A New Way of Regarding the Cards' 2007 Draft

[Mitch]

You dont have to trust it, but I know it to be a fact. Someone even posted an article about it in one of these long threads.

You either think I am just making it up or you don't want to believe it since it doesn't line up with what your perception is.

I don't have any question at all about teams being more willing to cut their losses with higher draft picks who just aren't cutting it.

Proof? Would Dennis Green have ever cut his 3rd rounder? Never. No matter how poorly the kid played, with Green the kid would have gotten a free pass, which is one of the many reasons why the game passed Green by.

Coaches are now concerned with their credibility when they elect to keep a higher draft pick who is clearly being out-performed by another player. The players know favortism when they see it, and that doesn't sit too well with today's NFL players, not after they've tolied their asses off under sweltering heat throughout the pre-season, while the coaches preach commitment and performance.

 

[joeshmo]

Who wouldn't have taken Moses over Davis? Are you kidding me? Pass rushers of Moses' ilk are few and far between.

Well considering the cards didn't look at a single pass rusher in the off season, did look at some linebackers, decided to not draft one in the draft, and there were others that were selected past Buster, you have to be making a giant leap to say without certainty such as you are that the Cards would have taken Moses over Buster.

Sure it would have been even more sublime to claim Moses and still have a third rounder...but, it's all the more auspicious that the Cards were able to recover a lost third round pick with a higher third round pick at a position of dire need.

They didnt recover a 3rd rounder. They lost one, lost 600K in cap space and got a waiver claim. Nothing else nothing more. Its like saying Holt a former 5th rounder pick makes up for the 6th rounder we wasted on Gorin. You dont recover a wasted draft pick by signing a free agent.

How can anyone, especially you, Joe, not see this as a fortuitous bounce in the Cardinals' direction?

Never said it wasnt a fortuitous bounce. Not once. But getting that bounce does not take the place of a lost 3rd rounder. It is a lost 3rd rounder and a waiver claim. I dont know why people are trying to spin it as anything but. Just to make your self feel better about completely whiffing on a 3rd rounder.

 

[Garthshort]

The Draft Revisited

Mitch, thanks. I needed that!!

 

[joeshmo]

I don't have any question at all about teams being more willing to cut their losses with higher draft picks who just aren't cutting it.

Proof? Would Dennis Green have ever cut his 3rd rounder? Never. No matter how poorly the kid played, with Green the kid would have gotten a free pass, which is one of the many reasons why the game passed Green by.

Coaches are now concerned with their credibility when they elect to keep a higher draft pick who is clearly being out-performed by another player. The players know favortism when they see it, and that doesn't sit too well with today's NFL players, not after they've tolied their asses off under sweltering heat throughout the pre-season, while the coaches preach commitment and performance.

Once again your perception does not coincide with the actual facts that the amount/average amount of cut drafts picks before their first season has not changed/gone up since the 2000 draft. How many 3rd rounders were cut last year, in 2005(not name Clarrett), 2004, and so on. Answer 1 or 2.

The amount of UDFA's making rosters is not any higher then it was 5 years ago. Point blank that is a fact, especially now with the new CBA and teams have more money to keep veterans around longer then ever.

Look you are the ultimate underdog fan and defender. Especially when it comes to UDFA's. You have been since for ever. You want them to succeed and be winners. But what you want for them and what is actually happening(facts) are to different things.

 

[Cheesebeef]

hot diggity! Joeschmoe is just doling out the smackdown. yikes!

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Ah screw it. Someone post the big Koolaid guy picture.

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[Goober Man]

I thought Moses was being coverted to an OLB?
a snip from urbans blog
"And newcomer Quentin Moses did little today in practice as he tries to adjust to a new defense and new position (behind Bertrand Berry for now as a end/linebacker). "

and also in this scouting report they project him as an 3-4 OLB and compare him to John Abraham
http://www.newerascouting.com/index.php?c=31&a=97 also it lists that the Cardinals were interested him to..

another possiblity why the Raiders cut Moses was because he was better suited as a 3-4 OLB

 

[Genus49]

The Cards draft could be impressive down the line. Alan Branch was my favorite defensive player in the draft and I think he'll be a steal for you guys if he stays healthy. I'm not sure if Levi Brown will be a stud right off the back but he can certainly turn into one with some seasoning.

I do think it's a big homer move to not only include Moses in your draft but to say he'll be a big starter on the DL....there's a reason he was on the waivers after being drafted TOP of the 3rd round.

It's like the 49er fans who thought Darnell Bing was going to make the team and start just because some people really liked him the year before in the draft.

If guys get cut 99% of the time is because they couldn't hack it.

 

[jefftheshark]

If guys get cut 99% of the time is because they couldn't hack it.

Great.

One of the most salient points in this whole thread is written by a 49'er fan who can't spell "genius".

JTS

 

[joeshmo]

I thought Moses was being coverted to an OLB?
a snip from urbans blog
"And newcomer Quentin Moses did little today in practice as he tries to adjust to a new defense and new position (behind Bertrand Berry for now as a end/linebacker). "

and also in this scouting report they project him as an 3-4 OLB and compare him to John Abraham
http://www.newerascouting.com/index.php?c=31&a=97 also it lists that the Cardinals were interested him to..

another possiblity why the Raiders cut Moses was because he was better suited as a 3-4 OLB

I think he will play both roles. One play he might have his hand on the ground another he will be standing up. Just like Berry was in the preseason, Berry played both roles about equal amount of time.

The more I think about it I think Moses is going to be starting the game right after the bye week if he has his head on straight after getting taken down a peg after being cut.

 

[joeshmo]

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OH YEAH.

I will be taking a break and drinking Kool aid from now till Monday nights game. But I reserve the right to start drinking something else after the game.

 

[Goober Man]

OH YEAH.

I will be taking a break and drinking Kool aid from now till Monday nights game. But I reserve the right to start drinking something else after the game.

you cannot say no to the kool aid!

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[schutd]

Great.

One of the most salient points in this whole thread is written by a 49'er fan who can't spell "genius".

JTS

Actually Jeff, Genus 49 is where all those of the human species who root for the niners are kept. I believe its somewhere in the NM desert.

 

[ajcardfan]

I hope you are right on Brown being the "answer" Mitch. But, let's see how he does when teams are scheming for him. If he gets Leinart pounded into the turf a handful of times on Monday, that will take some of the bloom off the rose.

 

[seesred]

I am not drinking kool-aid, but after reading this great post I've turned my attention to Vodka! Hey bartender hit me.

GBR
40

 

[Goober Man]

I am not drinking kool-aid, but after reading this great post I've turned my attention to Vodka! Hey bartender hit me.

GBR
40

you asked for it

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[Goober Man]

And get this...anyone still upset over Buster Davis' defection? No need, The Cards picked up a LB in Cameron Vaughn who has a far better chance to make a splash in the NFL than Davis.

I would of responded to this earlier but I just noticed it...I for one am glad the Buster is gone because he was playing without the heart or desire that we've seen when he played in college he simply didn't want it enough..and the fact is we replaced somebody who comes from a big school (LSU) and had a pretty solid career there..sure he went undrafted in 2006 but atleast he showed that he wanted to get better by playing on the Broncos and now our PS..here are some facts about Cameron Vaughn from Somer's Blog

"Vaughn (6-4, 241) comes to the Cardinals after he was released by Denver in the team’s final cut on September 1. He joined the Broncos as an undrafted rookie free agent from Louisiana State University on May 3, 2006 and spent the entire 2006 season on Denver’s practice squad. Vaughn was a three-year starter at LSU where he played in 52 career games (33 starts) and totaled 239 tackles (121 solos) along with seven sacks."

not a bad replacement for Buster IMHO

 

[WildBB]

And get this...anyone still upset over Buster Davis' defection? No need, The Cards picked up a LB in Cameron Vaughn who has a far better chance to make a splash in the NFL than Davis.

I thought that Davis had a future here, being the tackling machine that he was in college. iguess he started off slow in camp and didn't really show enough in the games, on top of being somewhat undersized (but I thought he used that for motivaation).

Anyway getting a good prospect who did play well in the preseason game against us, helps out alot, since we are sort of thin at LB.

Also Monty Biesels' accent during the preseason made Buster expendable IMO.

 

[JeffGollin]

At the time, as I saw it - we entered the draft needing (1) an O-line upgrade, (2) to become stouter against the run, (3) help at CB, (4) an impact OLB, (5) a blocking TE, (6) a burner at WR/KR/PR and (helpful but not crucial) (7) a playmaking safety.

As it turns out -

- We helped our O-line with Levi Brown

(We also added Johnson and Gandy in preseason and added depth at center with Sendlein, but left ourselves thin at OT).

- Branch added to Watson gives us beef at NT we haven't seen in 2 decades.

- Our corner situation remains a bit problematic (Green stepped up, Rolle stepped down, Hood looks like a slight improvement over Robert Tate).

- We didn't add an impact OLB in the draft.

(We also lost Chike for the season, but got lucky when Quentin Moses fell into our laps - but he's only been here for a few days so we won't know for awhile whether we improved ourselves at the position - Okeafor notwithstanding)

- We didn't get our blocking TE

(Patrick represents future potential at least as a receiver. Whether or not he'll ever develop as a good blocker remains to be seen).

- Breaston provides us with a home run threat to some degree.

(Urban also fell into our laps. I guess a 95-yard TD counts as a "home run threat" and - from the way he stuck his head into the kicker on that return, he apparently isn't afraid to mix it up as a downfield blocker either).

- We didn't draft a play-making safety

(So far I haven't seen very much from Holt).

- While it would have been nice to add some toughness behind Hayes and Beisel at MLB, this was not a burning priority. Buster would have added a nice wrinkle. I believe that one thing contributing to his demise was that he really didn't fill a specific need and the coaches felt his lack of production wouldn't be missed.

Conclusion - If you evaluate our draft within the context of which needs we hoped to fill going into the draft and what we ended up with by the end of preseason, we did pretty well but still have a few holes to fill - i.e. depth on the O-line, blocking TE and another cover corner. But let's not forget that quality LT's and dominant NT's don't grow on trees - and we got one of each. I'd grade our draft a B.

 

[Wild Card]

It's amazing how much a crap shoot the draft has become, because now more than ever undrafted college free agents are making rosters and practice squads nearly as much as draft picks.

I say kudos to the Cardinals on this draft. The early returns have been splendid.

Mitch:

I don't know how you give the Cardinals front office credit for more than mixed success with this year's draft. If you assume that upgrading the talent on a 5-11 Cards team is somewhat less challenging than improving the roster of, say, the Patriots, then finding a couple of keepers with your first- and second-rounders shouldn't be too surprising. And other than a pretty good prospect at PR, they got nothing else.

I give the Cards credit for finding FB Tim Castille, C-G Lyle Sendlein and some practice squadders among the UDFAs they brought in, but that's not the draft. That's what's left when the draft is over. Players that the Cards and 31 other teams have thought unworthy of even a seventh-round pick.

And Quentin Moses? Either Oakland overrated Moses as badly as the Cards did Buster Davis, or the Raiders blew it by releasing a talented rookie. Either way, the Cards had another team's error fall into their laps. Good luck, sure, but they didn't draft Moses.

The bottom line for me is that of the players acquired with the Cards' seven original choices in the 2007 draft, only three remain on the active roster with the first game of the 2007 season yet to be played. I'm not sure "splendid" is the word I'd use to describe that result.

WC

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Who wouldn't have taken Moses over Davis? Are you kidding me? Pass rushers of Moses' ilk are few and far between.

Then why was he passed over 64 times,beaten out by a 5th rounder(albeit a guy from Ohio State),and released before the season started?

 

[red desert]

Good question, Jeff. They probably went strictly by their draft board and Davis had a higher grade than any of the remaining DEs. Now we know that Davis didn't deserve it...and that's why the draft is such a crapshoot, especially after the first 50 picks.

It's not that much of a crapshoot. Graves just sucks. J/K

 

[red desert]

Where exactly did I loss you. the fact that you have no idea if the Cards would have selected Moses over Davis.

Or the fact that Moses is an addition to and not a substitution of a 3rd rounder draft pick.

Not that hard to understand.

What cha talking about, Willis?

 

[JC_AZ]

OH YEAH.

I will be taking a break and drinking Kool aid from now till Monday nights game. But I reserve the right to start drinking something else after the game.

I think it's best to reserve the right to start drinking something else after the 1st Quarter, just in case of course!