Amare for KG thoughts

[myrondizzo]

the thing that kills the deal for me is that we have to Amare, KT and picks. not to mention the strain KG puts on the salary cap. i think that we can get him for less. if not no sense in over paying for him. i feel like we were a cheap shot away from winning a title so we need to tweak not change a key piece.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

If all the above reasons don't turn you off to this trade consider that ATL and Minn. fans are salivating at the thought of this deal going down. That should tell you enough that you are getting hosed.

But we jus gota change pah, change er good, git er' dun pahleeze.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

If all the above reasons don't turn you off to this trade consider that ATL and Minn. fans are salivating at the thought of this deal going down. That should tell you enough that you are getting hosed.

Of course ATL is salivating, and Minnesota doesn't care about losing KG right now.

I just want to win, and I KNOW KG will be an upgrade over Amare.

I would rather not do it of course, I'd rather see Marion go...that's my 1st choice.

But IF they are going to do the Amare deal, I can see why.

 

[mribnik]

Of course ATL is salivating, and Minnesota doesn't care about losing KG right now.

I just want to win, and I KNOW KG will be an upgrade over Amare.

I would rather not do it of course, I'd rather see Marion go...that's my 1st choice.

But IF they are going to do the Amare deal, I can see why.

Why do you think KG would be an upgrade over Amare, especially against Dallas and San Antonio?

Do you believe KG would be an upgrade over Amare + KT + picks?

 

[Treesquid PhD]

KG and Amare both have a post-up game, but neither of them use it. KG chooses to shoot jumpshots and I believe the Suns decided not to put Amare in back-to-the-basket situations because they thought it put more stress on his knees. After a year where he played in every game (minus game 5 against SA) they'll probably be more likely to use him in that way.

There were a few memorable post-ups by Amare this year. The first was in the game against the Wizards in Phoenix. They gave Amare the ball in the post and he spun toward the baseline and finished with a reverse dunk. Also, in that double-overtime game against the Mavericks, they gave Amare the ball quite a few times in the post and he dominated Dirk/Dampier/etc.

I can't think of a more overrated concept in basketball than the "back to the basket" position.

who cares? as long as you either 1) make the goal 2) get to the foul line and make the free throws.

 

[scotsman13]

ok lets see you want to give up our best scorer and the top post defender on the suns for almost the same in points and block and a 2 more rebounds and drawing less fouls from the other team?

getting garrnet for marion is an improvement but giving up amare for garrnet isnt really an improvement and may really hurt the team in a year or two.

 

[mribnik]

I can't think of a more overrated concept in basketball than the "back to the basket" position.

who cares? as long as you either 1) make the goal 2) get to the foul line and make the free throws.

Obviously it doesn't matter how you score as long as you score. However, a player having a back-to-the-basket game is better than a player not having one. It would certainly help Amare to develop that part of his game.

With regard to Amare vs. KG, the point was that Amare scores in the paint and KG mostly takes jumpshots.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Why do you think KG would be an upgrade over Amare, especially against Dallas and San Antonio?

Do you believe KG would be an upgrade over Amare + KT + picks?

Because Garnett can guard Duncan better than Amare...better than Kurt, I believe.

And he has a better outside shot, and a better post up game. He doesn't have to score off pick and rolls from Nash, he can shoot post-up fadeways which are critical in crunch times. He probably is a better passer out of the post too.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

I can't think of a more overrated concept in basketball than the "back to the basket" position.

who cares? as long as you either 1) make the goal 2) get to the foul line and make the free throws.

That's ridiculous

Duncan...if he had no post-up game, he wouldn't be near as good as he is.

From the post you can play one on one and score, or pass to a cutter or open man.

Amare can't do that yet...he can spin and drive, but he had no fadeway yet. He needs Nash to set him up a lot on pick and rolls.

Garnett's playoff game is just better right now.

Guys, I love Amare, and I'm not saying he's like barely in the top 25 or something, I know he's good and will be great, but I think at this point, Garnett would be better.

But who knows...this whole thing has my head spinning and I just want it to end.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That's ridiculous

Duncan...if he had no post-up game, he wouldn't be near as good as he is.

From the post you can play one on one and score, or pass to a cutter or open man.

Amare can't do that yet...he can spin and drive, but he had no fadeway yet. He needs Nash to set him up a lot on pick and rolls.

Garnett's playoff game is just better right now.

Guys, I love Amare, and I'm not saying he's like barely in the top 25 or something, I know he's good and will be great, but I think at this point, Garnett would be better.

But who knows...this whole thing has my head spinning and I just want it to end.

Duncan doesn't have a fadeaway either. He shot one against us in the series, and it was an eyeopener. That's about the only thing that Duncan can't do consistently in the post. To his credit, he doesn't need to.

 

[BuddyFranklin]

I don't like giving up Amare for KG straight up. Not a good deal imo. He isn't the problem. Marion ought to go for player/picks and thats it. Holds us still in the championship race and gets us a solid future. Who says that with KG with have what it takes to beat Dallas.

But really when i logged on I knew Amare would go. Its always the way. JJ went now its that all over again with Amare. Not good! Amare is a SUN damn it. Keep it that way.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Garnett's playoff game is just better right now.

yeah, this is TOTALLY wrong - Garnett's shooting dips in the playoffs and his stats don't come close to Amare's across the board, except for assist.

 

[oneofthesedays]

Garnett's playoff game??? The guy only made it past the 1st round once.

Some delusional Laker fans think that the only reason Phoenix is doing this is to nix the prospect of KG+KB in LA. Personally I think it's stupid to think like that because even if KG comes to LA our team will be completely gutted. We will have nobody else to play around these guys next season so Phoenix will still have their shot with the same squad.

 

[AsUdUdE]

yeah, this is TOTALLY wrong - Garnett's shooting dips in the playoffs and his stats don't come close to Amare's across the board, except for assist.

and over the past year Amare has Grown in leaps and bounds as far as his passing ability...

hell.. if Diaw didn't miss 3 layups a game Amare's assist average probably would have been up around 4 or 5....

Amare is a MUCH better passer now than he ever has been, and will only continue to get better...

 

[Cheesebeef]

honestly, why anyone thinks this gives us a chance to beat the Spurs is beyond me. Parker/Ginobli/Duncan is SO FAR AND AWAY better than Nash/Marion/Garnett it's not even funny. In that scenario, we actually lose the ONE guy who consistetnly is able to cancel out his matchup with Duncan. We're losing that series because Bowen shuts down Nash and Marion gets shut down by whatever midget is on the floor. Put Duncan on Garnett and KG gets shut down as well. Great... and Marion likely opts out of his deal next summer and leaves for nothing and we lose KT and the Hawks get Amare, which means their picknext year will be NOTHING.

So basically, if we do this deal, we have NO big man depth, we have three guys who can't lockdown the Spurs, even though everyone of our guys has been locked down by them at the same time, and then next year, Marion isn't offered what he wants when he opts out, leaving us with an old KG/Nash and a worthless ATL pick.

Yeah, that seems like a reason to make a lateral at best move for one year.

Give me a break - the thinking in this thread is EXACTLY what McHale WANTS to happen. I don't believe the Suns to be this far OR near-sighted.

 

[Chaplin]

The reason for Amare leaving AND staying are essentially the same--it's about the future. One one hand, you have a 24-year-old 1st-teammer, on the other, you have a recent microfracture victim with a probable chance of more surgery in 4 years. Which one is the bigger risk?

 

[Chaplin]

honestly, why anyone thinks this gives us a chance to beat the Spurs is beyond me. Parker/Ginobli/Duncan is SO FAR AND AWAY better than Nash/Marion/Garnett it's not even funny. In that scenario, we actually lose the ONE guy who consistetnly is able to cancel out his matchup with Duncan. We're losing that series because Bowen shuts down Nash and Marion gets shut down by whatever midget is on the floor. Put Duncan on Garnett and KG gets shut down as well. Great... and Marion likely opts out of his deal next summer and leaves for nothing and we lose KT and the Hawks get Amare, which means their picknext year will be NOTHING.

So basically, if we do this deal, we have NO big man depth, we have three guys who can't lockdown the Spurs, even though everyone of our guys has been locked down by them at the same time, and then next year, Marion isn't offered what he wants when he opts out, leaving us with an old KG/Nash and a worthless ATL pick.

Yeah, that seems like a reason to make a lateral at best move for one year.

Give me a break - the thinking in this thread is EXACTLY what McHale WANTS to happen. I don't believe the Suns to be this far OR near-sighted.

Not that I completely disagree with you, but Amare couldn't do JACK against Duncan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

again, doing this deal makes next year ALL or nothing. That's the height of stupidity considering how close we were this year, WITH a bundle of fresh talent and a pick next year that could be pretty good, unless that is we are complete morons and somehow completely devalue that pick by sending Amare to the Hawks.

Nash/Marion/KG is not good enough to overcome the way Duncan/Parker/Ginobli kill us.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not that I completely disagree with you, but Amare couldn't do JACK against Duncan.

I didn't say he did - HOWEVER, Duncan couldn't stop him either and THAT'S the point. You have to come out better in how two of the three superstars from each team contributes. Even if KG MATCHES Duncan's impact (which I don't believe he can), were still on the wrong end of Marion/Nash versus Parker/Ginobli. That's why it's a lateral move AT BEST, AND FOR YEAR, considering Marion is apparently dumb enough to opt-out and by giving the Hawks Amare, their future first will be dog-crap.

 

[hsandhu]

This deal is not happening, it was thrown out by McHale last night to stir it up.

The big thing is Marion. Will boston take him w/o an extension knowing:
1) there is not a great chance he will opt out of 17.1 million
2) if he does opt out, what teams have space that he actually wants to be at, plus boston can offer him the most
3) they can still talk extension the rest of the summer, convince him then
4) is not taking a non-extended marion worth the risk, will pierce be upset enough that you take him w/o an extension anyway

I believe these are the issues we have to see play themselves out between now and tomorrow.

 

[oneofthesedays]

All Phoenix needs is someone better than KT to guard Duncan. And don't blow your homecourt advantage.

 

[Cheesebeef]

2) if does opt out, what teams have space that he actually wants to be at, plus boston can offer him the most

Unbelievably, SA is gonna have a TON of cap-space next off-season.

 

[hsandhu]

Unbelievably, SA is gonna have a TON of cap-space next off-season.

Where'd you get that, they have 45 million tied up in their big three. Marion would have to take 9 million (not gonna leave 17 for 9) and s.a. would need 8 (vet) min contracts.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Where'd you get that, they have 45 million tied up in their big three. Marion would have to take 9 million (not gonna leave 17 for 9) and s.a. would need 8 (vet) min contracts.

but that cap will go up TWICE in that span - once in this off-season, then again next off-season.

 

[hsandhu]

but that cap will go up TWICE in that span - once in this off-season, then again next off-season.

Yeah, I'm taking that into account. Anyway that just doesn't seem like a plausible scenario. Gotta hope Ainge will call Marion's bluff, if not, then get the liquor ready