Amare looks done

[JustWinBaby]

Yea, Amare adding weight is a dumb move because of his knees,but he is not the reason for the Knicks on court woes. They seriously screwed the pooch (so far) with the Anthony signing. Letting Galinari and Chandler go was an epic fail. You only have to look at how Denver plays like a team without Anthony and how Knicks have sucked since the trade.

The trade seriously affected Amare's game too

Phrazbit........will have none of that. It is all on Amare, don't ya know.

It is hard to complement any of their players after Melo's return. Their record is 2 & 7 since he came back. Baron and JR are the chuckers that everyone thought.

They were the talk of the league prior to the Melo trade last year and were the toast of the town this year when Melo went down with injury. I guess that means nothing in the scope of things.

Coach D will get fired, it almost seems that he hopes it happens soon.

Woodsen will step in and they will get no better but Melo will average over 30 a night.

 

[jagu]

I know the Suns aren't an elite team but they are WAYYYY more fun to watch than the Knicks with all those superstars.

 

[Bufalay]

Amare, with another banner game. 9 points 5 boards. But he probably gained 15 pounds yesterday.

Is he only having good games when Chandler doesn't play?

 

[Phrazbit]

Phrazbit........will have none of that. It is all on Amare, don't ya know.

It is hard to complement any of their players after Melo's return. Their record is 2 & 7 since he came back. Baron and JR are the chuckers that everyone thought.

They were the talk of the league prior to the Melo trade last year and were the toast of the town this year when Melo went down with injury. I guess that means nothing in the scope of things.

Coach D will get fired, it almost seems that he hopes it happens soon.

Woodsen will step in and they will get no better but Melo will average over 30 a night.

The Knicks roster is a disaster, no doubt. But it goes beyond just "Amare and Melo are a bad fit" when bench scrubs come onto the court and the Knicks get drastically better. The guy cant hit his jumper, he cant drive without turning the ball over, and by every measure he is non existent on defense.

And it will be funny when Woodson steps in and Knick fans cant figure out why the offense has now ground to a total halt no matter who is on the court. During his time in Atlanta their offense was excruciating to watch. One bad iso play after another.

 

[Phrazbit]

Is he only having good games when Chandler doesn't play?

That is also a small part of Amare's problem. As much as he claims he doesnt want to play center the stats have demonstrated for a long time that (on offense at least) he is more effective as a center than as a PF. However, the Knicks are certainly better with Chandler than with Amare. Chandler protects the rim, rebounds well and is shooting 60% from the field.

Here is a nice breakdown of Amare's struggles with Chandler as a factor.

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/03/understanding-advanced-stats-amare-stoudemires-declining-fg/

It certainly shows Chandler's presence has effected where Amare gets the ball. But the most damning thing has nothing to do with Chanlder. Amare is shooing 34.9% on post shots, he shot 53% on those same opportunities a year ago.

So, anyone else who feels like calling me a hater, go look at the stats. It aint pretty. Amare is struggling from all ranges with and without Chandler and its Amare himself who kept insisting he should play the 4 over the 5.

The only defense is the supposed weight issue. Which we can "weight" and see on. But one would think he could have resolved that now, 4 months since he found out he was going to be playing the 4. Amare has always had excuses, the weight thing just smells of another one and does not come close to explaining Amare struggles in every aspect of the game.

And, as Ive said over and over, this happens to big guys with a history of leg problems. But many others have been able to stay productive despite their declined athletism because they had things like defense, rebounding and a back to the basket game to lean on. Amare has never had those things, he was never a fundamentally sound player. So to see him enter into such a sudden shocking decline should not be all that shocking when you recall that once he starts losing a step or 2 he has nothing to fall back on.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Knicks roster is a disaster, no doubt. But it goes beyond just "Amare and Melo are a bad fit" when bench scrubs come onto the court and the Knicks get drastically better. The guy cant hit his jumper, he cant drive without turning the ball over, and by every measure he is non existent on defense.

And it will be funny when Woodson steps in and Knick fans cant figure out why the offense has now ground to a total halt no matter who is on the court. During his time in Atlanta their offense was excruciating to watch. One bad iso play after another.

Apparently there isn't a law that says we have to disagree. Who knew? I agree, Woodson is a poor excuse for a head coach. He's even worse than the Van Gundy clan, at least those guys can coach defense.

Steve

 

[Budden]

Sorry but as long as Hakim Warrick continues to breathe the NBA air, Amare will have to settle for something other than worst defender in the league.Steve

That was funny. I laughed out loud a little.

 

[Phrazbit]

Ahem... the prosecution would like to add this into evidence:

20 points, 3 boards, while his team was out rebounded by like 20 and gave up 22 offensive boards, and a -10... the worst +/- on the team.

 

[jagu]

Ahem... the prosecution would like to add this into evidence:

20 points, 3 boards, while his team was out rebounded by like 20 and gave up 22 offensive boards, and a -10... the worst +/- on the team.

That's like what he did against the Lakers in the playoffs when Odom went off on him. He had less points though. I'm glad the Suns aren't stuck with that dead weight contract.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Knicks and Suns are both examples of a big roster mistake some teams make. They are willing to sign too many mid range type players. When the roster was more limited and the roles more well defined, players are more able to perform to their best ability.

Signing JR Smith was pointless. They needed to get rid of a player (likely Melo) rather than add one.

 

[Superbone]

Signing JR Smith was pointless. They needed to get rid of a player (likely Melo) rather than add one.

Agreed. And they already had Novak.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Yep

Amare is done

21 and 9 with great defense and athleticism. If anyone was watching. Held Brand scoreless in the 2nd half. I am sure he will not receive credit for that. It will get twisted somehow.

Maybe that extra 15 to 20 lbs was a factor.

The Knicks are winning despite Melo.

Now he looks done. Talk about not finishing, wow.
T
Woodsen is having great success, good for him.

 

[Phrazbit]

15-20 pounds now? Amare is somehow retroactively getting fatter.

21-9! Good for Amare! However, for 100 million bucks you would hope those stats would be the rule... and not the exception. Unfortunately, that aint the case. Oh, and by the way... Amare had the 2nd worst +/- on the team. It shows how far Amare has sunk that a 21-9 outing is now cause for celebration.

So, under Mike Woodson Amare is averaging: 16.8pts and 8.6 rbs.

WOAH!!! Be still my heart!!! He keeps that up and he will be in contention for an All-NBA team...

Wait, how deep do they go? I'm thinkin he'd be somewhere around "14th All-NBA Team".

 

[cly2tw]

Yep

Amare is done

21 and 9 with great defense and athleticism. If anyone was watching. Held Brand scoreless in the 2nd half. I am sure he will not receive credit for that. It will get twisted somehow.

Maybe that extra 15 to 20 lbs was a factor.

The Knicks are winning despite Melo.

Now he looks done. Talk about not finishing, wow.
T
Woodsen is having great success, good for him.

I believe MDA was his main problem though. All of a sudden, he doesn't suck as much at PnR defense as he has been all his career! If you look at it, aside from half season coming back from the eye surgery, his only coach was MDA. So, either is Woodson a genius at teaching D, or Amare a quick and receptive student at learning it but MDA never knew how and what to teach, or both.

Philly has had one of the best defense in the league this season with all the athletic guys on the roster. Yet, Amare got by his defender at will just like in game 6 of 2010 WCF against the Lakers. Unlike that game, however, he finished strong in the paint. He could have scored 30, had Woodson not decided to not let anybody else but Melo and Lin touch the ball for almost the entire 4th.

I always said, if he stayed healthy and had a fundamentally sound coach like Sloan, he might become as good as Malone even with his reduced athleticism after the knee surgery. Maybe Woodson it is.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I believe MDA was his main problem though. All of a sudden, he doesn't suck as much at PnR defense as he has been all his career! If you look at it, aside from half season coming back from the eye surgery, his only coach was MDA. So, either is Woodson a genius at teaching D, or Amare a quick and receptive student at learning it but MDA never knew how and what to teach, or both.

Philly has had one of the best defense in the league this season with all the athletic guys on the roster. Yet, Amare got by his defender at will just like in game 6 of 2010 WCF against the Lakers. Unlike that game, however, he finished strong in the paint. He could have scored 30, had Woodson not decided to not let anybody else but Melo and Lin touch the ball for almost the entire 4th.

I always said, if he stayed healthy and had a fundamentally sound coach like Sloan, he might become as good as Malone even with his reduced athleticism after the knee surgery. Maybe Woodson it is.

Quite frankly I think most of it is on D'Antoni and I am a huge fan of his.

His biggest strength is probably his biggest fault. He has always protected his players to the press and unfortunately it appears he does not call them out in practice or to their face either. It appears that he shys away from confrontation with any of the players. Amare and every other player needs to have a come to Jesus meeting with the boss every once in a while but Mike does not do that, or so it seems.

Woodsen has called out both Amare and Melo on their effort since he took over for Mike. It seems to be working with Amare. He has played very good defense since Woodsen took the reigns, especially last night. Woodsen has said that he has changed very little of what D'Antoni was doing and repects him a lot. It all has to do with effort according to Woodsen. If Melo ever wakes up the Knicks could be pretty good. If Mike gets another gig he cannot always try to be Mr Nice guy, JMO.

 

[jagu]

I don't get why it's a surprise that the Knicks beat the Sixers. How can the Sixers matchup to Chandler, Amare, and Melo? Even if those three had off nights there is a very low chance that the Sixers could handle them unless someone on their team went off.

I don't even think the Sixers are a playoff team in the Western Conference. Again they are beating up on teams that they should beat..

Portland, Indiana twice, Toronto, and Sixers <--- all these games SHOULD be won by a team with a serious frontline and bench. Wait till they face an elite team which the Knicks should be always compared to.

 

[jbeecham]

Indiana is a good team. They don't have any superstars, but they're can go 10-11 players deep every night without a lot of drop off.

PG: Collison, George Hill
SG: Paul George, Barbosa
SF: Granger, Dahntay Jones
PF: David West, Hansbrough
C: Hibbert, Amundson/Foster

They're also 8 games over .500 right now at 26-18.

They're like the Suns East & that's probably what our record would be if we played the 1st half of the season like we have in the 2nd or if we played in the East.

 

[BC867]

They're like the Suns East & that's probably what our record would be if we played the 1st half of the season like we have in the 2nd or if we played in the East.

And didn't have to play half of our games on the road.

 

[Phrazbit]

Quite frankly I think most of it is on D'Antoni and I am a huge fan of his.

His biggest strength is probably his biggest fault. He has always protected his players to the press and unfortunately it appears he does not call them out in practice or to their face either. It appears that he shys away from confrontation with any of the players. Amare and every other player needs to have a come to Jesus meeting with the boss every once in a while but Mike does not do that, or so it seems.

Woodsen has called out both Amare and Melo on their effort since he took over for Mike. It seems to be working with Amare. He has played very good defense since Woodsen took the reigns, especially last night. Woodsen has said that he has changed very little of what D'Antoni was doing and repects him a lot. It all has to do with effort according to Woodsen. If Melo ever wakes up the Knicks could be pretty good. If Mike gets another gig he cannot always try to be Mr Nice guy, JMO.

This post seems to strongly contradict your earlier claims that Mike D is good at developing players.

 

[JustWinBaby]

This post seems to strongly contradict your earlier claims that Mike D is good at developing players.

Whatever

Amare does NOT look done at this point.

I know that is hard for you to imagine.

 

[Covert Rain]

Whatever

Amare does NOT look done at this point.

I know that is hard for you to imagine.

Amare seems to have rebounded. He still disappointing on the boards with 6 out of the last 7 games having less than 10 rebounds (including a 6, 3 and 5 rebound game). In terms of defense I didn't see the game but have watched about 10 NY games this season and he looked horrible to average in every single one of them but one.

That is the problem with Amare. Good game defensively then disappears for the next few. Same with his rebounding. That's what you get with Amare and the very reason they brought in Chandler.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Amare seems to have rebounded. He still disappointing on the boards with 6 out of the last 7 games having less than 10 rebounds (including a 6, 3 and 5 rebound game). In terms of defense I didn't see the game but have watched about 10 NY games this season and he looked horrible to average in every single one of them but one.

That is the problem with Amare. Good game defensively then disappears for the next few. Same with his rebounding. That's what you get with Amare and the very reason they brought in Chandler.

I only watched about 20 minutes total of this game but I really thought he played the best defense I can remember from him. I don't know how long it will last though because Amare has always been in search of the ESPN highlight and other than blocked shots, their highlights are almost always reserved for the offense. Anyway, he looked quicker and lighter than he has all season. Might be a fluke but we'll see.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Whatever

Amare does NOT look done at this point.

I know that is hard for you to imagine.

I just find it very funny that Amare plays 40+ games of horrible basketball and its not enough evidence to claim he is losing it, but he plays one HALF of inspired ball and he is back baby! And even in that half his team did better when using Jefferies over Amare.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I just find it very funny that Amare plays 40+ games of horrible basketball and its not enough evidence to claim he is losing it, but he plays one HALF of inspired ball and he is back baby! And even in that half his team did better when using Jefferies over Amare.

SOS

Why am I surprised.

He played 40 games overweight. He either planned on playing center or did it to protect the back he injured last year. He made a mistake.

I thought the subject of this thread was. Amare looks done.

Well to most he doesn't LOOK DONE, at this point.

As Steve suggests we will see where he goes from here. That is a sensbile and spot on observation, IMO.

 

[BC867]

SOS

Why am I surprised.

He played 40 games overweight. He either planned on playing center or did it to protect the back he injured last year. He made a mistake.

I thought the subject of this thread was. Amare looks done.

Well to most he doesn't LOOK DONE, at this point.

As Steve suggests we will see where he goes from here. That is a sensbile and spot on observation, IMO.

Justifiably overweight, injured back, bad legs, a risky eye situation.

Inconsistent rebounder, lazy on defense.

No matter how it is candy coated, I am glad we didn't sink money into him.