About Lampe's Debut

[George O'Brien]

Maciej Lampe finally got to play against the Pacers and he made two baskets in 5 tries and grabbed 2 rebounds. The TV guys keep saying they should give him the ball, but he seemed a bit nervious and maybe he just needed to play.

On defense, he seemed to move his feet pretty well and cut off the baseline as well as anyone. On his fast break basket he showed both good hands and a lot of hustle.

The situation was a bit strange. It was not clear what position he was supposed to be playing and it was a kind of throw together collection of players, so it was not clear how well he has learned the offense.

One thing the TV guys mentioned was that IS 275 pounds - but doesn't look it. If that means he is 275 of mussle and bone, he might be able to step in and contribute more quickly than otherwise expected.

 

[Chaplin]

I just hope he doesn't continue to only play in garbage time. It's nice if you stay aggressive and everything, but you still know in the back of your mind that you're going to lose the game. Everyone is making a big deal about putting him out there against Duncan, and while I probably don't agree with doing that, I certainly support putting him in at garbage time at the most two more times, and then throwing him into some situations where he plays with Shawn Marion or Amare Stoudemire. See how he responds.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I just hope he doesn't continue to only play in garbage time. It's nice if you stay aggressive and everything, but you still know in the back of your mind that you're going to lose the game. Everyone is making a big deal about putting him out there against Duncan, and while I probably don't agree with doing that, I certainly support putting him in at garbage time at the most two more times, and then throwing him into some situations where he plays with Shawn Marion or Amare Stoudemire. See how he responds.

I agree. Even more important, I want to see him at the high post and not on the wing.

 

[Errntknght]

I just came back on to start this thread... I can't believe how little excitement Lampe is generating among the posters here. Heck, I think I'm going to go to the next Suns' home game just to watch him warm up - go very early, too. Of course, I started salivating when I read D'Antoni comments about him in practice. A Sun who is 7' or thereabouts, weighs 270 and can do something, anything on the basketball floor is big news after the misfits this team has had at center the last 35 years.

What I want to see most is him guarding a center - he was mainly defending Harrington and Croshere against the Pacers - Harrington beat him once but other than that he made them shoot over him well away from the hoop. I wouldn't want him to go up against Shaq and take a beating so early in his career but I can't think of another center that I would be too concerned about ahead of time. He sure looks like he'll stand up to the bumping and shoving pretty well. His hands looked quite good - the bball sure didn't look like a foreign object in them but I want to see him rebounding in a crowd.

As I said in the Pacer game thread his footwork looked good - very good for an 18yo center. He has a smooth shot and seems to have confidence in it. A decent sense for the game and definitely he's enthused about playing the game.

I'll tell you how hyped I am about this guy... I keep trying to think of a center beyond Shaq, Yao, O'Neill and Brad Miller I'd take in a trade for him right now and I can't. Heck, I'd have to think about Shaq since he may well not play much more. I suppose it would be prudent to take Magliore but I wouldn't really want to. I'm sure there are a couple of others that just don't come to mind. Part of it is that he's almost certainly a high post center if he does pan out and that would be a great fit with Amare's low post game.

 

[sly fly]

I'm pretty excited, too. You could tell this guy is a basketball junkie, just by the few minutes he was on the court.

I couldn't believe his teammates weren't looking fo him. Barosa seemed content to just dribble right past him. And, Casey ran that one fast break with blinders on.

18 years old? What the heck are they feeding these kids?

I barely had hair under my arms, and this man child is collecting an NBA paycheck!

 

[Joe Mama]

I was surprised that how quickly he moved around the floor. I had seen a few videos of him before the draft, and I remember being convinced that he wasn't much faster than Jake Tsakalidis. I think the play that excited me the most was when he caught that pass from Cabarkapa on the fast break and laid it up. There aren't a lot of centers in the NBA that could make that play.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I was surprised that how quickly he moved around the floor. I had seen a few videos of him before the draft, and I remember being convinced that he wasn't much faster than Jake Tsakalidis. I think the play that excited me the most was when he caught that pass from Cabarkapa on the fast break and laid it up. There aren't a lot of centers in the NBA that could make that play.

Joe Mama

He admitted he was out of shape this summer. If he is at 275 and has lost 30 pound, then he must have been very big.

I'm not surprised he can move. His scounting reports had him as an outside guy like Dirk, Gasol, and Zarko. Some people forecast that he might have gone as high as fifth if there had not been the issues about his contract.

For me the question has always been, can he defend the post? If he can, than the Suns will be a contender for the championship in a few years.

 

[Chaz]

I was pleasently suprised with Lampe's foot speed. He gets down the floor and is able to move his feet on defense.

I also loved the Lampe, Voskuhl, Carbarkarpa front line.

Looking forward to seeing Lampe play a little more.

 

[elindholm]

I keep trying to think of a center beyond Shaq, Yao, O'Neill and Brad Miller I'd take in a trade for him right now and I can't.

I did catch his garbage-time layup in the last game and was impressed with his movement and ability to receive the ball. But come on. The Knicks gave this guy a look in the exhibition season. As I recall -- unfortunately I no longer am able to find exhibition stats on line -- he started off very hot, with some games scoring in the high teens or even low 20s. I do at least remember that he logged major minutes. But as the exhibition season evolved, his minutes and production tapered off quickly. By the time the regular season was upon us, the Knicks no longer had any use for him at all, even while they were struggling and Mutombo and/or McDyess weren't playing.

The Suns themselves passed over Lampe when they used San Antonio's pick to take Barbosa instead. If they had thought he was so hot, they would have gambled that they could solve the contract problems, as they did with Tsakalidis. And now Lampe has been with the team for a month or so, showing the coaching staff everything he can do, and he still can't get more than token playing time in meaningless situations.

Right now Lampe is a Rorshach ink blot. The information is so vague and incomplete, you can see whatever you want. Does the Suns' center of the future lie within? It's possible, but no more likely than with any other seven-foot unknown currently wandering on the fringes of professional basketball.

As Suns fans, we're all too familiar with the pattern of a big guy with "potential," on the basis of almost no information, being anointed as the franchise savior -- only to turn out to be, well, just another stiff. Haven't we learned yet?

 

[elindholm]

Some people forecast that he might have gone as high as fifth if there had not been the issues about his contract.

This was also true for Tsakalidis.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
Some people forecast that he might have gone as high as fifth if there had not been the issues about his contract.

This was also true for Tsakalidis.

True, but I don't remember Big Jake every making a layup on a fast break.

 

[elindholm]

True, but I don't remember Big Jake every making a layup on a fast break.

No, but surely you do remember him playing very effective one-on-one post defense, particularly against O'Neal and Yao. There were some things he could do and a lot of things he couldn't.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
True, but I don't remember Big Jake every making a layup on a fast break.

No, but surely you do remember him playing very effective one-on-one post defense, particularly against O'Neal and Yao. There were some things he could do and a lot of things he couldn't.

I never felt Big Jake ever really recovered from his back injury, so about all he could do was wrestle with Shaq and Yao.

Lampe begins with much greater skills as a shooter, passer, and ball handler. Even in the short period he was in against the Pacers, he showed quickness and some skills at cutting off the baseline. Unfortunately, he has minimal experience at the center position, so he may actually be further behind than Big Jake at defending the paint.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by elindholm
True, but I don't remember Big Jake every making a layup on a fast break.

No, but surely you do remember him playing very effective one-on-one post defense, particularly against O'Neal and Yao. There were some things he could do and a lot of things he couldn't.

I'm having trouble with your comparisons of Lampe to the Big Tsak.

For one, never in my three years of watching Jake did I see him drain a 20 footer (other than a prayer).

Never did I see him get out in front on the fast break.

Of course he could play one-on-one D. He was built like a brick, went 7'3", and had long arms. How hard is it to lean on someone when you're that size?

Just remember one thing, Eric. Lampe is 18 years old. Barely old enough to be a freshman in college. We're going to be seeing this kid develop for many years.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sly fly
I'm having trouble with your comparisons of Lampe to the Big Tsak.

...Of course he could play one-on-one D. He was built like a brick,

And about the same mobility.

The decision to trade Jake came last summer at the Rocky Mountain Review. In spite of claims that he was in the best shape of his career, he still couldn't move. He was a veteran and should have dominated, but he didn't.

White is a lot shorter and I think he's too slow, but he moves much better than Big Jake.

 

[SunsTzu]

Originally posted by sly fly
Lampe is 18 years old. Barely old enough to be a freshman in college. We're going to be seeing this kid develop for many years.

He can also develop physically. There were reports that since he and Darko Milicic are so young they could grow another inch or 2. JJ put on an inch from his rookie year to sophmore year.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by SunsTzu
He can also develop physically. There were reports that since he and Darko Milicic are so young they could grow another inch or 2. JJ put on an inch from his rookie year to sophmore year.

That's what the doctors claim at least. As it is, he's tall enough to be effective now - but he needs a lot of work at learning the job.

 

[elindholm]

I'm having trouble with your comparisons of Lampe to the Big Tsak.

I don't mean that they were similar players, only that their situations are similar.

For one, never in my three years of watching Jake did I see him drain a 20 footer (other than a prayer).

I've never seen Shaquille O'Neal make one either. A center doesn't have to be a shooter to be effective.

Lampe is 18 years old. Barely old enough to be a freshman in college. We're going to be seeing this kid develop for many years.

Like the Nuggets are watching Tskitishvili?

The point is that becoming an NBA-level basketball player (at any position) requires enormous talent and skill development. A seven-footer who can run and shoot is nice, but he's only a tiny fraction of the way toward becoming an NBA regular. I hear some people talk about "developing" like it's reading a couple of text books for a history midterm. Good NBA players, with very few exceptions, have been working on their skills for years upon years.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm

Like the Nuggets are watching Tskitishvili?

The point is that becoming an NBA-level basketball player (at any position) requires enormous talent and skill development. A seven-footer who can run and shoot is nice, but he's only a tiny fraction of the way toward becoming an NBA regular. I hear some people talk about "developing" like it's reading a couple of text books for a history midterm. Good NBA players, with very few exceptions, have been working on their skills for years upon years.

That is certainly a more reasonable comparison. Skeets looked pretty clueless against the Suns, which is surprising for someone with more than a year of NBA experience. I think he will eventually become productive, but it is pretty hard on a team that passed on Amare to take Skeets.

I do not expect Lampe to be a factor until at least 2005-06. That is why I am so concerned that the Suns have at least one more veteran center in addition to Voskuhl.

At the same time, I'm not impressed with the centers in this year's NBA draft. Why take another player who will need three years to be productive when there is already a better prospect already on the team?

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by elindholm
As Suns fans, we're all too familiar with the pattern of a big guy with "potential," on the basis of almost no information, being anointed as the franchise savior -- only to turn out to be, well, just another stiff. Haven't we learned yet?

Learned what, elindholm? To pin our hopes on 220 lb. Forwards like Bo Outlaw playing Center rather than a big man alongside Amare?

Nope, haven't learned yet.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Of course Stoudemire only needed two years of highschool ball to be ready

 

[elindholm]

Learned what, elindholm? To pin our hopes on 220 lb. Forwards like Bo Outlaw playing Center rather than a big man alongside Amare?

Um, no. Learned that franchise centers aren't found in other people's garbage.

In recent history, I think the only successful big man whose original team gave up on him was Jermaine O'Neal. Am I overlooking another example? If a "big" has real NBA ability, the team that first gets him almost never lets him go.

 

[SunsTzu]

Originally posted by elindholm
[B

Um, no. Learned that franchise centers aren't found in other people's garbage.

In recent history, I think the only successful big man whose original team gave up on him was Jermaine O'Neal. Am I overlooking another example? If a "big" has real NBA ability, the team that first gets him almost never lets him go. [/B]

Brad Miller was traded twice. Brand was traded after proving to be 20 10 guy. Was Zo traded to the Heat or did he sign as a FA? The fact that it has happend and the fact Lampe is so young with talent its only natural to speculate.

Edit- Oh yeah Chris webber was traded a couple times. Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace too.

 

[F-Dog]

Um, no. Learned that franchise centers aren't found in other people's garbage.

Not every NBA team is run by Isiah Thomas, though.


Seriously, I have to agree with Eric. Lampe is going to have to learn to rebound, to guard players in the post, and also to guard the basket if he's going to be an effective center. That's a lot to learn, especially for a player who (right now) looks like his natural position is PF.

On the other hand, even if he can't cut it at center, Lampe might be worth playing at forward, which is a significant difference from Tsakalidis.


Even if Lampe is successful, it's going to be two or three years before we see the results.

When the Suns got Lampe, they were talking about 'redshirting' him for the rest of the year anyway, so any time he gets PT, it's going to be worth noting, I think.

 

[elindholm]

Brad Miller was traded twice....

Trading a player is not the same as "giving up" on him. Even Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, and O'Neal changed teams. I meant cases where the first team "didn't know what they had," so to speak.