Howard (Joe Mama I believe was impressed with him as well) played okay in McDonald's - Aldridge based on potential could be a top Pick. Taft is similar to Aldridge but has college experience - both could have Dalembert potential or well Steven Hunter (although I like Hunter) IMO Morris is safer pick going into season, with less potential. Those would be decent possibilities with Bulls Pick.

Channing Frye, Torin Francis, Ronny Turiaf, Alexander Johnson, Sharrod Ford, Martin Iti, and Jason Frasser could be decent PF picks with Suns Pick... Andrew Bogut and Tiago Splitter international PF's (but with Lampe and Cabarkapa). There are a lot of undersized PF's - Leon Powe, Wayne Simien, Sean May, Sheldin Williams, Lawrence Roberts, etc. Marvin Williams could play either Forward position - there are a lot of big players with 1st Round potential but a Center is biggest need, although I'm not sure what Center would be available for the Bulls Pick? I'd like to see how Aldridge and Taft perform this year...
 

George O'Brien

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I agree. Unless someone really takes off, it may make more sense to use the Suns pick on one of the big men rather than the Chicago pick.

Of course, my fear is that the Bulls will finish in the top three in the lottery and the Suns won't get the pick. The Bulls look like a really really bad team. :shrug:
 

The Commish

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I like Taft too, I think he has the room to bulk up even more as well. We'll just have to wait and see...my guess is though that by season's end Taft will be a Top 10 pick due to the lack of American big men available.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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George O'Brien said:
Of course, my fear is that the Bulls will finish in the top three in the lottery and the Suns won't get the pick. The Bulls look like a really really bad team. :shrug:


I think that Deng and Gordon should help them a lot. Also, I think there will be a benefit by subtraction with Crawford gone now.

In theory, Eddy Curry should work his butt off this year to lock up a big deal this summer. This season will be a make or break year for him. I don't think they will win the east or anything, but the playoffs are in the realm of possibility IMO.


I would guess that they actually come out with the 7th or 8th draft pick this year.
 

elindholm

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Knowing the Suns' luck, the Bulls will win the lottery in spite of being a not-terrible team. And then next year they'll make the playoffs.
 

PhxGametime

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I just recieved my Lindy's Pro and College Basketball Previews Mags today - 2 players I listed in my top-10 Centers (to fill out list) that are PF's got some love in both: Paul Davis and Josh Boone, Courtney Sims another player but I think he's raw - got love in both mags and the Pro only lists top 30 Prospects. James Augustine the 1 player that I don't quite have in my top-10 PF's but just outside, is top-11 in Lindy's (Center on theirs but players are listed by college position) David Lee was #10 PF in Lindy's (just outside of mine) - anywho, the point is along with International, there are several quality PF types. Even a few I haven't seen, not high on (Ike Diogu ;) UofA fan though) etc. I just remembered Brian Butch (McDonalds All-American that red-shirted last year) - a ton of PF's :D
 

George O'Brien

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Ike Diogu is only about 6'7" which means he is likely to last until the second round. I really like Ike, but strictly as a backup in the NBA.
 

PhxGametime

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I'm not high on him and a UofA fan but 2nd Round is acceptable - Craig Smith is another 6'7 PF, although he doesn't have range that Ike does. Two sophomores that I have listed on Future Prospects (about 15 of them) Mohamed Abukar (Florida) and Ekene Ibekwe (Maryland) sheesh I'm obessed, didn't seem to gain much weight according to Magazine but could put up numbers... I always look through conferences Best NBA Prospects (right now only small schools) and there were five 6'10+ Seniors as best Prospects for their conferences (all that I haven't seen). With so many PF's available, there should be quite a few that stay in college though?
 

Joe Mama

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If Diagu plays as well as he has the last two seasons for ASU someone will grab him in the second half of the first round. You guys are right that he almost certainly will not be an NBA starter, but he should be one hell of a player coming off the bench.

It seems like NBA teams are starting to pay more attention to that standing reach measurement. Ike may only be 6'7" or 6'8" in shoes, but he's Those arms down to his ankles.

Joe Mama
 

coloradosun

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From what I saw of Jarret Jack is that he is a Stephon Marbury that does not have to score. Great defensive skills, sharp passer and not afraid to go to the lane. Vujanic will be a chucker and will want to score, its the Euro mentality. I would trade Vujanic for Jack any day.
 

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