A Failed Experiment?

[Krangodnzr]

Quick thoughts. I thought the O-Line did a good job of pass defense, but no running lanes.

The SF win looks more like they beat a depleted team. They might finish last in the West.

If Murray is the problem, who chose him after years of observing his play and trying to recruit him?

I’m not saying this is the worst team ever. I’m saying I overrated them and the Niners. I’m sorry but what is better this year than the play the second half of last year? Where's the growth? Where’s the creativity?

This just doesn't make sense. The Niners defense was at full strength.

 

[BritCard]

This just doesn't make sense. The Niners defense was at full strength.

We had a ST's turnover and a 20 yard field for our first TD, Kyler ran 13 times for over 100 yards and they had Jimmy G and 3rd string receivers. Those three things are why we won. Kyler only had a 78 passer rating in that game and his yards per attempt was only 5.75.

If we want to win with him on current form he has to run it 10+ times.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think Kliffs playcalling is a far bigger problem than Murray at the moment.

Kliff is not instilling confidence in his QB and is not calling plays that provide balance in moving the ball vertically at all.

I am surprised this offense hasn't morphed into a poor mans version of the chiefs.

This is where I don't follow. How can anybody say we're trying to be like the Chiefs? We want to be sure but the Chiefs have speed all over the field. Their TE is one of the best in the NFL, their rookie RB a bunch of us loved pre draft, way better than Drake so far. Their slowest Wr is Sammy Watkins, he ran a 4.46 at the combine in 2014. he's not as fast now but compared to Fitz or Johnson he's a burner. Andy is fast but not Tyreek Hill or Hardman fast, partly because Andy seems to always slow up during his route when he looks for the ball.

If we want to be the Chiefs we need to play Andy more, get Kirk healthy, and play Edmonds more than we play Drake.

And of course Kyler has to play much better to come close to what Mahomes is.

If we wanted to be the Chiefs we should have drafted Lamb or Jeudy.

 

[Russ Smith]

We are top 4 in the NFL in scoring TDs in the red zone and perfect on 4th down, but we have a broken scheme...I don't get where you all are getting this.

The red zone is where you see the scheme. Between the 20's is where you see how the QB is playing.

Our scheme is fine. Kliff is refining his playcalling overall. Murray is just struggling to adjust to how NFL defenses have adjusted to him.

R E L A X
(unless we are talking about Vanilla Vance Joseph and Isaiah Simmons, then you can lose your mind)

IT goes both ways though. The reason we are so good in the redzone is Kyler Murray is such a threat to run. The TD to the TE in the last game he had 2 guys open, one completely uncovered. He threw to the less open guy and converted it, the whole reason that play was so open is they saw the multiple TE set and the pre snap action and thought we were going to run it, probably with Kyler.

So yes he's missing plays and he's a big reason the offense isn't better between the 20's, but when we get in the redzone the reason we're so good, is Kyler Murray.

inside the 20 this year he's 13-14 for 7 TD's and he's run 5 times for 30 yards and 2 more TD's.

Inside the 10 he's 5-6 for 5 TD's and one rushing TD. He personally has had the ball 8 times inside the 10 yard line and has produced 6 TD's in those 8 plays.

So you have to give him credit for what he's doing well, and he has to work on what he's not doing well

 

[PACardsFan]

But this isn't Jackson's 2nd year, it's his 3rd. He opened up his 2nd season on fire. Anyway, that's bye the bye. I didn't expect him to to elite how the gate, but also didn't expect bad.

Also you list of ranking is what they are now, they are somewhat boosted by playing us. Before the game the Panthers were 25th in passing yards allowed to opponents, now they are 7th.

Justin Herbert put 330 yards on them in his 2nd NFL game.

Nobody is writing Kyler off, but the last 2 games he has been really poor. Which is concerning because neither team is anywhere near close to top tier.

Jackson didn't have to deal with a Covid offseason going into his 2nd season. Justin Herbert also threw a pick & fumbled twice in that game. The last 2 games have been below average for Murray, but I disagree that he was "really poor". 3 picks against Detroit was bad, but he also compensated for that by throwing for 2 & running for another touchdown. And he did throw 3 tds. against Carolina, slightly offset by his fumble. Hard to put up too many yards when the opposing team has the ball for 38 minutes. If our D even occasionally made a stop, Murray would have had better stats. Glad to hear that Budda is back. Those that have said he was overrated only had to watch last week's game to see how important he is to our D.

 

[Harry]

Et tu, Brutus. I can't believe what I am reading, especially from Harry.

2 weeks ago we were on our way to the playoffs. Now everyone seems to be jumping ship. Holy Cow! Glad I didn't marry most of you. It wouldn't have lasted past a couple weeks.

Maybe you guys need some couples counselling. I have a opening for this Friday at 9:30 am, if you and Kliff are available.

I fully admit I deceived myself about the direction of this team. I’ve written I overrated SF and drew false confidence as a result. The Cards struggled to put away easily the WFT who I thought a good team would handle. They have since decided to sit their QB. I thought the Cards likely took that win for granted. The loss to the otherwise winless Lions team seriously sparked my concern. That team now, despite beating the Cards, has the third worst point differential in the NFL.

Before the game I mentioned the Panthers were a team on the rise. However even if losing I expected the Cards to be competitive. They weren’t. They got beaten thoroughly in every aspect of the game. Keep in mind Carolina came in with a losing record. By the way they still have a negative point differential despite beating the Cards by 10.

So I decided to go back, start over and compare this team to the losing team that finished last season with some promise. I first looked at the schedule. To get to the 9 wins I felt possible, I expected them to start 4-1. Now even 3-2 is not assured. So we’re talking about 8-8 even if they right the ship.

I also expected a vastly improved defense based on an active #21 for those first 5 games. I expected an improved pass rush based adding Phillips & Kennard. Both are tending for 8 sacks which almost equals last year’s total performance, but I had expected them to take the heat off Jones who was anticipating challenging the single season record. He has 1 sack. Yes, they’ve had injuries in the secondary. However, not really to their top players, except Baker. Who has missed only 1 game. They have the wrong DC.

However, what really is my major concern is the offense. I think many of us believed the Cards would win high scoring games. They’re averaging 24.5 points a game despite being relatively healthy. Their running game mostly comes from their QB. If he doesn't run, this team has no major running threat.

They have 1 productive pass receiver. I thought they had a solid group, but Murray’s performance has reduced the threat from receivers not named Hopkins. Hopkins hurts his ankle; no passing game.

The step forward I expected from the offense as a whole to take seems at best to be a step sideways. Bringing in arguably the best NFL receiver has not improved the team’s ability to score.

I wish I could say I correctly anticipated these failures. I didn’t. When faced with new facts I’m willing to say I was wrong. Now facing an overall stronger remaining schedule and having squandered an easy early season schedule, I see no reason for playoff optimism.

What has Joseph added to the defense? What has Kingsbury added to the offense? Does anyone think this offense is as good as BA’s playoff teams? It’s fine to say Murray has less experience that some QBs at this point. However, that means there’s many things he hasn’t proven he can do. Is he markedly better than last season? Is KK the coach to develop him? Has he improved him so far other than telling him to run more? Where’s the improvement in QB technique? It was sure more fun when I was deluded!

 

[BritCard]

I fully admit I deceived myself about the direction of this team. I’ve written I overrated SF and drew false confidence as a result. The Cards struggled to put away easily the WFT who I thought a good team would handle. They have since decided to sit their QB. I thought the Cards likely took that win for granted. The loss to the otherwise winless Lions team seriously sparked my concern. That team now, despite beating the Cards, has the third worst point differential in the NFL.

Before the game I mentioned the Panthers were a team on the rise. However even if losing I expected the Cards to be competitive. They weren’t. They got beaten thoroughly in every aspect of the game. Keep in mind Carolina came in with a losing record. By the way they still have a negative point differential despite beating the Cards by 10.

So I decided to go back, start over and compare this team to the losing team that finished last season with some promise. I first looked at the schedule. To get to the 9 wins I felt possible, I expected them to start 4-1. Now even 3-2 is not assured. So we’re talking about 8-8 even if they right the ship.

I also expected a vastly improved defense based on an active #21 for those first 5 games. I expected an improved pass rush based adding Phillips & Kennard. Both are tending for 8 sacks which almost equals last year’s total performance, but I had expected them to take the heat off Jones who was anticipating challenging the single season record. He has 1 sack. Yes, they’ve had injuries in the secondary. However, not really to their top players, except Baker. Who has missed only 1 game. They have the wrong DC.

However, what really is my major concern is the offense. I think many of us believed the Cards would win high scoring games. They’re averaging 24.5 points a game despite being relatively healthy. Their running game mostly comes from their QB. If he doesn't run, this team has no major running threat.

They have 1 productive pass receiver. I thought they had a solid group, but Murray’s performance has reduced the threat from receivers not named Hopkins. Hopkins hurts his ankle; no passing game.

The step forward I expected from the offense as a whole to take seems at best to be a step sideways. Bringing in arguably the best NFL receiver has not improved the team’s ability to score.

I wish I could say I correctly anticipated these failures. I didn’t. When faced with new facts I’m willing to say I was wrong. Now facing an overall stronger remaining schedule and having squandered an easy early season schedule, I see no reason for playoff optimism.

What has Joseph added to the defense? What has Kingsbury added to the offense? Does anyone think this offense is as good as BA’s playoff teams? It’s fine to say Murray has less experience that some QBs at this point. However, that means there’s many things he hasn’t proven he can do. Is he markedly better than last season? Is KK the coach to develop him? Has he improved him so far other than telling him to run more? Where’s the improvement in QB technique? It was sure more fun when I was deluded!

One thing I noticed when watching back.

Last year we ran much more out of 10 personnel than we have this year. We have had a lot of 12 on runs and both TEs can't block worth a damn. One of the fun things about last year was the run scheme from 10.

And the opposite is true, lots of running from 12 and less passing. In these respects it's become much more "normal".

 

[Russ Smith]

One thing I noticed when watching back.

Last year we ran much more out of 10 personnel than we have this year. We have had a lot of 12 on runs and both TEs can't block worth a damn. One of the fun things about last year was the run scheme from 10.

And the opposite is true, lots of running from 12 and less passing. In these respects it's become much more "normal".

Are you sure? Not picking on you but I'm looking at split stats for Drake right now and it says he had ONE CARRY last year with 4Wr's on the field. 142 with 3 and 6 with 2. This year he already has 6 carries with 4 WR's on the field. And frankly that's what I thought and I've been saying it for 2 weeks now, to get more speed on the field we bring Andy in but it's usually in 4Wr sets and we're still not very good in the 4WR sets. Drake's stats are skewed from few games his highest YPC is with 0 Te's but that's in part for like last week where he got a couple of good runs late when we were way behind.

 

[BritCard]

Are you sure? Not picking on you but I'm looking at split stats for Drake right now and it says he had ONE CARRY last year with 4Wr's on the field. 142 with 3 and 6 with 2. This year he already has 6 carries with 4 WR's on the field. And frankly that's what I thought and I've been saying it for 2 weeks now, to get more speed on the field we bring Andy in but it's usually in 4Wr sets and we're still not very good in the 4WR sets. Drake's stats are skewed from few games his highest YPC is with 0 Te's but that's in part for like last week where he got a couple of good runs late when we were way behind.

No I'm not sure and this is only from watching the Panthers game which was one of our worse running games

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I guess I am presently a glass half full guy regarding our team. I certainly haven't always been, that's for sure. But I do feel we are a middle of the pack, probably average team at present, with legitimate playoff hopes. This is better so much better than most of our history, especially for us long time older fans. We have a much more exciting team than previously, and things are looking up from where our reality has been recently. I admit, not up maybe, from where our lofty expectations may have been for most of us.

This "experiment" which some have called it, is only been going for 1 season + 4 games. Got a long way to go yet in development and experience. I personally are loving our season so far and the hope I feel for our future. Yes, losses always hurt to teams you feel you should beat. But that is what separates the average from the elite teams, for the most part.

PS. Listen to me telling you much stronger devoted Cards fans to have more trust and patience. I guess I just see the glass more than half full in my old age, and am ecstatic to finally have a more exciting team to root for in my last months and years.

 

[THESMEL]

Live by the pass die by the pass, that simple

 

[Arealist]

Kliff was brought here for his offensive mind. What we have seen over the past 2 weeks indicates he has had too many concussions. I have news for you Kliff, you are NOT cool when you remove the entertainment value of our home team with your bleeping screens and horizontal play. Yuck!

 

[Buckybird]

Good post Harry.

Vance Blowseph should’ve never been hired based off past performance. Kliff as well.

The sad thing is if I’m a betting man, VJ gets fired no later than the end of the season & Kliff survives 1 more season. I was never a fan of his hiring based off watching most of his Tech games since the step daughter went to school in Lubbock.

Another year, another year of poor coaching.

 

[GatorAZ]

Good post Harry.

Vance Blowseph should’ve never been hired based off past performance. Kliff as well.

The sad thing is if I’m a betting man, VJ gets fired no later than the end of the season & Kliff survives 1 more season. I was never a fan of his hiring based off watching most of his Tech games since the step daughter went to school in Lubbock.

Another year, another year of poor coaching.

Vance is the McCoy of DC’s. That’s two years in a row Keim has hired a crappy coordinator just because he wanted an ex-HC to pair with his rookie HC.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Live by the pass die by the pass, that simple

Yeah that Chief offense sucks with their reliance on the pass.

 

[DVontel]

Vance is the McCoy of DC’s. That’s two years in a row Keim has hired a crappy coordinator just because he wanted an ex-HC to pair with his rookie HC.

Both coming from Denver, too.

 

[cardpa]

Did anyone ever think part of the problem is this team really has no head coach? No captain steering the ship?

 

[BritCard]

Both coming from Denver, too.

Maybe we can get Fangio next? Or do we only get the bad coaches?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Good post Harry.

Vance Blowseph should’ve never been hired based off past performance. Kliff as well.

The sad thing is if I’m a betting man, VJ gets fired no later than the end of the season & Kliff survives 1 more season. I was never a fan of his hiring based off watching most of his Tech games since the step daughter went to school in Lubbock.

Another year, another year of poor coaching.

Great nickname.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Vance is the McCoy of DC’s. That’s two years in a row Keim has hired a crappy coordinator just because he wanted an ex-HC to pair with his rookie HC.

Good analogy.

 

[JeffGollin]

Nice post. What’s your theory? How about contributing something of substance?

Kyler has growing pains. The team came out flat and was out want-to'd.

When things go south, it's easy to make sweeping generalizations about the coaching.

What's. my "theory?" Coach better/play better (We're moving toward mid-season and perpetuating a rash of personnel and strategic changes is likely to be self-defeating).

I think we're stuck with what we've got, and it will be up to everyone on the team drawing a paycheck to search deep within themselves, take a long hard look at strengths and weaknesses and focus on improving execution snap after snap, rep after rep and play after play.

I think the team has the resources to win half or more of its remaining games. What's up in the air is whether they suck it up and play harder and smarter. (They could just as easily go 4 & 12 as they could 10 & 6).

That's my theory. No magic formula. No secret sauce. That's all I got.

 

[Harry]

Jeff, they may have the personnel but not the coaching.

 

[Buckybird]

Did anyone ever think part of the problem is this team really has no head coach? No captain steering the ship?

Yep they hired a failure at HC who was glorified OC & made him their HC just because the J-e-t-s Jets Jets Jets were about to hire him as their OC

 

[SeattleCard]

Harry was right.

 

[Solar7]

Here to back Harry.