Amare haters...

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Dirk
KG
Bosh
Dwight
Paul
Duncan


Which two do you put UNDER Amare for overall talent?

 

[jandaman]

My favorite player. Nice spelling of favorite. No my favorite player is Joe Johnson. I think Black Jesus tattoed on amare's neck is funny.

And Amare is a top 5 scorer in the NBA and top 8 talent

Im from Australia... We spell Favorite as Favourite.

Center as Centre.... Thats the way i was educated here.

But I did lived in USA for a year and learnt many many differences, but the spelling.. I learnt that when I was in the 7th grade.



Regarding Joe Johson.. I think the Suns should go all out to get him. He is the solution for the PG/SG/SF spot. Give him a 6 year 90 Million contract.. and go for another semi-star for the 50~60 Million.

JRich should stll be okay by then, Hopefully some of the non-factor players become Factor players by then also.

You cant bank on Stoudemire for 130 Million 6 year contract. Because HE cannot carry a team by himself, he is only a scorer.
To be a good team with Stoudemire you need a good defensive C, a good PG and a couple of other good starters.

With 30% of the cap room on Stoudemire, you WON'T fill those spots.


Atleast by opting for a Joe Johnson, Suns can still get another star and hopefully sign other IMPACT players.

Plus my confidence on Stoudemire's knees arent very high. Look at T-Mac now, he is killing the Rox. Stoudemire is almost sure to get another surgery and miss games here and there while rehabbing... you want 30% of your cap room on a player who cannot be 100% and/or not playing?


No thanks.

 

[Black Jesus]

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Dirk
KG
Bosh
Dwight
Paul
Duncan


Which two do you put UNDER Amare for overall talent?

Easy Bosh and Dirk

 

[Black Jesus]

Im from Australia... We spell Favorite as Favourite.

Center as Centre.... Thats the way i was educated here.

But I did lived in USA for a year and learnt many many differences, but the spelling.. I learnt that when I was in the 7th grade.



Regarding Joe Johson.. I think the Suns should go all out to get him. He is the solution for the PG/SG/SF spot. Give him a 6 year 90 Million contract.. and go for another semi-star for the 50~60 Million.

JRich should stll be okay by then, Hopefully some of the non-factor players become Factor players by then also.

You cant bank on Stoudemire for 130 Million 6 year contract. Because HE cannot carry a team by himself, he is only a scorer.
To be a good team with Stoudemire you need a good defensive C, a good PG and a couple of other good starters.

With 30% of the cap room on Stoudemire, you WON'T fill those spots.


Atleast by opting for a Joe Johnson, Suns can still get another star and hopefully sign other IMPACT players.

Plus my confidence on Stoudemire's knees arent very high. Look at T-Mac now, he is killing the Rox. Stoudemire is almost sure to get another surgery and miss games here and there while rehabbing... you want 30% of your cap room on a player who cannot be 100% and/or not playing?


No thanks.

Ive been saying all along. Joe Johnson and Amare in 2010. Glad we agree on the JJ.

 

[overseascardfan]

Ive been saying all along. Joe Johnson and Amare in 2010. Glad we agree on the JJ.

I am not so sure Amar'e will be here in 2010, hell Wednesday PHX was still trying to trade him to MEM for Gay, Warrick, Conley & a 1st rounder but got turned down. This summer if we do not at least get close to a championship Sarver will not stand for paying out the LT and will ship out players like Shaq, Amar'e and maybe even LB.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/91730-grizzlies-pass-again-on-amare-offer

 

[Black Jesus]

Look, we just don't need some "I told you so" running around spouting half facts and distorting peoples feelings after the Suns win a couple games. The fans just start feeling good and you're there to stir up some nonsense over nothing and gloating over who knows what.


Everyone LOVES Amare for the right price. Some just do not feel he's worth a max salary/max years contract. We all know the NBA is a money game too...If X amount is spent somewhere then Y amount will be spent less somewhere else. Some of us have misgivings about an overpaid Amare long term....that has been discussed on this board for awhile now. That don't make us haters just Suns fans!

If you were a Suns fan, why wouldn't you want a 26 year old athletic forward who can score and is approaching his peak? You want to keep Nash and Shaq, me too? But if keeping Nash and Shaq means losing Amare, that is stupid for the Suns, not stupid in terms of losing Amare. I could care less about Amare the individual on the court, it is just my belief that he is who this team HAS to build around going into 2010... Would I rather have LeBron, Rose, Anthony, Kobe, or Dwight going into the future... Yes, but thats not about to happen.

Nash is still effective in a running system, but still a liability on D and old as balls. Shaq is old too and his contract is ridiculous. Losing Amare at that expense is ridiculous

^
Pretty much.

And the nerve to call "us" (fans who didnt mind trading Stoudemire).. Band wagoners is just so wrong.

If anything, we are the true fans.... for the franchise as opposed to a player.

I'm a bandwagoner?

Anyways, my question to you guys who were supportive of trading Amare. What next? build around Nash and Shaq for next year? And then sign who in 2010? LeBron is not coming to PHX, Bosh is not as good as Amare. Yes I want Joe Johnson, but I think Amare can take over a game more than Joe, but Joe has that clutch shot.

Trading Amare would just put more talent away, its frustrating how every analyst that has ever played... Webber, Barkley, The Jet, and others can tell everyone how ridiculous it would be to trade Amare, especially with no plan moving forward.

My name has nothing to do with my support of Amare over the team, I just thought Black Jesus was a funny tattoo to have on your neck. Love the Suns, which is why I still check box scores to see how Joe is doing and how Boris is doing, yet still root for the Suns, and guess what. Amare is whats best for the Suns

 

[elindholm]

There is a saying that a pig doesnt know that a pig stinks. Some may take shots at posters, others at players.

Which category are you in?

 

[Covert Rain]

Anyways, my question to you guys who were supportive of trading Amare. What next?

I am all for trading Amare only if you can bring a defensive oriented rebounding PF in return. Finding a good defensive/rebounding PF is harder IMO then a scoring PF.

I am not for trading Amare for crap. That would be stupid. Trading Amare does not mean building around Shaq and Nash. That's silly.

 

[Black Jesus]

I am all for trading Amare only if you can bring a defensive oriented rebounding PF in return. Finding a good defensive/rebounding PF is harder IMO then a scoring PF.

I am not for trading Amare for crap. That would be stupid. Trading Amare does not mean building around Shaq and Nash. That's silly.

What other good scoring PF are there?

KG? Bosh? Gasol? Those guys aren't on Amare's scoring level. Amare is the best big man scorer not named LeBron in the league.

 

[Covert Rain]

What other good scoring PF are there?

KG? Bosh? Gasol? Those guys aren't on Amare's scoring level. Amare is the best big man scorer not named LeBron in the league.

Really? There are many scoring PF in this league on par or close to Amare's scoring.

Amare - 21.4

Dirk Nowitzki - Better (25.9)
David West - 19.8
Al Jefferson - Better (23.1)
Chris Bosh - Better (22.8)
Zac Randolph - Same (21.4)
Tim Duncan - 21.9 (I will get back to this in a minute)
Carlos Boozer - (20.5)
Al Harrington - (20.5)
Gasol, Okur and Alridge at about 18 PPG.
This doesn't even include KG at 16.4 which isn't 21.4 but is a better player.

It's not like Amare is head and shoulders above all PF in the NBA as you can see in scoring. In fact, 4 of those guys are better. Your acting like Amare is the MJ of Power Forwards. As you can see that's far from the truth. Amare is a very good scoring PF but he is not alone.

Here is the kicker. Several of those guys on the list above are either better on the glass, better on the defensive end or BOTH.

You see where I am going with this? Give me a guy that scores almost as many points as Amare but plays on the other side of the ball as well any day over Amare.

I will take even 15 PPG at the PF position if the guy gets you 10 boards and is a defensive player. Like KG. That is why Amare is not the best PF in this league.

 

[jandaman]

Really? There are many scoring PF in this league on par or close to Amare's scoring.

Amare - 21.4

Dirk Nowitzki - Better (25.9)
David West - 19.8
Al Jefferson - Better (23.1)
Chris Bosh - Better (22.8)
Zac Randolph - Same (21.4)
Tim Duncan - 21.9 (I will get back to this in a minute)
Carlos Boozer - (20.5)
Al Harrington - (20.5)
Gasol, Okur and Alridge at about 18 PPG.
This doesn't even include KG at 16.4 which isn't 21.4 but is a better player.

It's not like Amare is head and shoulders above all PF in the NBA as you can see in scoring. In fact, 4 of those guys are better. Your acting like Amare is the MJ of Power Forwards. As you can see that's far from the truth. Amare is a very good scoring PF but he is not alone.

Here is the kicker. Several of those guys on the list above either better on the glass, better on the defensive end or BOTH.

You see where I am going with this? Give me a guy that scores almost as many points as Amare but plays on the other side of the ball as well any day over Amare.

I will take even 15 PPG at the PF position if the guy gets you 10 boards and is a defensive player.

I agree with this.

Technically... If Stoudemire and Al Jefferson was on the market.. and you have 100 Million dollars to sign either one.

Who WOULD YOU PICK?

Stoudemire: 25~27 PPG, 8~9 RPG, 1-1.5 BPG, (Weak defender, relies on quickness, had knee problems)


Jefferson: 22~24 PPG, 10~12 RPG, 1-1.5 BPG, (Solid defender, relies on fundamental post moves)

I would take the obvious one.





The ONLY way Stoudemire can get away as being a mediocre rebounder... is if he contributes in facilitating.

If Stoudemire can somehow be LeBron James's Interior equivalent... then it would be okay to throw that much money on him.

But.. Stoudemire cannot create for his team mates, tends to turn it over more so than create a pass/assists.

Stoudemire can give 5+ assists a game along with his 8-9 rebounds, obviously 25+ ppg.... THEN... it would be justifiable... since that would mean he is a more versatile and complete OFFENSIVE player.

right now he doesnt grab too many boards, doesnt play tough defense, and relies heavily on running and poor defenders for him to score... not to mention he doesnt set up his team mates....and he pouts/gives up too, when he isnt effective offensively.... COME ON now... you want 23 Million dollars a year stuck on a player like that????


Zach Randolph atleast grabs 10+ rebounds.... Boozer too...

Just judging by stats and impact... is Stoudemire even that much better than West?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Easy Bosh and Dirk

MVP Dirk? The guy who can score from anywhere on the court and rebounds better?

Bosh has a very similar offensive game, rebounds better, and his position defense compared to Amare's makes STAT look like he is still in high school.

Both of them don't get into nearly as much foul trouble as Amare does on a regular basis, which futher drops his value to a team and considerably weakens his defense.

Both also average more assists.

Your homerism is frustrating because I love Amare's game and you're forcing me to play devils advocate.

Top 10 for sure, but there are 5-6 guys that would fluctuate in every person's opinion that you can't conclude top 8... whatever that is anyway.

Stick to the offense card. You may be able to convince top 3 there.

 

[elindholm]

What other good scoring PF are there?

Are you serious? Nowitzki 25.8, Bosh 22.7, Jamison 21.5, Stoudemire 21.4, Duncan 20.9.

Amare is the best big man scorer not named LeBron in the league.

Nope.

 

[nowagimp]

Which category are you in?

I tend to stick on the players side, especially with a new coach. I think I know what to expect from the players more than whatsavakerr and porter bring to the team. THe players have alot more experience in their NBA jobs than kerr/porter, alot more.

 

[JS22]

My favorite player. Nice spelling of favorite. No my favorite player is Joe Johnson. I think Black Jesus tattoed on amare's neck is funny.

And Amare is a top 5 scorer in the NBA and top 8 talent

Side note... Were you the one spreading those BS "Amare to Chicago is a done deal" rumors over at Real GM? Same username.

 

[nowagimp]

Are you serious? Nowitzki 25.8, Bosh 22.7, Jamison 21.5, Stoudemire 21.4, Duncan 20.9.



Nope.

So matt bonner is a center? Cmon dont buy that ridiculous propaganda that TD is a PF. And jamison scores well for an undermanned terrible team with no other options, and has no inside game. Bosh gets his numbers on a running team, like the one that amare played on last year and had a lebron like 31 PER. Put them in the same system and amare will way outperform bosh. Nobody in the nba thought bosch was better last year. Dirk is the only one that I think is better than amare, if you admit that TD is NOT playing as a PF.

 

[Covert Rain]

Black Jesus, I respect your enthusiasm for Amare but man you have to take the blinders off sometimes to see a player (even your favorite) for who he really is. Not who you hope he is or wish he is. Everything is laid out for you above.

A one dimensional PF is not a super star. It's not like Amare scores 30 PPG and he doesn't play on the other side of the court. As you can see he doesn't really differentiate himself from other scoring PF's in the league and their are guys who score more, just as much (or close) but do more on the other side of the court.

Amare is not a super star and is not a max player. If we get this guy for 12-14 Million per year and surround him with a defensive team, that I am all for keeping him. If not, he should be traded.

 

[dodie53]

imo,
Amare doesn't deserve a max contract.

he's a 12-14mil player

 

[SirStefan32]

If you were a Suns fan, why wouldn't you want a 26 year old athletic forward who can score and is approaching his peak?

OMG, this is like talking to a wall. At least two other posters have explained this to you in this thread. We all WANT Amare. Nobody is saying that we don't want Amare. What we are saying is that if you spend 30% of your payroll on Amare, you don't have enough money to spend on the rest of the roster.

Tim Duncans, Kevin Garnetts, Kobe Bryants, and Dwight Howards of the NBA are worth 30% of your payroll because they are true "superstars" who dominate on offense and defense and don't need a "system" or an all star/MVP point guard to make them dominant.

Amare would be great... at $12-$15 Mil per year. At $20-$24 Mil per year, he would cripple this franchise for the next 6 years.

NBA is a business, and you always have to look at the financial aspect of any deal. The fact that some of us want Stoudemire gone really has nothing to do with Stoudemire. I think he is an outstanding offensive player, an all-star, and I enjoy watching him. However, I recognize the reality that you can't give him 30% of your payroll and expect to have enough money to make an elite team.

I am not even going to go into the whole "Giving over $20 mill to somebody with bad knees is a stupid thing to do" argument, as we all can just look at T-Mac and the Rockets.

 

[elindholm]

So matt bonner is a center? Cmon dont buy that ridiculous propaganda that TD is a PF.

Oh who cares? It makes no difference what position you assign to one particular player. Duncan, Garnett, Al Jefferson, and Nowitzki can all get put in one category or another, depending on how it fits your argument. Stoudemire is a high-scoring big man, but not at the top of the list. That's all.

And jamison scores well for an undermanned terrible team with no other options, and has no inside game.

He has more of a post game than Stoudemire.

Bosh gets his numbers on a running team, like the one that amare played on last year and had a lebron like 31 PER. Put them in the same system and amare will way outperform bosh. Nobody in the nba thought bosch was better last year.

Bosh is in his fourth straight season scoring over 22 ppg, a number Stoudemire has surpassed only once since his microfracture.

 

[Chaplin]

Can someone please explain when a rebound is NOT needed?

 

[SirStefan32]

He has more of a post game than Stoudemire.

To be fair, that's like saying something smells better than vomit-covered crap.

 

[dodie53]

Can someone please explain when a rebound is NOT needed?

when the ball is going out of bounds,
you don't need to exert effort to rebound,
just let the ball go out of bounds.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Can someone please explain when a rebound is NOT needed?

Against the Clippers when you score 140.

 

[PoolBoy]

If Amare was THE GUY on a team, Black Jesus could be right, Amare could average about 28 29 a game, but unfortunately that team would spend all their money on Amare and would have no defense and would not win too many games. I'd rather that not be the suns.

and chaplin, he means when rebounds are needed like actual contested rebounds, not rebounds off missed free throws and other garbage rebounds, AND late game offensive and defensive rebounds. I don't agree with him, I don't think amare gets those, but thats what he means.