About Larry...

[MadCardDisease]

Fitz will be 37 years old. I'm not sure he would be worth more than $9M next year. As much as I love Larry, Father Time is on Larry like glue but struggling to bring him down.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Larry is currently 56th in DVOA and DYAR. At this point, he's a low-end #3 WR. Everyone characteriizes him as a "quiet leader", and it's extremely unclear what, exactly, he brings to the locker room. Did he do much for Michael Floyd, whom he was allegedly tight with? Who knows? There's a real question what a guy pushing 40 can really do with a bunch of 21- and 22-year old guys in the meeting room.

That said, I'm not going to sweat that $11 million cap number right now. While I'm against leveraging Terrell Suggs for PR purposes, I'm for dedicating 30% of Fitz's cap hold for PR purposes. He's probably world that.

Fitz has the second-highest cap hit on the team this year, which is a tough pill to swallow. But as long as he's not looking for raises, that cap number becomes more of a bargain every year.

In addition to metrics, I also like consider how a player performs according to the (dreaded!) eye test.

For example, I'm still seeing Fitz make tough catches over the middle. Taking hard hits, and holding on to the ball. Sometimes he's making catches with guys draped all over him.

Also, it's weird how he's able to (many times) get through traffic for additional yardage after the catch, where at first glance it appears there's really no room to run.

I'm not saying that you aren't what your metrics say you are, but just that there should be a slight adjustment to someone's performance evaluation based on game tape. For Fitz, his game tape points to, in my humble opinion, a slightly better performance evaluation than 56th in DVOA.

As far as leadership? We know Fitz will give the company line, and that he won't make trouble, which counts for something. That's a good thing to have for a rookie coach. He's still a fiery competitor. Still gives it 125% on the field.

I wish he would take a little pay cut, but whatevs. It's not enough dollars to get worked up about. I don't think an extra available three our four million will get us to the superbowl in 2020.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I think it's a worthwhile topic. Just thinking out loud - wouldn't Fitz want to take a pay cut if it meant improving the team he's playing on? The better the team, the better chance he has of returning to the playoffs, etc. As they say - "He's made his money." Not knocking him for his age or level of production, but it just makes sense to take a little less to help the team improve some (unless he doesn't have any faith in Keim's ability to use a portion of his salary in a beneficial way or he simply doesn't want to leave any money on the table).

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think it's a worthwhile topic. Just thinking out loud - wouldn't Fitz want to take a pay cut if it meant improving the team he's playing on? The better the team, the better chance he has of returning to the playoffs, etc. As they say - "He's made his money." Not knocking him for his age or level of production, but it just makes sense to take a little less to help the team improve some (unless he doesn't have any faith in Keim's ability to use a portion of his salary in a beneficial way or he simply doesn't want to leave any money on the table).

He's a free agent. So no need to take a paycut.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think it's a worthwhile topic. Just thinking out loud - wouldn't Fitz want to take a pay cut if it meant improving the team he's playing on? The better the team, the better chance he has of returning to the playoffs, etc. As they say - "He's made his money." Not knocking him for his age or level of production, but it just makes sense to take a little less to help the team improve some (unless he doesn't have any faith in Keim's ability to use a portion of his salary in a beneficial way or he simply doesn't want to leave any money on the table).

He remains on a one year deal... So, IF he chooses to return next year, I would imagine he and Mike B will reach an agreement on an appropriate compensation level. I don't believe Fitz would do anything that would get in the way of the greater good for the team. And I believe he and Mike B have the type of relationship that would produce the best outcome for the team, while providing Fitz with a compensation level he could live with...
I have no doubt that Fitz would love, more than anything else, to win a championship in a Cardinal uniform. If after this season, the team had a chance to secure a key Free Agent or two that could better position the team of a run at the Super Bowl, both he and Mike B would take all of that into consideration and reach the best and most appropriate outcome.
The fact that Fitz is making $11 million this season means squat in terms of what the team would've/could've done if he were making something less.
They will have a much improved cap situation in 2020 and even better in 2021. It'll be interesting to see how much longer Fitz chooses to play. Who knows... he may hang up his cleats after this year. But my gut is that, if this team can demonstrate meaningful improvement over the last half of the season, I think we'll see #11 back in 2020!

 

[Fiasco]

Has Fitz ever gotten "separation"? He's always been a possession receiver and he still does that. His catch % this year is well above his career average (the fourth highest in his career). His yards per target is the highest it's been since 2014. He just is not getting targeted as much.

His stats kind of rise and fall with whatever poo show we've had going on at QB during his career.

Murray does not seem comfortable throwing tight window throws yet. That's had the benefit of Murray not having turnovers but it's also reducing Fitz targets that previous QB's like Warner or Palmer would have not thought twice about putting his way.

Hell, if this is the case with some of you people, why didn't we shitcan larry back after the 2012 season?

I've got an idea! Lets shitcan a ridiculously durable, pretty much always healthy player with several years of production left because he's had rookie QB's throwing to him the last two seasons.

His salary looks pretty commiserate with his production especially considering catching from rookies for is last 25 games.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Julian Edelman signed a two year extension that is worth about $7M a year.

I think the $7M per year price for Fitz would be good at his age and considering the intangibles that he brings to the team.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Has Fitz ever gotten "separation"? He's always been a possession receiver and he still does that. His catch % this year is well above his career average (the fourth highest in his career). His yards per target is the highest it's been since 2014. He just is not getting targeted as much.

His stats kind of rise and fall with whatever **** show we've had going on at QB during his career.

Murray does not seem comfortable throwing tight window throws yet. That's had the benefit of Murray not having turnovers but it's also reducing Fitz targets that previous QB's like Warner or Palmer would have not thought twice about putting his way.

Hell, if this is the case with some of you people, why didn't we shitcan larry back after the 2012 season?

I've got an idea! Lets shitcan a ridiculously durable, pretty much always healthy player with several years of production left because he's had rookie QB's throwing to him the last two seasons.

His salary looks pretty commiserate with his production especially considering catching from rookies for is last 25 games.

Interesting that Larry's yards per target is so high, when Kyler's Yards per Attempt has him sitting 20th in the league...

 

[Fiasco]

Julian Edelman signed a two year extension that is worth about $7M a year.

I think the $7M per year price for Fitz would be good at his age and considering the intangibles that he brings to the team.

Let Edelman catch passes from Anderson, Skelton, Hall, Kolb, Lindley, Hoyer, Stanton, Gabbert, Glennon, Rosen and Bradford and all the different coaches and schemes for a big chunk over the same timespan of their careers and get back to me if you think they are equivalent receivers.

If Edelman had to suffer the same team arc as Fitzgerald you wouldn't even know what his name was.

Larry's < 3 years older then Edelman. Even with the age difference Larry is a superior WR to edelman.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Let Edelman catch passes from Anderson, Skelton, Hall, Kolb, Lindley, Hoyer, Stanton, Gabbert, Glennon, Rosen and Bradford and all the different coaches and schemes for a big chunk over the same timespan of their careers and get back to me if you think they are equivalent receivers. Larry's < 3 years older then Edelman.

If Edelman had to suffer the same team arc as Fitzgerald you wouldn't even know what his name was.

Could you imagine Larry's stats had he had Brady tossing the rock to him for his entire career???

Again - if Larry remains on this team in 2020, it will be at a salary that works for the team and one that he finds acceptable... period.

 

[Fiasco]

it will be at a salary that works for the team and one that he finds acceptable... period.

So, just like every single other player in the NFL?

 

[HoodieBets]

Could you imagine Larry's stats had he had Brady tossing the rock to him for his entire career???

Again - if Larry remains on this team in 2020, it will be at a salary that works for the team and one that he finds acceptable... period.

He would be holding all the records.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MadCardDisease]

Let Edelman catch passes from Anderson, Skelton, Hall, Kolb, Lindley, Hoyer, Stanton, Gabbert, Glennon, Rosen and Bradford and all the different coaches and schemes for a big chunk over the same timespan of their careers and get back to me if you think they are equivalent receivers.

If Edelman had to suffer the same team arc as Fitzgerald you wouldn't even know what his name was.

Larry's < 3 years older then Edelman. Even with the age difference Larry is a superior WR to edelman.

I don't care who threw passes to Fitz in the past. This is about Larry in the future.

Based off of Edelman's current production and contract I think $7M is a fair price for Larry next year.

 

[Fiasco]

Could you imagine Larry's stats had he had Brady tossing the rock to him for his entire career???

Jerry Rice's records would have fallen a very long time ago.

 

[Fiasco]

I don't care who threw passes to Fitz in the past. This is about Larry in the future.

Based off of Edelman's current production and contract I think $7M is a fair price for Larry next year.

Well who's throwing passes to them NOW?

Edelman's production is predicated upon being in the exact same scheme under the exact same (most successful in the history of the NFL) coach with pretty much the best QB to ever play pro football throwing to him his entire career.

Larry Fitzgeralds production is predicated upon having a rookie QB last year and a rookie HC with a brand new scheme and then another rookie QB and another rookie HC with a brand new scheme.

Despite the glaring differences in the talent on the field and on the sideline, the wicked lack of continuity, the production between Edelman and Fitzgeralds isn't disparate.

Would you trade Fitz and his contract for Edelman and his contract to save cap space? I sure as F wouldn't.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well who's throwing passes to them NOW?

Edelman's production is predicated upon being in the exact same scheme under the exact same (most successful in the history of the NFL) coach with pretty much the best QB to ever play pro football throwing to him his entire career.

Larry Fitzgeralds production is predicated upon having a rookie QB last year and a rookie HC with a brand new scheme and then another rookie QB and another rookie HC with a brand new scheme.

Despite the glaring differences in the talent on the field and on the sideline, the wicked lack of continuity, the production between Edelman and Fitzgeralds isn't disparate.

Would you trade Fitz and his contract for Edelman and his contract to save cap space? I sure as F wouldn't.

Great post!

 

[MadCardDisease]

Here is an update.

Larry currently is:

sitting at #40 overall in yards with 669 total yards

sitting at #63 overall in receiving TDs with 3 TDs

Getting older by the day

​

For people complaining about who was throwing passes to Fitz and who was calling plays in 2018 and 2019:

Spoiler

There is a 99% chance Murray is going to be the starting QB and KK is going to be calling plays again in 2020!

I still stand by my $7M for one year to keep Fitz a Cardinal. No way I would pay more.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Normally I'm with you MCD. I just can't ever get on board with lowering Larry's pay. As long as he wants to..... I'm paying 11mm

 

[Southpaw]

Normally I'm with you MCD. I just can't ever get on board with lowering Larry's pay. As long as he wants to..... I'm paying 11mm

Why? If he wants to hang around for "records" it should come with a price discount. Close out sale.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Why? If he wants to hang around for "records" it should come with a price discount. Close out sale.

And, if he's interested in winning you'd think he'd want to free up some money to add new talent to the roster...

 

[MadCardDisease]

Normally I'm with you MCD. I just can't ever get on board with lowering Larry's pay. As long as he wants to..... I'm paying 11mm

But they are not lowering his pay.

Larry is a Free Agent after the season so they should pay him market value for a 37 year old WR.

 

[cardpa]

No sorry you are wrong.larry Wilson is the greatest Cardinal.Toughest player to wear the uniform.A badass back in the day.Since you likely aren`t old enough to have seen Larry Wilson play I disagree with your view.

If I had to rank the greatest Cardinals ever Larry Wilson would be my #1. He was a guy who actually changed the way safety is played. Old #8 is my GOAT in a Cardinal Uniform.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Why? If he wants to hang around for "records" it should come with a price discount. Close out sale.

I don't think that is Larry's ultimate goal anymore. I don't see any way he gets to rice unless he sticks around for 2 to 3 more seasons.

And, if he's interested in winning you'd think he'd want to free up some money to add new talent to the roster...

Agreed. Staying at 11mm every year while the cap continues to rise makes his % of the cap go down little by little each year without the loss of actualy pay. It's a trade off IMO.

But they are not lowering his pay.

Larry is a Free Agent after the season so they should pay him market value for a 37 year old WR.

In my opinion, I think this may be Larry's final season. With that being said, if he sticks around at 11mm and the cap rises by 5 to 10mm, we will have more money to spend and hit overall cap hit will go down.

If he does stay..... it will be because he senses a Niners-like turnaround.

 

[ajcardfan]

But they are not lowering his pay.

I don't think that is Larry's ultimate goal anymore. I don't see any way he gets to rice unless he sticks around for 2 to 3 more seasons.


Agreed. Staying at 11mm every year while the cap continues to rise makes his % of the cap go down little by little each year without the loss of actualy pay. It's a trade off IMO.


In my opinion, I think this may be Larry's final season. With that being said, if he sticks around at 11mm and the cap rises by 5 to 10mm, we will have more money to spend and hit overall cap hit will go down.

If he does stay..... it will be because he senses a Niners-like turnaround.

Larry is a Free Agent after the season so they should pay him market value for a 37 year old WR.

We would all love him even more if he takes the hometown discount.

But the Cards forcing the pay cut? That will get out to the public. And Larry retires or, god forbid, plays for another team? Like.... Seattle?

It would be PR nightmare for the franchise. PR has value, corporations pay a lot of money for good PR. I dont think Bidwill would that stupid.

 

[82CardsGrad]

As I stated in another thread, until someone can definitively pinpoint precisely how paying Larry $11 million is keeping the team from being better, I'm totally down with paying Fitz for as long as he chooses to lace 'em up each Sunday!