A Tale of Two Drafts

[Harry]

In fairness to Keim this draft pool was drained before their third round pick. So I should have been nicer about the Cole selection. I’m still right that he’s likely just a backup, but there weren’t many outstanding players left as options. That said I don’t know who’s Scouting for the Cards these days, but they didn’t do Keim any favors. In the past they done better than average in the last 4 rounds. This year did not reflect that. Cole will contribute. I’m not sure the others will.

Days one & two gave the Cards 3 sure roster players. Day 3 may very well not produce a 2018 contributor.

If you want grades,
Rosen = A+
Kirk = B
Cole = C
Edmonds = C-
Campbell = D+
Cunningham = D

The Cards went into this draft needing quite a few spots
QBOTF - got him
2 Starting WRs - got one
TE - missed
Starting CB - missed
Starting RT - missed (I know they have Smith)
Defensive rotation players - missed
Backup RB - maybe but very rough

I’m sorry but that doesn’t look like a successful draft to me. Getting Rosen was great. Kirk is a useful player but not unique and not the most needed position. The rest exhibit more misses than hits. I think history will say a fine day one and a forgettable day two. This was the kind of draft where scouts earn their money by finding useful day 3 players. These guys didn’t get it done.

 

[Cardiac]

From your posts today it sounds you are more of a draft for need than BPA. With the amount of picks Keim had left after trading up for Rosen the needs list simply wasn't going to get fully addressed. I'm not thrilled with this draft either after the Rosen pick. Hopefully Keim did better than you think.

 

[GimmedaBall]

You're in trouble when you go to the grocery store and your shopping list and what you want to toss in the basket is longer than what you can pay for at the checkout.

Cards could have used 10 guys but only had draft picks for 6. We still have opportunity to find a player in the undrafted rooks we sign and SK specials with after draft cuts, camp cuts, final roster cuts.

Would have preferred keeping KWilliams as a RB. Thought he was a gamer when called upon during his time here. Also need to find some OL guys to protect our statuesque QBs.

 

[JerkFace]

The truth is that everything after round 3 is a crap shoot. If one of the last 3 picks contribute at all this season then it will be considered a wild success.

 

[WindCardinal]

I thought it was a good draft and don’t hate any of the picks. Seems we got good grades from draft experts as well

 

[ProdigalSun]

Listening to the press conferences it sounds like the position coaches weighed in heavily on some of these later round choices. Hopefully they are better at developing prospects than the last regime

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Got to give it two years before anything is called a hit or a miss. Draft grades are kind of worthless, no one really revisits their grades in retrospect. The top two guys (Rosen and Kirk) will contribute next year, as we all know Bradford will go down and Glennon is trash. Let's see what the free agent class looks like.

 

[jefftheshark]

I’m probably the least qualified poster here to comment but my take is that after the first round you are looking at what a player can become rather than what they are. It all comes down to the coaches and how they can mold the raw material into something better. As we’ve seen in the past, a new coaching staff can take an underperforming group and turn it around pretty fast (Green could draft like a SOB, but not an X’s & O’s guy like Whiz) and then the opposite (Whiz & Graves = disaster)

My personal feeling is that everything we got after Rosen is playing with the house money.

JTS

 

[Garthshort]

Harry, I think you're wrong. I do agree that we had more needs than picks, so there probably wasn't any way we could come away from the draft with a "full house". If Rosen is the real deal, this has been a good draft. The QBOTF is the most important part of the rebuilding process, but it's not going to happen in one season. And to say, because of our third day picks this draft didn't help. W/o injuries playing a big role, we have a shot of 8-9 wins. If Sam goes down early, we could shrink to 3-4 wins. With one year under his belt SW should have a good feel for our needs, going forward. And with Sam's contract (probably) off the books, and maybe Fitz' as well, we should have a lot of money to spend in the next off season. Bottom line, our future depends on the play of Rosen and the health of Johnson.

 

[pinetopred]

Thanks for all your insight Harry I mean that sometimes I put my Cardinal glasses on and refuse to see the forest because of the trees as a fan I get excited about player X when player Y can have a bigger impact. I really do appreciate your knowledge and expertise on this site when you write something I'm reading it, I don't always agree, but it wouldn't be a good site if all we ever did was agree with each other.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

I am just happy that our athletic projects were in the 4-7 rounds, versus the the first 3 rounds.

 

[BW52]

In fairness to Keim this draft pool was drained before their third round pick. So I should have been nicer about the Cole selection. I’m still right that he’s likely just a backup, but there weren’t many outstanding players left as options. That said I don’t know who’s Scouting for the Cards these days, but they didn’t do Keim any favors. In the past they done better than average in the last 4 rounds. This year did not reflect that. Cole will contribute. I’m not sure the others will.

Days one & two gave the Cards 3 sure roster players. Day 3 may very well not produce a 2018 contributor.

If you want grades,
Rosen = A+
Kirk = B
Cole = C
Edmonds = C-
Campbell = D+
Cunningham = D

The Cards went into this draft needing quite a few spots
QBOTF - got him
2 Starting WRs - got one
TE - missed
Starting CB - missed
Starting RT - missed (I know they have Smith)
Defensive rotation players - missed
Backup RB - maybe but very rough

I’m sorry but that doesn’t look like a successful draft to me. Getting Rosen was great. Kirk is a useful player but not unique and not the most needed position. The rest exhibit more misses than hits. I think history will say a fine day one and a forgettable day two. This was the kind of draft where scouts earn their money by finding useful day 3 players. These guys didn’t get it done.

I have to wonder why the Cards didn`t address the TE spot by getting a Run-blocking TE.Cards have a bunch of pass catching TEs but none are known for being that good in the run game blocking.
I like the Cole pick because he is a Michigamn lineman and they are pretty well coached ( not as Good as the Iowa guys) and he could be a serviceable starter with some increased strength.
RT is still a question mark (Cunningham is more a LT type from all his ratings)I don`t feel all warm and fuzzy about Andre Smith/John Wetzel a RT.
Cards did sign a DE (alec James) and a DT (McKay Murphy) to add to the mix for camp.
CB 2-Maybe Cards feel comfortable with Marcus Williams as CB2 and Benwikere as slot CB

 

[82CardsGrad]

In fairness to Keim this draft pool was drained before their third round pick. So I should have been nicer about the Cole selection. I’m still right that he’s likely just a backup, but there weren’t many outstanding players left as options. That said I don’t know who’s Scouting for the Cards these days, but they didn’t do Keim any favors. In the past they done better than average in the last 4 rounds. This year did not reflect that. Cole will contribute. I’m not sure the others will.

Days one & two gave the Cards 3 sure roster players. Day 3 may very well not produce a 2018 contributor.

If you want grades,
Rosen = A+
Kirk = B
Cole = C
Edmonds = C-
Campbell = D+
Cunningham = D

The Cards went into this draft needing quite a few spots
QBOTF - got him
2 Starting WRs - got one
TE - missed
Starting CB - missed
Starting RT - missed (I know they have Smith)
Defensive rotation players - missed
Backup RB - maybe but very rough

I’m sorry but that doesn’t look like a successful draft to me. Getting Rosen was great. Kirk is a useful player but not unique and not the most needed position. The rest exhibit more misses than hits. I think history will say a fine day one and a forgettable day two. This was the kind of draft where scouts earn their money by finding useful day 3 players. These guys didn’t get it done.

Given the # and positioning of their draft picks coming into the draft, can you describe how the Cards could've done all that you believe they should've done: QBOTF, 2 "Starting" WR's, TE, "Starting" CB, "Starting" RT, etc... I mean, seriously Harry...that's a BIG ask, no??

 

[oaken1]

I was a little confused/bummed on a few of the picks... I thought there were still better center options on the board and I think we could have scored a starting TE in the fourth...

but here is the basic fact of the matter. If Rosen and Kirk are starting for us in 2024 this draft is an amazing success.

I really thought TE was gonna be a target fairly early since we need a TE as well as help for the OT's on the edge...

There's always next year

 

[oaken1]

I have to wonder why the Cards didn`t address the TE spot by getting a Run-blocking TE.Cards have a bunch of pass catching TEs but none are known for being that good in the run game blocking.
I like the Cole pick because he is a Michigamn lineman and they are pretty well coached ( not as Good as the Iowa guys) and he could be a serviceable starter with some increased strength.
RT is still a question mark (Cunningham is more a LT type from all his ratings)I don`t feel all warm and fuzzy about Andre Smith/John Wetzel a RT.
Cards did sign a DE (alec James) and a DT (McKay Murphy) to add to the mix for camp.
CB 2-Maybe Cards feel comfortable with Marcus Williams as CB2 and Benwikere as slot CB

the thing about TE's...you need guys who both block as well as pose a threat in the passing game...otherwise you are broadcasting your intent based on personnel

 

[BW52]

the thing about TE's...you need guys who both block as well as pose a threat in the passing game...otherwise you are broadcasting your intent based on personnel

I agree with you.The Combo TE`s who where good blockers and decent pass catchers ( Durham Smythe,Troy Fumagalli,Ryan Izzo,Dalton Schultz,Ian Thomas all were passed over by Cards.Even the UDFA signing (Andrew Vollert is a pass catcher TE not skilled at blocking).You got me there.I like the thought of a TE who is capable as a Runblocker/Helps in Pass Peotection /and can catch if needed .

 

[oaken1]

I agree with you.The Combo TE`s who where good blockers and decent pass catchers ( Durham Smythe,Troy Fumagalli,Ryan Izzo,Dalton Schultz,Ian Thomas all were passed over by Cards.Even the UDFA signing (Andrew Vollert is a pass catcher TE not skilled at blocking).You got me there.I like the thought of a TE who is capable as a Runblocker/Helps in Pass Peotection /and can catch if needed .

bringing in smith and ditching Veldheer I thought for sure we were either going to draft an OT high or get one of those all around TE's in the third or fourth round... I mean crap we only have two on the roster right?? Achilles Attitude and Seals Jones?? anybody else?

 

[BW52]

Gabe Holmes
Bryce Wiliams
Beau Sandland
Andrew Vollert-known as Pass cacher
unless Wilks feels Bryce Wiliams and Beau Sandland can step up and be the Combo TEs.He has seen both of them when he was in Carolina.So maybe he feels one or both of them can fill the combo role?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I’m probably the least qualified poster here to comment but my take is that after the first round you are looking at what a player can become rather than what they are. It all comes down to the coaches and how they can mold the raw material into something better. As we’ve seen in the past, a new coaching staff can take an underperforming group and turn it around pretty fast (Green could draft like a SOB, but not an X’s & O’s guy like Whiz) and then the opposite (Whiz & Graves = disaster)

My personal feeling is that everything we got after Rosen is playing with the house money.

JTS

I agree with the premise, but I would say that you are typically drafting for immediate impact for the first 2-3 rounds. After that is when you are looking for either potential or special teams guys.

 

[GimmedaBall]

You draft guys with the full expectation that they are all going to become starters at some point----even if the guy is Mr. Irrelevant.

In the meantime, we need to do a rebuild (not a retool) on our special teams. New coach is going to help and some of our picks are going to have to come in and be 'starters' on the special teams. Cards have been horrible in that vital aspect of the game.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

So hard to know how the personnel is going to be used - we are guessing on McCoy's offense at this point...we really are going to be seeing an entirely new offense this year, and probably a bit into next year.

And we still have a few months to bring in some vets, gonna be a noisy summer from us fans that have to clue what is really going on

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

NFL.com gave the Cardinals very good grades across the board for their draft.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...draft-final-quicksnap-grades-for-all-32-teams

Arizona Cardinals
Draft picks: UCLA QB Josh Rosen (No. 10 overall), Texas A&M WR Christian Kirk (No. 47 overall), Michigan C Mason Cole (No. 97 overall), Fordham RB Chase Edmonds (No. 134 overall), Penn State DB Christian Campbell (No. 182 overall), Cincinnati OT Korey Cunningham (No. 254 overall).
Day 1 grade: A
Day 2 grade: A
Day 3 grade: A
Overall grade: A
The skinny: Rosen is the best pure pocket passer in the draft. The Cardinals need to protect him, but if they do, he'll be a Pro Bowler. Giving up third- and fifth-round picks was more than reasonable for a player with his potential. Kirk is an excellent fit, not only because of his skills but the impending retirement of Larry Fitzgerald. Cole brings versatility to the Cardinals, as he started at center and tackle for Michigan. He was picked a little early for my taste, but he'll be a consistent contributor on Sundays. Edmonds was a worthy fourth-round pick, sort of a smaller version of all-around offensive weapon David Johnson. Campbell is a versatile athlete able to play outside corner or free safety, two areas of need for the team.

 

[Harry]

From your posts today it sounds you are more of a draft for need than BPA. With the amount of picks Keim had left after trading up for Rosen the needs list simply wasn't going to get fully addressed. I'm not thrilled with this draft either after the Rosen pick. Hopefully Keim did better than you think.

I think in the salary cap era it’s a mistake to ignore needs. I don’t think you pass on an outstanding BPA, but really are you saying picks 3-7 were BPAs. I don’t think you’d get much support for that. I’m also not even certain that would be true of the Kirk pick. He’s a fine receiver but I think most observers could point to better non-WR players as the BPAs. Also I think you have to consider pool depth & history, as well as probable free agent availability. WRs are often available in trades or as free agents. These days few quality OLs are. I just think the draft is only a portion of a big picture. I think you have to look at the entire landscape to see the best option.

 

[82CardsGrad]

USA giving Cards some love:

NFL draft grades 2018: Which teams had best, worst classes?

https://usat.ly/

 

[football karma]

As some have noted, the draft yielded QBOF without giving up this years 2nd, or next years 1st. its a win right there.

Adding a dynamic playmaker for the return game/ at wideout is a giant bonus. My guess is that McCoy's offense might feature more mid range routes than what we are used to with BA.

As for the rest, i pay attention to Harrys POV. He is the only guy posting here that actually has been paid for his scouting opinions.

It does seem the Cards board does differ from the rest of the league/ consensus pretty wildly. as an example: Chase Edmunds.

The player has some interesting attributes -- but it seems to this amateur that small school + injury history suggests well later than the fourth round.