Amare Ought to be Embarassed

[AzStevenCal]

During their late season run, it seemed like Amare played some defense and rebounding pretty well. You can attribut that to Lpez being in the lineup, but very few quaity bigs have had to play with such "big men" as Voskow and Marion. Marion was used as a wing defender and Amere was under orders to stay out of foul trouble - on a team that couldin't keep people out of the paint.

IMHO, Amare will look more improved next season if he stays with the Suns and Lopez is healthy.

Actually, for much of their late season run Amare was terrific on offense and solid on defense (to include rebounding) and Lopez was NOT on the court. He was sidelined for quite awhile with that back problem and Amare still played great.

Something happened at the end of the season to change that. With 2 games remaining in the season Amare stopped playing defense, stopped rebounding, stopped taking it to the hoop frequently, stopped setting screens and just generally stopped showing effort.

Over the past few weeks, I've suggested several possibilities as to why but in truth, I'm at a loss. All I know is the player that I've watched in these last 17 games is a much less impactful player than the one who dominated from the All-Star game forward.

Steve

 

[Irish]

The last part of the season saw the Suns playing mostly lottery teams. Obviously the Nugget and Jazz games were exceptions, but there is nothing like weak opponents.

I think the size of the opposition in the playoffs has been a problem . Amare is 6-9" and he had to contend with Camby at 7'2" and Aldridge at 6'11" followed by Duncan at a long 7'0" and an ever bigger Laker front line. Amare is a power forward and struggles with guys who are a lot logger and heavier. How many other bigs his size excelled inthe same situation?

 

[elindholm]

Amare is 6-9" and he had to contend with Camby at 7'2" and Aldridge at 6'11" followed by Duncan at a long 7'0"

Okay, I'll bite. Where did you come up with these ridiculous heights? There's no way in hell that Camby has five inches on Stoudemire.

How many other bigs his size excelled inthe same situation?

Not many. On the other hand, how many bigs his size are asking for $20 million per year? Oh, that's right, zero.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The last part of the season saw the Suns playing mostly lottery teams. Obviously the Nugget and Jazz games were exceptions, but there is nothing like weak opponents.

I think the size of the opposition in the playoffs has been a problem . Amare is 6-9" and he had to contend with Camby at 7'2" and Aldridge at 6'11" followed by Duncan at a long 7'0" and an ever bigger Laker front line. Amare is a power forward and struggles with guys who are a lot logger and heavier. How many other bigs his size excelled inthe same situation?

Well, keep in mind that his stats are down quite a bit from the last three postseason runs in addition to being well down from the 2nd half of this season. Also, during that weak schedule stretch we also faced Chicago, Milwaukee, San Antonio, Oklahoma City and Houston in addition to teams such as Minnesota and New Jersey that each have credible bigs.

Lately I've just been commenting on his stats but Amare has failed the eye test for quite awhile now. If you just watch him play and then compare it to his prior efforts the difference is very noticeable. He just isn't as active out there on either end of the court.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

We are in the WCF and have been multiple times with Amare. He has had the same issues with defense and rebounding througout his career. I don't buy that it would mean mediocrity.

he did all of that as a second banana with a second banana contract. You take away Steve's effectiveness as he gets older/he retires and with Amare as the leader of the team, at 20 million, we ain't gonna be squat. Just my opinion.

 

[Covert Rain]

he did all of that as a second banana with a second banana contract. You take away Steve's effectiveness as he gets older/he retires and with Amare as the leader of the team, at 20 million, we ain't gonna be squat. Just my opinion.

That's always a possibility but I think getting a new PG will be easier then getting another big man. Look how many good PG's have been through this organization.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

That's always a possibility but I think getting a new PG will be easier then getting another big man. Look how many good PG's have been through this organization.

There are three superior power forwards in the free agent market this year alone in Dirk, David Lee, and Boozer. PG is the second most important position (and some might argue in today's offensively minded NBA, the most important position) in the league, and there are a dearth of true floor generals. On the other hand, power forward is a position with an excess of talent. Amare does not warrant the premium typically assosciated with big men, as (as other Amare defenders have noted) he does not play well against true big men.

 

[Covert Rain]

There are three superior power forwards in the free agent market this year alone in Dirk, David Lee, and Boozer. PG is the second most important position (and some might argue in today's offensively minded NBA, the most important position) in the league, and there are a dearth of true floor generals. On the other hand, power forward is a position with an excess of talent. Amare does not warrant the premium typically assosciated with big men, as (as other Amare defenders have noted) he does not play well against true big men.

There are only 4 PF's in the entire NBA scoring more then 20. Finding a scoring big man is going to be difficult. For some reason though this franchise has always found a way to get guards in here.

I hope the Suns can pull something off to lesson the sting that will come when Nash retires, Hill is gone and some players leave (possibly Amare).

 

[Irish]

There are three superior power forwards in the free agent market this year alone in Dirk, David Lee, and Boozer. PG is the second most important position (and some might argue in today's offensively minded NBA, the most important position) in the league, and there are a dearth of true floor generals. On the other hand, power forward is a position with an excess of talent. Amare does not warrant the premium typically assosciated with big men, as (as other Amare defenders have noted) he does not play well against true big men.

Take another look at the current salary structure http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/amare-ought-to-be-embarassed-152649-18.html. Now please tell me which guys have MAX contracts.

Realisticly,the Suns could get outbid by a lot of teams. I am most concerned about the Heat because they could be a tough team to stop if they added Amare and he is from Florida.

But the way I read it is tha it is not the starting salary, but the length of the contract that will matter. There is a real risk that Amare will reiinjure his knee and concerns about his knee will keep the bidding down. But it won't give Sarver much breething room because having a guy that forces opponents to double team is a big plus.

I expect Amare will get a contract for upwards of 6 years and $90 million. Big, but far from the highest this summer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I expect Amare will get a contract for upwards of 6 years and $90 million. Big, but far from the highest this summer.

If he were willing to take this deal he'd still be in Phoenix next year. I think he's going to expect the full max from us which is quite a bit more over the life of the deal. Although most of the talk has been about him demanding a max length deal there's no reason to believe he'll settle for anything less than the max in money also.

Our problem is that the temptation to sign him, at whatever cost, with the thought that you could always turn around and trade him in a year or two could easily bury this franchise. With the upcoming CBA negotiations and the anticipated salary restructuring (downwards, of course) it's quite likely that a max contract will become almost unmovable. When you add in his injury risks the concerns increase considerably. There are a few markets/owners that could absorb this kind of deal but I don't think Phoenix/Sarver fits that description.

Steve

 

[Irish]

If he were willing to take this deal he'd still be in Phoenix next year. I think he's going to expect the full max from us which is quite a bit more over the life of the deal. Although most of the talk has been about him demanding a max length deal there's no reason to believe he'll settle for anything less than the max in money also.

Our problem is that the temptation to sign him, at whatever cost, with the thought that you could always turn around and trade him in a year or two could easily bury this franchise. With the upcoming CBA negotiations and the anticipated salary restructuring (downwards, of course) it's quite likely that a max contract will become almost unmovable. When you add in his injury risks the concerns increase considerably. There are a few markets/owners that could absorb this kind of deal but I don't think Phoenix/Sarver fits that description.

Steve

My guess is based on Gambo and Ash's discussion. I suspect there will be opt out provisions going both directions.

JJ left because of not only money, but also he was not happy with the team. By all indications, this is not an effort to escape bad chemistry like JJ and Dice (who took less money) because he was not happy here. Nor is this a case of a guy wanting to join a winner. They are a lot closer to winning it all than any team with the needed cap space.

Clearly Sarver saw the money issue once the trade deadline past. No one can afford to trade for Amare with value (not just expiring contracts or the like). But it has to scary for a banker to make a bet of this size.

 

[hsandhu]

I've done a complete 180. Let him walk.

It is the wisest move. Realistically, this was it for the nash era unless they pull a miracle and sign dirk. So moving into the future it is not smart to be paying amare 20 as your best player. If the suns had no other pieces and they need amare just to stay afloat, ok. But we have some pieces that will develop and in time hopefully we can add to.

 

[eastcoastSUN]

Let Amare walk. Sign Bosh. Let Earl Clark take a sip out of Dragic's 2nd year magic juice.

Problem solved.

 

[joshstmarie]

Let Earl Clark take a sip out of Dragic's 2nd year magic juice.

Problem solved.

 

[elindholm]

It's time to bid Stoudemire farewell. There's no way he will ever be the best player on a championship team, and it's stupid to pay $20 million a year to someone who doesn't have that potential.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've done a complete 180. Let him walk.

It is the wisest move. Realistically, this was it for the nash era unless they pull a miracle and sign dirk. So moving into the future it is not smart to be paying amare 20 as your best player. If the suns had no other pieces and they need amare just to stay afloat, ok. But we have some pieces that will develop and in time hopefully we can add to.

Well, shades of Jason Kidd, I've done a complete 360. I thought we should move him for a few years now mostly out of re-injury concern. However, I liked his approach from the start of this season onward and especially the way he carried the team from the all-star game forward. He won me over and I was all for giving him the max until he quit playing 18 games ago.

Maybe quit is the wrong word. There's always the (slim?) chance that injury or exhaustion have entered the picture but regardless, he has not played with intensity in quite awhile now. There's no doubt in my mind though that he has played his last game in a Phoenix uniform. I wish him well in Miami.

Steve

 

[jagu]

It's time to bid Stoudemire farewell. There's no way he will ever be the best player on a championship team, and it's stupid to pay $20 million a year to someone who doesn't have that potential.

Well said, Amare will not win you a championship.

 

[Makeplays]

Studying Amare's defensive presence during this game 6 you see Amare just sleepwalking as the ball is in the air. He's a hopeless liability. 27 Seconds to go, down by 7 in desperate need of a three, Amara puts the ball on the floor into 3 defenders. Access denied! No kickout, just trying to pad his stats to show the world he showed up.

Sorry for the emotion.

 

[jagu]

Amare had 3 assists in the entire series. To play 6 games, as a starting power forward, and get 3 assists in 6 games. Add that to his embarrasing rebounding total and you have a player that pretty much helped no one but himself in this series. Peace!

 

[Makeplays]

Amare had 3 assists in the entire series. To play 6 games, as a starting power forward, and get 3 assists in 6 games. Add that to his embarrasing rebounding total and you have a player that pretty much helped no one but himself in this series. Peace!

Take 6 more rebounds if he tries as hard as Odom and that's 6 possessions he gives for his team to score. Couple that with the three turnovers and that's 9 scoring ops.

 

[AzStevenCal]

7/7/8/6/4/6/5/3/13/11/8/5/3/6/11/8/4/4.

The (rebounding) numbers speak for themselves.

Steve

 

[Makeplays]

7/7/8/6/4/6/5/3/13/11/8/5/3/6/11/8/4/4.

The (rebounding) numbers speak for themselves.

Steve

Well remember the old saying..."rebounding is all desire"

 

[Errntknght]

The saddest thing about Amare is that he might have developed into the player he thinks he is if he'd have had decent coaching early in his career. Starting under Frank Johnson, who knew zip about coaching, was bad enough but then he had D'Antoni who actively encouraged him to shun defense. On top of that no one ever encouraged him to pass the ball - or designed plays for him in which passing was a significant option. The were like fans, they just wanted to see those dazzling drives he was capable of. They didn't aid and abet the maturation process either, until this year - Gentry gets credit for that since it happened on his watch and I suspect he was the catalyst.

But he is what he is now, regardless of where the fault lies, and that is a player who wants to paid far more than he is worth. I only hope that Steve is right about him having an agreement to go someplace else - failing that he might well wind up striking a deal with Phoenix after testing the FA market and finding all the other GM's paid attention to his woeful performance on the big stage.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Someone will give Amare a max level contract, mark my words on it. Once the chips with LeBron, Wade and Bosh fall, one of the teams who lost out on their services will want to do something... ANYTHING to prove they're a player in free agency, thus they'll overspend for Stoudemire's services.

 

[Sunburn]

Someone will give Amare a max level contract, mark my words on it. Once the chips with LeBron, Wade and Bosh fall, one of the teams who lost out on their services will want to do something... ANYTHING to prove they're a player in free agency, thus they'll overspend for Stoudemire's services.

Good. Time to part ways. I want a defensive oriented 4.