Alex Len...LET HIM GO!

[pokerface]

Len kinda reminds me of "fool's gold"...He looks good at a distance until closer examination...Then he don't pass the taste test!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, as much as I bag on Len, I think he has largely put the health questions to bed. If he gets hurt again I suspect it will be something new and not some condition that we worry is chronic.

My opinion overall is; the guy is barely replacement level right now. Yes, some similar players got big paydays last summer but those were given out by some franchises that wretched, IMO not a behavior to emulate.

If someone offers him 15 million, let him walk.

Then we might as well try to trade him in February, I think the chance he doesn't get offered more than 15M is somewhere near zero. He's played much better as a starter than a sub and even as a "barely replacement level" sub he's probably worth close to 15. The loose money is still out there at least for a few more years, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get offers of 18 or more.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't believe in giving out high paid long term contracts to players based on what they "could" be...thats what the draft is for. They get paid on their history and more importantly what they're doing right now. That is why it's called a "contract year" because that's what the contract is based on...the current year. He shouldn't be rewarded for underperforming.

You're confusing the NBA with something other than the NBA. You can "not believe" all you want but that's the way the league works.

 

[pokerface]

You're confusing the NBA with something other than the NBA. You can "not believe" all you want but that's the way the league works.

The Sun's could have overpaid Len already by extending him...They chose not to and let the market set the price. They have so little faith in his upside and value that they don't even care to lock him in.

Remember the Bledsoe negotiations? They had a disagreement too but they still extended him... Why?... Because they respected his game. Len isn't respected.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Sun's could have overpaid Len already by extending him...They chose not to and let the market set the price. They have so little faith in his upside and value that they don't even care to lock him in.

Remember the Bledsoe negotiations? They had a disagreement too but they still extended him... Why?... Because they respected his game. Len isn't respected.

I'm not trying to be rude but you're misinformed. This is just the way it went with Bledsoe. We tried to him early and couldn't reach an agreement. After the season Eric became a Restricted Free Agent and we again negotiated and eventually signed him prior to the deadline. We'll have the same chance with Alex. He's about to become a Restricted Free Agent and we'll continue to hold his rights and try to reach an agreement, if not he'll play one last year with us and then he'll become an Unrestricted Free Agent.

And you're misinterpreting the process and what it means, IMO. It doesn't tell the world that we have little faith in him, nothing of the sort. I do believe we have some concerns but this was just a case of his agent wanting more than we wanted to pay. It happens often and it's not indicative of anything more than that.

This is conjecture in large part but it's my belief that we wanted very much to sign him to an early extension. I suspect we offered around 12M per and his agent demanded 15M. I think, as deals started hitting big numbers, that we came very close to agreeing to this higher number but then the preseason games started.

Len was abysmal during the preseason. He was so bad that I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the agent dropped his demands. By then, though, we were so alarmed by his play that we weren't willing to even put our 12 million per deal back on the table. But since then, he's played pretty well as a starter. And he's been very hit and miss as a backup. So we have a dilemma and I have no clue which way we'll go.

 

[pokerface]

People still going back to..."he's just 23"..Like he's just going to turn it on an be a "beast" all of a sudden in the future. Like this is his fourth year...What hasn't he learned yet? He has Chandler as a mentor... Coaches.. Trainers...and everything else to have learned from . I gave him a pass the first couple years over his foot issues...Well time for excuses is OVER. If we sign this clod we'll be looking to unload him shortly thereafter...Just like Brandon.

 

[Phrazbit]

Then we might as well try to trade him in February, I think the chance he doesn't get offered more than 15M is somewhere near zero. He's played much better as a starter than a sub and even as a "barely replacement level" sub he's probably worth close to 15. The loose money is still out there at least for a few more years, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get offers of 18 or more.

I know, per 100 possessions, we get outscored by 11 with him on the court and 2 with him off of it, the only player with a worse swing than that on the team is Knight (a stunning -15 to +1). We're worse with him on the court. I don't think we'd miss him. And, as I said, the teams who gave out those bonkers contracts to backup quality centers are some of the worst teams in the league, not behavior to emulate.

I honestly don't think they even tried to work out an extension. We never heard a peep about it being discussed during the off season. They probably broached the subject, his agent probably threw out some silly number and they said "we'll talk next summer". They're in wait and see mode with him, as they should have been because he was dreadful last year.

I don't care what the salaries being thrown around are, when your team is preforming as poorly as we do when Len is in the game vs when he is out you don't give them a big extension, you should question whether they're worth keeping at any price. I agree that he isn't THAT bad but what we've seen of Len is not a useful player and he can easily be replaced.

Len should have been born 20 years earlier, he would have been a solid player in the late 90s NBA, but in today's game there just isn't much use for plodding bigs who can't defend away from the rim, with bad hands and zero scoring ability away from the rim.

 

[pokerface]

I'm not trying to be rude but you're misinformed. This is just the way it went with Bledsoe. We tried to him early and couldn't reach an agreement. After the season Eric became a Restricted Free Agent and we again negotiated and eventually signed him prior to the deadline. We'll have the same chance with Alex. He's about to become a Restricted Free Agent and we'll continue to hold his rights and try to reach an agreement, if not he'll play one last year with us and then he'll become an Unrestricted Free Agent.

And you're misinterpreting the process and what it means, IMO. It doesn't tell the world that we have little faith in him, nothing of the sort. I do believe we have some concerns but this was just a case of his agent wanting more than we wanted to pay. It happens often and it's not indicative of anything more than that.

This is conjecture in large part but it's my belief that we wanted very much to sign him to an early extension. I suspect we offered around 12M per and his agent demanded 15M. I think, as deals started hitting big numbers, that we came very close to agreeing to this higher number but then the preseason games started.

Len was abysmal during the preseason. He was so bad that I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the agent dropped his demands. By then, though, we were so alarmed by his play that we weren't willing to even put our 12 million per deal back on the table. But since then, he's played pretty well as a starter. And he's been very hit and miss as a backup. So we have a dilemma and I have no clue which way we'll go.

To me Len is such a non factor that I don't care what happens... He's barely worth talking about. I just don't want the Sun's locked in long term with this loser unless he gets paid "backup center" wages. He's not a starter that can be relied on... He will not improve enough for anyones taste.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know, per 100 possessions, we get outscored by 11 with him on the court and 2 with him off of it, the only player with a worse swing than that on the team is Knight (a stunning -15 to +1).

And no surprise that Len was stuck playing with Knight most of the time. But I won't argue that he's been very up and down as a backup, even more down than up. He's had some bad games as a starter too but once he settled in he usually played pretty well except for those games where he picked up a second or third foul early, he tended to fall apart when that happened. And it was pretty clear in the radio interviews where Ryan discussed Len that they did negotiate.

 

[pokerface]

Here is something else...I don't want someone with a lackluster work ethic and a slow learning curve being around our young studs bringing them down. I think more of our young players than having to endure Lens up and down game. He should have worked out his issues by now...He can be some other teams unsolvable "riddle".

 

[Phrazbit]

Here is something else...I don't want someone with a lackluster work ethic and a slow learning curve being around our young studs bringing them down. I think more of our young players than having to endure Lens up and down game. He should have worked out his issues by now...He can be some other teams unsolvable "riddle".

I don't think he has a bad work ethic, it appears to me he is trying hard. He just has bad instincts and often gets lost out there.

 

[pokerface]

OK I'll accept that...I think I misinterpet his slow progress as bad work ethic. I just keep feeling he should be further along than he is.

 

[leclerc]

Big men usually take longer to develop in the NBA. I think we should continue to have patience with him.

 

[Errntknght]

Len was passable as a starter a couple of years ago so letting him go without giving him a good look as a starter now, seems just plain dumb. Personally, I'd go as far as trading Chandler just so it's clear to Len he's our man in the middle. I want us to have a handle on how high we are willing to go if it comes to a bidding war.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Len was passable as a starter a couple of years ago so letting him go without giving him a good look as a starter now, seems just plain dumb. Personally, I'd go as far as trading Chandler just so it's clear to Len he's our man in the middle. I want us to have a handle on how high we are willing to go if it comes to a bidding war.

No offense but that is just plain dumb. Nobody in their right mind would trade Chandler the way he is dominating the boards this season and especially to give Len the starting nod. Len is barely a backup center with next to no skills. As Al McCoy would say "Oh Brother!"

 

[AzStevenCal]

No offense but that is just plain dumb. Nobody in their right mind would trade Chandler the way he is dominating the boards this season and especially to give Len the starting nod. Len is barely a backup center with next to no skills. As Al McCoy would say "Oh Brother!"

He's consistently played poorly as a backup center and for the most part, decently as a starting center. The "Oh Brother" should be saved for those that keep calling him a backup center.

And Chandler is playing at a level he probably hasn't seen since he won a championship with Dallas. I'm sure that's great advice about hanging onto him so we can win games that don't matter but I think it makes a lot more sense to trade him before his legs remember his age.

 

[Mainstreet]

He's consistently played poorly as a backup center and for the most part, decently as a starting center. The "Oh Brother" should be saved for those that keep calling him a backup center.

And Chandler is playing at a level he probably hasn't seen since he won a championship with Dallas. I'm sure that's great advice about hanging onto him so we can win games that don't matter but I think it makes a lot more sense to trade him before his legs remember his age.

It would make some sense to keep Chandler if the Suns do not plan to match a large offer for Len. I'm not sure if the Suns would match such an offer.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

He's consistently played poorly as a backup center and for the most part, decently as a starting center. The "Oh Brother" should be saved for those that keep calling him a backup center.

And Chandler is playing at a level he probably hasn't seen since he won a championship with Dallas. I'm sure that's great advice about hanging onto him so we can win games that don't matter but I think it makes a lot more sense to trade him before his legs remember his age.

Sorry but that makes zero sense. Minutes are minutes, starting or off the bench. A player can either play the game or he cant. And its obvious the coaches are seeing the same things out of Len that I do watching from my living room. When Len is in the game they give up leads or fall further behind that is why the coaches are yanking him out more often and leaving in Chandler at his advanced age. Lol. Just watch Len in a game. He cant box out, gets pushed underneath the hoop so he cant rebound, has no inside game unless he stuffs it, has very little outside shot, bad hands, foul prone, and struggles against bigger centers. Did I miss anything?
But, your right, he should be starting.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It would make some sense to keep Chandler if the Suns do not plan to match a large offer for Len. I'm not sure if the Suns would match such an offer.

Chandler makes us better right now. If that's our priority, we should keep him. If not, we should trade him and find out whether we want to spend the money it will take to re-sign Len. Alex has been a disappointment when he's been our backup center and in those few games where he started over Chandler; it's time to find out for sure whether we can live with him as a starter and that really needs to be done before he becomes a Restricted Free Agent in a few months.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

I would agree if the Suns are on the fence with resigning Len they need to let him start so theyll know for sure to let hm walk at seasons end. Plus, we'll be sure to have a better draft pick. Win - win!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Chandler makes us better right now. If that's our priority, we should keep him. If not, we should trade him and find out whether we want to spend the money it will take to re-sign Len. Alex has been a disappointment when he's been our backup center and in those few games where he started over Chandler; it's time to find out for sure whether we can live with him as a starter and that really needs to be done before he becomes a Restricted Free Agent in a few months.

That's the case I have been making. The Suns are saying that Chandler wants to be here and he makes a huge difference in the locker room and on the practice court, that he is critical to the development of the younger players. If that is really the case, then I am fine with keeping him. Having that type of a player who is an ambassador for the team both inside and outside the organization will really help with free agents etc.

 

[Mainstreet]

Chandler makes us better right now. If that's our priority, we should keep him. If not, we should trade him and find out whether we want to spend the money it will take to re-sign Len. Alex has been a disappointment when he's been our backup center and in those few games where he started over Chandler; it's time to find out for sure whether we can live with him as a starter and that really needs to be done before he becomes a Restricted Free Agent in a few months.

It could be, unless Chandler is traded, the Suns have already made up their mind about Len. I dislike losing an asset but I am unsure if the Suns want to match a high offer by another team in free agency to keep him. I'm getting a lot of mixed feelings about the matter.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It could be, unless Chandler is traded, the Suns have already made up their mind about Len. I dislike losing an asset but I am unsure if the Suns want to match a high offer by another team in free agency to keep him. I'm getting a lot of mixed feelings about the matter.

That's quite true, they may have already drawn a line in the sand on him salary wise or decided to part ways regardless of money.

I disagreed when I first read this but I know some people have thought that we were going to continue using Len as a backup in order to keep his price down. I'm starting to think that's a possibility too.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'd be okay with starting Len only because it would be a sly tanking move and should help lose games at an even further rapid pace.

 

[leclerc]

I would tell Len we're going to be patient with him and that we're looking to extend his contract. When the time comes he is our starter. We're not playoff competitive for a couple of years and we have enough dough to lock up Booker when he needs a contract. Let's not screw this up like we lost Nash, Fins, and other guys who broke out on the next team.