A treatise on dumb statements about Garnett for Stoudemire.

[Cheesebeef]

The percentages are practically identical, but you have to look beyond the stats. KG can hit you with the face up jumper, he has more range, and he has a great turnaround jumper as well. Plus it's what he uses most of the time and can rely on it unlike Amare.

personally, I'd rather rely on a guy who can punish the lane, going unstopped into the paint until he powers up for and 1s, rather then rely on a turnaround JUMPER. but that's just me.

 

[SunsTzu]

The percentages are practically identical, but you have to look beyond the stats. KG can hit you with the face up jumper, he has more range, and he has a great turnaround jumper as well. Plus it's what he uses most of the time and can rely on it unlike Amare.

I fail to see how having a big man(especially if he is your only big man like KG would be) rely on his jumper is a good thing. The fact Amare doesn't need to rely on his jumper is why I keep him over KG.

 

[SunsTzu]

rather then rely on a turnaround JUMPER. but that's just me.

Are you Avery Johnson?

 

[cly2tw]

Do you just pull these out of a hat? Hmmm, let's trade Marcus Banks for... um, James Posey.

Why would Detroit trade for Shawn Marion when they already have Tayshaun Prince??

The proposal was 3-way with Blazers for Randolph.

 

[SunsTzu]

I think the prospect of getting KG have led some Suns fans to perhaps under-value STAT's contribution to this team.

This is nothing, you should have been here last year for the Italian training camp roller coaster. There is a lot of underlying resentment for Amare amongst some Suns fans and I have no idea why(maybe because he is cocky?).

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I fail to see how having a big man(especially if he is your only big man like KG would be) rely on his jumper is a good thing. The fact Amare doesn't need to rely on his jumper is why I keep him over KG.

Garnett doesn't need to rely on his jumper. That's just his go to move. As I said before, his post game is much more developed than Amare and he can play both inside and outside.

Plus, people have to respect the mid range jumper, which was really an area that we got alot of points at during the playoffs.

Oh, and I'd rather have a big man who can play defense than a guy with serious injury concerns who relies mostly on his athleticism without a good back to the basket game to go along with it.

 

[Greg Popovich]

STAT is a brute--if I had a choice to put either him or KG along with Duncan, Parker and Ginobili--I'd clammer for STAT like crazy.

BTW--all this trade talk must be driving you guys crazy.
Its pretty quiet in SA--no trades (well--we might dump Beno to the Cavs), Finley stated he's coming back; Oberto probably will also.

You guys must be going on an emotional roller coaster like crazy right now.

Rest assured--

No way in hell does Kerr trade Amare.

No chance.

Zero chance that happens.

If he can't bring KG and keep STAT--he won't bring KG.

 

[SunsTzu]

Garnett doesn't need to rely on his jumper. That's just his go to move. As I said before, his post game is much more developed than Amare and he can play both inside and outside.

Plus, people have to respect the mid range jumper, which was really an area that we got alot of points at during the playoffs.

Oh, and I'd rather have a big man who can play defense than a guy with serious injury concerns who relies mostly on his athleticism without a good back to the basket game to go along with it.

Serious injury concerns? How many all NBA 1st teams will Amare have to win before people stop worrying about his knees?

And Amare has developed a nice post game, he doesn't use it much becasue he is so devastating at the elbow off the pick and roll.

 

[Chaplin]

Serious injury concerns? How many all NBA 1st teams will Amare have to win before people stop worrying about his knees?

At least 2. Seriously.

 

[SunsTzu]

No way in hell does Kerr trade Amare.

Unless he is a SA spy!!

 

[Greg Popovich]

Do any of you guys remember that but-for the suspensions, the Suns may be the NBA Champs right now?

I mean--you really want to mess up that team for a risk by ridding yourself of your key scorer by getting KG?

 

[SunsTzu]

At least 2. Seriously.

Yeah I don't think people will ever start doubting. And I'm not saying it's not a concern but I don't view it as a major concern. As far as I'm concerned Amare is way ahead of schedule and I think he'll be even stronger next year.

 

[The_Matrix]

You really don't believe anything Sarver says do you?

His goal is to build a franchise that contend every year, not just a one shot wonder that will regess immediately to mediocrity. Obviously you think Amare + KT for KG this will substantially enhance the Suns chances this year while I think it would make for only a marginal improvement at best. Then, in two years the Suns will become another lottery team.

We're talking Amare for KG, right? As in the Twolves and Hawks came up with the three way deal and the Suns *could* okay it.

Yes we've contended, but so far the Nash Suns have gotten to a Game 5 vs. Spurs, Game 6 vs. Mavs, Game 6 vs. Spurs... (obviously an asterisk this year). So is the Nash/Amare formula ready to go beyond this plateau? The Duncan/Gino/Parker combo is relatively young and the Spurs will fight us for every veteran looking to make a run at a ring. Nash approaches his end, do we spend his last years with young Amare?

Alright, so Sarver wants the Suns to contend for the chip every year. How can we do that without getting the next Nash, Duncan, Kobe? You have to get those guys through a lucky, high draft pick, and to do that you need to blow up the team and rebuild. So 5 years from now do we make the playoffs every year with Amare, Diaw and Barbosa, lose, and continue drafting 24th?

 

[SunsTzu]

Do any of you guys remember that but-for the suspensions, the Suns may be the NBA Champs right now?

I mean--you really want to mess up that team for a risk by ridding yourself of your key scorer by getting KG?

Most would not but for some unfathomable reason there have been fans wanting him out since before last season.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Serious injury concerns? How many all NBA 1st teams will Amare have to win before people stop worrying about his knees?

And Amare has developed a nice post game, he doesn't use it much becasue he is so devastating at the elbow off the pick and roll.

Microfracture surgery is a temporary fix. We'll see how well his knees are doing in four years when he needs the surgery again.

And as for the post game, I really haven't seen it all that much. Alot of times he just tries to do a hook shot or some other move and it rolls in and out of the basket. Amare isn't a really accomplished back to the basket guy, although that's probably because he never really had to because he can just blow past guys.

 

[cly2tw]

And Amare has developed a nice post game, he doesn't use it much becasue he is so devastating at the elbow off the pick and roll.

And because Nash must handle the ball every second he is on the court. That's reason Amare didn't have much chance to work on his back to basket moves in game situations. That's probly one reason he was not happy and we got words about chemistry issues, and why we hear Amare for KG in the first place. Yes, Amare is still an unfished product.

 

[Chaplin]

Most would not but for some unfathomable reason there have been fans wanting him out since before last season.

Which fans are those?

 

[Greg Popovich]

Well Matrix--you're right.

Need to have some good veterans and some good picks.

Heck--look how well Derron Williams did for the Jazz this year.

I don't think you necessarily need to blow up your team--although if you're Minnesota and the Lakers, that is probably the only way to improve.

 

[SunsTzu]

KG/Amare = serious perimeter defensive issues, but I'd agree we'd win the title.

How much worse would the perimeter defense be? We'd still have Bell and it's not like Marion is stoping just like Manu or Parker. As a matter of fact the 2 quality wings I recall Marion having much success with defensively are Jason Richardson and TMac.

 

[SunsTzu]

And because Nash must handle the ball every second he is on the court. That's reason Amare didn't have much chance to work on his back to basket moves in game situations. That's probly one reason he was not happy and we got words about chemistry issues, and why we hear Amare for KG in the first place. Yes, Amare is still an unfished product.

Yeah, the Suns offense relied heavily on Amare on the block for the games Nash missed last year(and I believe Amare averaged 28ppg in those games).

 

[slinslin]

Dumb Statement #1: KG doesn't get to the line! Amare shoots lots of free throws!
2006-2007 KG made 416 free throws. Amare made 457.

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Dumb Statement #2: Amare is great offense vs. Spurs!
No. Amare is merely adequate offense vs. Spurs. He is totally reliant on Nash for his points. Amare can't score consistenly against Duncan 1v1. If we dump the ball to Amare in the low post, Duncan will force him into a fadeway or block/challenge his off-balance lay-in attempt. Or, the Spurs can double team him, so Amare can pass to a cutter or open three point shooter right? Amare total assists in Spurs playoff series: 1.

Now, if we give the ball to Amare in the high post, he can take his inconsistent 15 foot jump shot, or he can attempt to face up and blow by Duncan for the layup/dunk. Post-foot-problems Duncan blocked Amare's drive attempts again and again.

So let's look at the pick n' roll. Bowen and Duncan managed to disrupt our offense well. Amare shot exactly 50 percent in the series, well below his 57.5 percent regular season. Nash had 27 turnovers. There was an ENOURMOUS amount of pressure on Nash to weave through the defense and make a pinpoint pass to Amare. If he passes to Amare or to a perimeter shooter and the Spurs rotate, the ball comes back to Nash with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock. Now Nash attempts to drive in for a layup, but Bowen strips the ball or Duncan swats the shot.

Despite all these problems, Amare still scored plenty of points for one reason: STEVE NASH. How did we win Game 4? Nash made consecutive awesome behind the back passes to Amare off the pick n' roll.

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Dumb Statement #3: KG offensively ain't much better than Amare!
OMG Amare scored 20 ppg and KG 22 ppg!!! We can't give up Amare for an extra two points!!!!

Last time I checked, Amare played with Steve Nash last year and KG played with Mike James and Randy Foye. Can you imagine what KG would do offensively on the Suns? When the Suns went from Starbury to Canadian, Amare went from 20ppg, 47.5% to 26ppg, 56%. KG could go from his typical 22ppg 50% to 28 ppg 55%.

Now let's analyze what really matters, Suns vs. Spurs. First of all KG can post up Duncan. KG's got the hook shots, post moves, left hand, etc. to score on Duncan in the post. What happens if the Spurs double team KG in the low post? WOW, he can do exactly what Duncan does! Pass to the open shooter! 4 apg on the Timberwolves, a 35% 3pt shooting team. Now he's kicking it out to Nash, Bell, Barbs and company. Maybe our regular-season dominant three-point shooting can extend to a playoff series vs. the Spurs.

How about KG's pick n' roll scoring? There's no doubt he can finish in the lane, with less power and more finesse than Amare. He probably won't be posterizing Josh Smith in February, but he'll finish those finger rolls over Duncan in June.

And finally, how about solving the Spurs D vs. the pick? Mix in the pick n' pop with Garnett. Instead of constantly rolling to the hoop off the pick, Garnett can pop for a mid-range shot, like Kurt Thomas does. Fortunately KG's jump shot is way more consistent than Amare's. This guy is accustomed to taking high-pressure jump shots in the fourth quarter. The Spurs want Bowen to fight through the pick. When Garnett pops, Duncan has to respect his jump shot and stay on the perimeter. Voila! Nash can drive to the hoop for a layup with no Duncan shot blocker.

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Inane Statement #1: Amare is our best post defender and we need his blocks!

********. Great defender? That's why the best move D'Antoni ever made was starting Kurt Thomas in Game 2? That's why Amare was second in the league in personal fouls this year? Why did Amare max out at 37 mpg two yrs ago? Because of CONSISTENT foul trouble. Everyone's watched Amare commit those silly ticky-tack fouls. It's not going to change. His yearly foul averages: 3.3 to 3.4 to 3.5 to 3.6. Compare this to Garnett who always goes 40mpg and 2.6 fouls.

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Final Dumb Statement: What stupid team trades a 1st team All-NBA 24 yr-old for a 31 yr-old?!?!

A team whose success is currently solely based on a 33 year old point guard. A team whose 1st team All-NBA center's sucess and statistics are completely in the hands of the point guard. How valuble is Amare, really?

All-NBA first team is Duncan, Dirk, Kobe, Nash, Amare. How far do Spurs, Mavs, Lakers go if their First-Teamer has a season-ending microfracture surgery? How far did we go without Amare last year, with Tim Thomas and Boris Diaw at the starting "power" forward and center? Gee, maybe Steve Nash wears the pants on this team, not Amare Stoudemire. Maybe we *can't* build for the future around our "1st team all nba franchise center". Maybe we should pick up a veteran who single-handedly IS a franchise to get past the Spurs and win a chip while our 1st team all nba franchise point guard is still around.

Your statements are really dumb..

Besides the general fact that in the meaningless regular season Amare played just 32mpg while KG played 39mpg.

#1 are you kidding? Amare makes MORE freethows, in much less playing time and not only that he is taking almost 5 shot attempts LESS per game.

#2 Wow, Amare scored most of his points against the Spurs when Steve Nash couldn't get anything going against Bowen. Amare scored on midrange Js or driving to the basket.. Nash had maybe 1 great pass per game that series.
Not to mention making great passes to someone requires 2 players. One who makes the pass and one who gets into positions where he can receive such a pass and catch it.

Even funnier how come that Kevin Garnetts basket are assisted on just 10% less clip than Amare? Despite Kevin Garnett handling the ball himself so much more than Amare in the regular season he was set up by teammates almost as much. Give Amare the same touches he usually gets and its about the same, despite Nash and all that, an assist is an assist no matter who you are playing with.

KGs typical line against the Spurs was 38%FG this season. Amare averaged exactly the same numbers in his first season with Nash that he did in the 2nd half of the season after Marbury was traded. His shooting % went up but a lot of that was his own improvement, like his jumpshot improving by miles.

KG can post up and all that against the Spurs? How come he is shooting under 40% against them? How come 80% of his FG% in the regular season are jumpshots?

Kevin Garnett is accustomed to taking high pressure jumpshots in the 4th quarter?
How come he is shooting 36%FG in crunch time of close games? Compared to Amare 54%?
How come he is getting less rebounds in crunch time than Amare? How come he isn't drawing even half as many fouls in crunch time? If you want to tell anyone that Kevin Garnett is a better option in crunch time you are truly insane.

#3 LOL. How are Kevin Garnetts numbers going to improve that much. He simply isn't as efficicent and doesn't get to the line like Amare. He is taking 5 shot attempts more per game in Minnesota. In Phoenix there aren't as many shots for him, how is his scoring going up? He isn't suddenly going to become a dominant offensive player, 80% of his offensive is taking jumpshots. And playing with Steve Nash isn't dramatically going to change things, he is already being assisted on 50% of his baskets anyway.

Amare's midrange shots is inconsistent? I can't believe you... He is absolutely money from 15-18ft. Kevin Garnett isn't better than him, he is shooting less FG% on jumpshots.

And again the only reason your statistics are somewhat close is because Amare played just 32mpg in the regular season obviously to not burn him out this season in a meaningless regular season and he didn't nearly get the touches he usually gets.

Your final statement is ridiculous. Without Amare we were extremely lucky not to lose to a terrible Lakers team and a fluke Clippers team.

If someone made a list like that for Shawn Marion it would be 3 times as long.

And if you want to go that way, Steve Nash played a worse series against the Spurs. His inability to guard anyone, consitently make stupid turnovers and disappearing for long stretches offensively killed the Suns.

 

[wsupkid]

I will lie if anyone said I said this but I like Greg Popovich?

 

[The_Matrix]

Well Matrix--you're right.

Need to have some good veterans and some good picks.

Heck--look how well Derron Williams did for the Jazz this year.

I don't think you necessarily need to blow up your team--although if you're Minnesota and the Lakers, that is probably the only way to improve.

I hear you. I just worry a bit about what the Suns will do when Nash retires. Basically Amare will need to become Tim Duncan if he wants to lead a championship team without Nash.

 

[slinslin]

Exactly, Garnett is a superior rebounder. Amare was 10.6 rpg vs. Spurs while Duncan was 13.6. Yes, statistically KG's rebs would go down a bit with Marion. Forget the stats though. If it's the fourth quarter, game tied 20 seconds left and Ginobili bricks a three, I want KG flying for the long reb.

No you wouldn't. In crunch time Amare is a SUPERIOR rebounder than Garnett. He gets more rebounds per minute than Garnett in crunch time and also in the playoffs.

 

[slinslin]

In fact, if you toss out the first two years of Duncan's career (because it would be unfair to measure what was then a relative new comer to Kevin Garnett who had more experience), Garnett clearly outperforms Duncan when they play against one another:

Garnett: 22 PPG, 13 RPG, 5 APG

Duncan: 21 PPG, 12 RPG, 4 APG

If you want to look at just the past two years to see how they've done against one another recently:

Garnett: 23 PPG, 16 RPG, 5 APG, 47% FG

Duncan: 18 PPG, 11 RPG, 3 APG, 50% FG

And they actually play against one another, unlike Amare who has to guard Oberto/Elson/Random SA Scrub.

Please...

Duncan guards Garnett because with Garnett there is no danger of Garnett putting Duncan in foul trouble while when he guards Amare he has to foul him.

Your stats are ridiculous and false!

You took their stats from this season and put a wrong FG% next to it , plus you didn't put their mpg down because it hurts you argument.

Garnett 23ppg 15rpg 6apg 39%FG 44mpg
Duncan 19ppg 9rpg 3apg 63%FG 34mpg

Duncan KILLED Garnett. If the Minnesota Timberwolves were any decent and Duncan forced to play some more minutes his total stats would have been ridiculous against the Wolves at way over 60%FG.

Plus the Wolves like 90% of NBA team double team Tim Duncan. The Suns basically never did that.