Advice for Kurt Warner

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese, the only ones that are scared by Warner are the Leinart fans and the ones that wanted him under center from the get go.

i'm not a Leinart fan. I used to be, especially when he was drafted but holy cow man has he fallen from grace. I had no problem with his ass being benched, but if you're telling me the only ones that are scared are Matt fans, then the fact that Kurt pretty much played like this last year and STILL had to fight for the job this year tells me it's not as cut and dry and you'd like it to be. Good coaches know the value of ball protection and not making mistakes. I'm a fan of sustained success of the Cards. I honestly don't know which way the team should go at the end of the season and Warner's still got a couple games to prove to me that he can be the go to guy. One great half season doesn't wash away the the majority of the last 7 years.

Warner haters are always going to be there to because of his religous mantra. Not some perceived Turnover problem that every starting QB in the league deals with.

some "perceived" turnover problem? Rats, why do you think Warner was the 2nd stringer going into camp this off-season after the offensive numbers he put up last year? Could it have possibly been the fact that he turned the ball over too much and that gave the coaches pause for thought?

Why aren't we talking about the sacks Kurt has taken. Oh wait...he hasn't taken many. Most Cards fans are celebrating the Division Championship that Kurt Warners MVP type season has brought us. I think it is time to give up the hate and get on the bandwagon.

Warner's MVP first half of the season and an easy division brought us the division title and EVERYONE'S stoked about that. Doesn't mean that bringing up worries that have been reminding us of the mixed bag Warner in the last 4 weeks means it's "hate". it's just not blind devotional love.

there is a middle ground.

I mean, do you think that Whiz HATED Warner when he named Matt the starter despite Warner's numbers last year? Why in your opinion did that happen?

 

[Spielman]

He had 4 fumbles lost the entire year.

No, that column is for the fumbles Moon personally recovered in 1990. There's a difference.

And even if that weren't the case, you'd seriously hang your hat on a year when a guy fumbled 18 times and somehow only lost 4? fumble recoveries are essentially random.

 

[Russ Smith]

The interesting thing in turnovers is how year after year QB's who are up near the top tend to play in outdoor stadiums. Favre for example is going to turn it over a ton anyways because he takes risks, but playing in bad weather also contributes.

that's the one part of Kurt that bothers me, he plays more than half his games indoors and still turns it over, and he tends to bunch them(Philly)
and he tends to have some incredibly weird turnovers, ones you literally can't get who he was throwing to.

Saying he only has x turnovers is somewhat misleading because in the 2 big road losses on the East Coast (the type we'll have to win in the playoffs if we're able to win the first game), he had 6 picks. 3 against the Jets, 3 against the Eagles. Against the Giants he had just the 1 pick, but could have easily had a couple more, and he fumbled twice(lost one). So in the 3 big East Coast games we lost he had 7 INT's and 4 lost fumbles.

That's why his turnovers concern, me against the types of teams and situations we're going to have to win in to advance more in the playoffs, he's been VERY turnover prone.

At home he's been very good, he has only 3 picks and 2 lost fumbles at home, it's on the road 9 picks 4 lost fumbles, where he's been turnover prone.

But he's had a terrific year and we're division champs so I can't complain too much. I just hope if we win the first playoff game, that he protects the ball in the next one.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Manning's had the same issue this year and only has 12 turnovers. Favre had the same issue the entire first half of last year when the Packers had the league's worst rushing attack through 8 games and favre only had 8 turnovers.

I think it's that fact that Warner's got 8 turnovers in just his last 4 games which is what scares people. He had an out of this world first half of the season (with the same running game or lack thereof) and he's come back to earth quite a bit in the second half.

Love the fact that Warner is being compared to two of the best QB's to have ever played the game!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I see... so you simply feel that any other QB (Leinart perhaps?) could be inserted into the circus-like system and put up Warner's numbers?? OK...



Yes, it has been done before...albeit in extreme rare cases... Moon is in the HoF by the way...

I am saying Warner should be praised for doing well and criticized when he does poorly. That's it. I am not worried about WHO the QB is but WHAT the QB does. It's not a Leinart vrs Warner thing. It is a QB position thing.

 

[moklerman]

Do Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers all get this kind of scrutiny? They all had 20+ turnovers in 2007 and I don't ever see their miscues get the kind of attention that "same ol' Warner" gets by his teams fans and the media.

I admit I don't follow those other guys as much but there seems to be a double standard.

 

[Mulli]

So people are scared of playoff games, aren't you supposed to be scared of playoff games?

Every QB not named Eli lost in the playoffs last year, many of them good ones.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Love the fact that Warner is being compared to two of the best QB's to have ever played the game!

you do realize that the comparison made shows that he isn't like those guys, right?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am saying Warner should be praised for doing well and criticized when he does poorly. That's it. I am not worried about WHO the QB is but WHAT the QB does. It's not a Leinart vrs Warner thing. It is a QB position thing.

no extremist will ever believe that you there actually can be a middle ground re: Warner because it's much easier to argue black and white than shades of grey.

 

[RolleRocks]

Are we really giving advice to veteran NFL quarterbacks?
I can't wait until he reads this and uses the vast knowledge to improve his game!

He should read this.

The guy plays at an NFL MVP level.

He is at or near the top of every QB category.

And like many have noted here, he plays with not even a threat of a running game.

But when he makes a mistake, listen to the outrage of the haters on this board.

I stand by my advice.

"Don't be a hero when your coach decides to put you behind the 8 ball with his so-called power running game."

Chuck the ball in the stands.

 

[Russ Smith]

So people are scared of playoff games, aren't you supposed to be scared of playoff games?

Every QB not named Eli lost in the playoffs last year, many of them good ones.

Absolutely what I'm saying is I'm scared when we lose in the playoffs it might be because Kurt has another turnover meltdown game. I can handle a team just going out and beating us, we play well, they play better, I just don't want to see a game like in '98 where any slim chance we had of beating the Vikings ended in the first half due to Jake's turnovers burying us.

If we're going to lose I want to lose to a better team, not because of mistakes, especially preventable ones like hitting defensive players in the numbers which Kurt has been doing too much in recent games.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I am saying Warner should be praised for doing well and criticized when he does poorly. That's it. I am not worried about WHO the QB is but WHAT the QB does. It's not a Leinart vrs Warner thing. It is a QB position thing.

Ok... though your comments tell a different story...

 

[Totally_Red]

The interesting thing in turnovers is how year after year QB's who are up near the top tend to play in outdoor stadiums. Favre for example is going to turn it over a ton anyways because he takes risks, but playing in bad weather also contributes.

that's the one part of Kurt that bothers me, he plays more than half his games indoors and still turns it over, and he tends to bunch them(Philly)
and he tends to have some incredibly weird turnovers, ones you literally can't get who he was throwing to.

Saying he only has x turnovers is somewhat misleading because in the 2 big road losses on the East Coast (the type we'll have to win in the playoffs if we're able to win the first game), he had 6 picks. 3 against the Jets, 3 against the Eagles. Against the Giants he had just the 1 pick, but could have easily had a couple more, and he fumbled twice(lost one). So in the 3 big East Coast games we lost he had 7 INT's and 4 lost fumbles.

That's why his turnovers concern, me against the types of teams and situations we're going to have to win in to advance more in the playoffs, he's been VERY turnover prone.

At home he's been very good, he has only 3 picks and 2 lost fumbles at home, it's on the road 9 picks 4 lost fumbles, where he's been turnover prone.

But he's had a terrific year and we're division champs so I can't complain too much. I just hope if we win the first playoff game, that he protects the ball in the next one.

The interception Sunday was very frustrating because it was unnecessary IMO. Yeah it came on a 3rd and 9 after two futile run attempts, but he threw into triple coverage and telegraphed the throw. The Cardinal defense was playing well at the time, and a punt would have been OK IMO.

Kurt has had an awesome MVP-worthy season, but he's got to clean up the picks. And I loved that late throw to J.J. It was a thing of beauty that J.J. should have hung on to. You can't throw a ball any better than that.

There are understandable interceptions, e.g. the bomb to Steve Breaston in D.C. that bounced off the defender's helmet. I'm OK with that kind, but not the throws into triple coverage that happened in Philly and yesterday.

 

[82CardsGrad]

you do realize that the comparison made shows that he isn't like those guys, right?

Favre had Grant last season, who compared to what we have this year is Walter Payton...

Manning has a better run game this year, yet Warner is blowing him away in virtually all statistical QB categories..

You're right... Warner is not like them at all...

 

[82CardsGrad]

no extremist will ever believe that you there actually can be a middle ground re: Warner because it's much easier to argue black and white than shades of grey.

For the record, I am not even one of the Warner guys who believes he's HoF worthy... In fact, unless he has another season like this year, I don't believe he should be in the HoF...

I am not an extremist - just a realist...

 

[moklerman]

For the record, I am not even one of the Warner guys who believes he's HoF worthy... In fact, unless he has another season like this year, I don't believe he should be in the HoF...

Without debating your decision, I'm always curious what each person considers HOF qualifiers. Namath and Sayers throw monkey wrenches into the longevity argument.

 

[RolleRocks]

Absolutely what I'm saying is I'm scared when we lose in the playoffs it might be because Kurt has another turnover meltdown game. I can handle a team just going out and beating us, we play well, they play better, I just don't want to see a game like in '98 where any slim chance we had of beating the Vikings ended in the first half due to Jake's turnovers burying us.

If we're going to lose I want to lose to a better team, not because of mistakes, especially preventable ones like hitting defensive players in the numbers which Kurt has been doing too much in recent games.

Here is the deal.

If the Cardinals are going to go out and win a playoff game, it will be because of Warner.

Who else do you think can go out and win a playoff game? Tim Hightower? Our wretched defense? Rackers?

Take away the passing part of the game, and every team in the playoffs will clearly be better than us...and by a gigantic margin.

Our only hope of winning lies with Kurt and his right arm.

He will need to make magic.

Maybe he stinks up the joint and we get whacked. But don't pretend that he can just play it safe, and we have any chance of beating a decent playoff team.

 

[jefftheshark]

Just because I don't "love" Warner doesn't necessarily mean that I hate him either. He is what he is, and I'm glad he's on our team rather than on the Rams. You take the good with the bad with any player and right now the good definitely outweighs the bad.

My personal opinion, (and there is no way proving it, so take for what it is worth), is that I don't think that Warner is doing anything that Leinart won't be able to do next year, but only if Leinart gets his head out of his rear end.

When I was in Flagstaff this past training camp, you could see a physical change in Warner's appearance. You could see definition and a "leanness" about him that was missing in years prior, and that translated into a sharper performance on the field. It was instantly apparent that Warner was taking this season seriously, and Leinart was upstaged. The lesson of the offseason wasn't lost on me, and I hope that it wasn't lost on Leinart either.

I'm enjoying the ride this year and I hope that Leinart isn't. I'm hoping that this season sticks in his craw and that he comes back next year with a burning desire to put Warner's butt back on the bench.

And if that makes me a Leinart lover, then so be it.

JTS

 

[82CardsGrad]

Without debating your decision, I'm always curious what each person considers HOF qualifiers. Namath and Sayers throw monkey wrenches into the longevity argument.

Agree... But in reality, Warner has had what, 3-4 great years?? While I believe he is immensely talented and truly one of the great QB's in NFL history, his numbers are seriously lacking...
Any discussion of HoF worthiness is always a very subjective discussion... I just think Warner needs another year of league-leading production and post season appearance...
Unless of course he takes the Cards to the Super Bowl this season!

 

[Rats]

Only ones making derogatory comments about Kurts season are the same guys that were wanting Matt in the training camp threads. Cheese coach Whis named Matt simply because he is the organization golden boy and he is signed for several years. Kurt had one season left. Whis rectified that decision right quick once it was apparent that Warner was clearly sharper in camp. Matt will be a fine Qb but you can not have an offense like we have and have a Qb that can't read a defense and holds the ball to long. Kurt despite his warts has shown he is capable of playing at a high level in this kind of offense. Not sure our running game or Defense can. Hope Kurt stays around for 2 more years until Matt is either ready or moves on. Either way we should enjoy Kurts season. We may not see another one by a Qb in our uniform. Go Cards!! Division Champs!!!1

 

[moklerman]

Unless of course he takes the Cards to the Super Bowl this season!

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That would make him automatic for sure. He'll likely end up as the #1 or #2 most accurate of all time which will carry some weight. He's already top 4 in rating and could be #2 or #1 when he retires. He'll have 2 of the 3 most yardage seasons in NFC history. Most TD's in a season in the NFC(41). He's on pace for leading the league in completion % for the 4th time.

The numbers, I think, could hold up and they're the weakest part of his defense. Next come the accolades. 2 time MVP, Super Bowl winner/MVP, multiple Pro bowls, etc. I think those hold up as well.

Last is the media perception. His rags to riches story will carry the most weight as the GSOT Rams were so unexpected and such a good story. Throw in the fact that he comes back from the proverbial dead to lead the Cardinals to a division crown and maybe more?

His case is a lot strong after the last two years and maybe good enough, even now, to get him in.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Agree... But in reality, Warner has had what, 3-4 great years?? While I believe he is immensely talented and truly one of the great QB's in NFL history, his numbers are seriously lacking...
Any discussion of HoF worthiness is always a very subjective discussion... I just think Warner needs another year of league-leading production and post season appearance...
Unless of course he takes the Cards to the Super Bowl this season!

I agree whole heartedly, but If KW wins the MVP this year he's a lock for the HOF. I never thought I would be saying that. But he'd also be the only player to win the MVP with two different teams.

 

[conraddobler]

Cheese, the only ones that are scared by Warner are the Leinart fans and the ones that wanted him under center from the get go. Warner haters are always going to be there to because of his religous mantra. Not some perceived Turnover problem that every starting QB in the league deals with. Why aren't we talking about the sacks Kurt has taken. Oh wait...he hasn't taken many. Most Cards fans are celebrating the Division Championship that Kurt Warners MVP type season has brought us. I think it is time to give up the hate and get on the bandwagon.

Um wrong.

I've been saying Warner was the best option consistently.

My problems with Warner are because of Warner but I've never said Matt is a better option right now.

The problem is we're going to probably do something stupid and lock Kurt up to a long term deal at probably the apex of his abilities.

Matt can sit another year as far as I care but what about two years from now? What if we give Warner a three or four year deal?

Warner dosen't need to cut out every pick, he needs to cut out about the worst 20%, the unecessary throw the damn ball away picks, just like he fumbles when he should of thrown the damn ball away.

What Kurts doing wrong is going to kill us at the worst possible moment against a team we need every advantage we can get against, he's going to toss our season right into the other teams hands mark my words.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Warner is a HOF QB. To me that isn't an issue. Honestly we are lucky to have two HOF players on our roster this year, even if one has declined significantly.

 

[conraddobler]

That would make him automatic for sure. He'll likely end up as the #1 or #2 most accurate of all time which will carry some weight. He's already top 4 in rating and could be #2 or #1 when he retires. He'll have 2 of the 3 most yardage seasons in NFC history. Most TD's in a season in the NFC(41). He's on pace for leading the league in completion % for the 4th time.

The numbers, I think, could hold up and they're the weakest part of his defense. Next come the accolades. 2 time MVP, Super Bowl winner/MVP, multiple Pro bowls, etc. I think those hold up as well.

Last is the media perception. His rags to riches story will carry the most weight as the GSOT Rams were so unexpected and such a good story. Throw in the fact that he comes back from the proverbial dead to lead the Cardinals to a division crown and maybe more?

His case is a lot strong after the last two years and maybe good enough, even now, to get him in.

Well if he plays up to his abilities and cuts down on his mistakes if he takes every ounce of good Kurt and lays it out on the field of battle we could win the Super Bowl and if we did then he's a shoe in so I'm rooting for him.