Amare Stoudemire?

[STAT1]

Hey guys Im a frequent view to the message board and this is my first post so go easy on me . I was listening to XTRA Sports 910 and I heard of a rumor that Phoenix and Memphis were involved in talks in swapping their two big men. I wanted to call in but I couldnt get through. They reported that Memphis would send Pau Gasol, Mike MIller, Hakim Warrick, and Damon Stoudamire to Phoenix for ATL's 1st rounder, Amare, Boris, and Marcus. I dont know if the money even works and if their is any truth to those rumors so please dont flame. Im kindof iffy on this one. I really love Amare and dont wanna give him up, but he obviously isnt too fond of being in Phoenix playing for a title contendor and Pau is unhappy in Memphis. PLus Gasol is one of the best low post scorers in the leauge if not the best, Mike Miller may be the best shooter in the leauge, Damon can be a good backup, and Hakim Warrick can score at will, although his defense isnt up to par. We get alot of offense back, but we still will be weak inside. When I heard their was a possibility in a sawap between Pau and Amare straight up and I didnt like it, but this kinda jumps out on me, but I hope it doesn't and doubt this will happen...thoughts?

 

[green machine]

Wow, I don't like the idea of getting rid of Amare, but that the Grizz would take both of the really bad contracts off the Suns' hands may leave them with a decent chance to reload with a high priced free agent soon.

 

[Sovereignz]

I really love Miller and Warrick, I think they're the kind of pieces this team really needs.

Gasol has some incredible passing skills. He's definitely underrated, and a world champion. But he ain't Amare. You're never going to see Pau Gasol go down Tim Duncan's throat for 40 points. He's been a pretty middling rebounder his entire career, so he's not going to help us there. I haven't watched him enough to know how good of a defender he is, but I imagine having to deal with the penetration our guards give up and being the only big man on a team of midgets... well, even if he IS a good defender, he ain't going to look like it playing here.

Dude also hasn't even won a game in the playoffs, he's been swept 3 times. I know it's a team game and all, but yikes.. makes T-Mac look like Bill Russell.

I don't think it'd make us better, but we wouldn't really be worse either. I'd HATE to think of playing against Amare 4 times every year for the next 10 or so, but I dunno.. maybe this team needs something to shake (wake) it up.

 

[dodie53]

welcome to ASFN stat1.

 

[dodie53]

would Memphis settle for Marion instead?

 

[cly2tw]

Wow, I don't like the idea of getting rid of Amare, but that the Grizz would take both of the really bad contracts off the Suns' hands may leave them with a decent chance to reload with a high priced free agent soon.

Well, they would sure have a chance to sign another Diaw and Banks with their departure.

Who could tell me, how the Suns are gonna score any points without Amare in a series against Spurs? Is Gasol able to catch those contested tough passes and convert them into and1 the way Amare did? What else would be left with this trade?

 

[green machine]

Well, they would sure have a chance to sign another Diaw and Banks with their departure.

Who could tell me, how the Suns are gonna score any points without Amare in a series against Spurs? Is Gasol able to catch those contested tough passes and convert them into and1 the way Amare did? What else would be left with this trade?

You do a trade like this if you think the current team has no chance to win a title. It's essentially blowing it up and giving you a the potential of cap space to make some big moves in the future.

 

[devilalum]

You do a trade like this if you think the current team has no chance to win a title. It's essentially blowing it up and giving you a the potential of cap space to make some big moves in the future.

They better ride this team as far as possible because the Suns have NO draft picks to rebuild with.

 

[STAT1]

Pau Gasol is actually a really good player. He has amazing hands for a big man and passes out of the double team extremely well. He is only like 27 and is just entering his prime, he is extremely talented. He isnt a great defender, but he can block shots. I don't think Memphis will move him, they are extremely talented and all they were lacking was a solid peremter defender, and it appers they found that in Bobby Jones. Memphis can play with anyone in the leauge but cant seem to finish games, they have like 11 losses of 3 points or less, and lost by 4 against Boston, and just recently lost in OT by 7 to Cleveland. They also take care of the bad teams just demollished Seattle 124-100. They seem like the Baby Suns. I really miss Iavaroni. It gives us alot more depth and them another solid pick and Amare probably benefits more in their system then he does here. Their young and will defitnetly be competing for a Western Conference Championship here within the next couple eyars with a SOLID young nucleus in Conley, Navarro, Lowry, Hakim, Darko(I dont know if we should call him a bust yet, he is only 22 and Iavaroni is one of the best big man coaches in the leauge), Pau, and young superstar in the making Rudy Gay. We may even be able to pry away Juan Carlos Navarro since he is besties with Pau, and is making near 500K this year. Navarro is an animal and I bet DT would love him.


This is one of those things that I hope doesnt happen, but I wouldnt commit suicide if it were to. I like the team how it is and want to keep it intact, maybe make a few minor tweaks and adjustments before the deadline to make a run at the title.


GO SUNS!!

 

[cly2tw]

You do a trade like this if you think the current team has no chance to win a title. It's essentially blowing it up and giving you a the potential of cap space to make some big moves in the future.

So, it's about rebuilding. I get it now. So, who'd be your franchise player in the process? Oh wait, we just traded him away to make room for some journeymen.

 

[green machine]

So, it's about rebuilding. I get it now. So, who'd be your franchise player in the process? Oh wait, we just traded him away to make room for some journeymen.

Gasol isn't awful, and the idea is to add a piece to him, Barbosa, Miller, whoever is left, via free agency. It has been done before, and there could be an outstanding group of FA's in the next couple years.

Not saying I'd do the trade, in fact, I'm against trading Amare. But I could see why a deal like this one would be intriguing.

 

[STAT1]

welcome to ASFN stat1.

Thanks for the warm welcome dodie53, you guys know a lot about basketball, and I have always enjoyed reading all of your threads.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

Shockingly, this actually works under the cap according to RealGM.

I don't hate this trade. It rids the Suns of their two worst contracts, gives them a solid, solid big man in Pau Gasol, and two guys who were made for the Suns, Miller and Warrick. Stoudamire (as in Mighty Mouse) would also be a nice veteran backup for Nash. I obviously hate to give up on Amare, especially for another big man who doesn't play much D, but if things need to be shaken up, this may be the best deal out there.

Nash/Stoudamire
Bell/Barbosa/Strawberry
Hill/Miller/Tucker
Marion/Warrick
Gasol/Skinner/Marks

That's a pretty solid team, though still pretty small up front.

 

[STAT1]

Gasol is a World MVP during the FIBA games in 2006. He is on a hot streak this new year averaging somehting like 25 a game, 12 reb, 6 ast, and 2 blks. Those arnt bad numbers.

 

[jandaman]

I would do that in a heart beat.

Over here, or any Suns forums.. I have seen a lot of Suns fans basically treasure Stoudemire... why not?.. he is a stud. But outside of scoring and your highlight block shots, he isnt going to get much better everywhere else, he is over valued a lot. Quiet frankly, I dont think we will see the pre-surgery Amare ever, he will still be a 25ppg 9rpg guy... but watching his game, he will rely more and more on his jumpshots rather than going inside... as he has shown these days.

Pau Gasol is a 20/10/2.5 guy, Miller is the dead eye shooter Suns can definitely use to his full capabilities. Warrick is another potential finisher who will thrive with the system.
Stoudamire is the play making back up Suns need badly.


Amare to be fully effective.. needs a new coach and system. With the Suns system, he is not going to be the no.1 player, as going through him all the time is detrimental to the offense of the team. Not with Nash and D'Antoni anyways.... and by the time the Suns change their style, Amare will most likely be "softer" in terms of his game.... he really is cutting down on attacking the ring.


Suns line-up looks deep in every position and are more potent offense wise, and have 2 more legit big men coming in.

C: Gasol/Skinner/Marks
PF: Marion/Warrick
SF: Hill/Miller/Tucker
SG: Bell/Barbosa
PG: Nash/Stoudamire/Strawberry

Gasol/Skinner/Warrick/Marks/Marion rotate in the PF/C positions
Marion/Hill/Miller/Bell/Tucker rotate in the SF position
Miller/Bell/Barbosa/Tucker/Strawberry rotate in the SG position
Nash/Barbosa/Strawberry rotate in the PG position

Thats deep, in terms of having talented veterans as backup in the back courts. And good versatile players in the front court.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I seriously worry about Pau Gasol fitting into a Phoenix style run and gun system. He has a phenomenal low post/back-to-the-basket game, and he's perfectly suited to more of a trot and post half court game. You add in that phenomenal passing, and we could form a deadly half court team with Gasol as the focus, surrounding him with outside shooters like Miller, Bell, and Nash.

This could help to prolong Nash's productivity, as he'd assume a more passive role, coming off screens, utlizing his shooting more, and getting away from him dominating the ball. Don't get me wrong, I love Nash, but we're asking for trouble if we ask a point guard in the twilight of his career to continue taking the kind of abuse that our system requires.

That said, this trade would be best suited for the off season as it requires an entirely different coaching staff and team outlook. No way could we ask the team to change their philosophy so dramatically midseason. Hate it or love it, we've got the current team for the remainder of the season most likely. If we don't win it all, a 360 shift is definitely in order, and it seems an almost certainty. This would be a great deal to facilitate that shift.

 

[cly2tw]

It's so sad that everybody seems to take it for granted that Nash/Amare combo gets a lot of done. Amare with a little room can score at will, and Nash is among the few that could find that little room even though no longer creating it at ease like before. On the other hand, nobody catches the passes by Nash and uses that little room to the fullest like Amare does.

My prediction is, if we trade Amare, we'll have no chance at the title for the remaining years of Nash' s career on the Suns. Period.

I believe our only hope is to give Amare some chance to work on other less developed aspects of the game and try to make him equal partner to Nash, like Malone to Stockton. Anyone saw the last low post move Amare scored an and1 with on Jefferson? He is gifted enough to do those things naturally, unlike Dwight Howard who still looks very much just muscling through. But if you are always under pressure and criticism for perfecting it right there, otherwise the team must go to the more efficient Nash-dribbling type of offense, or to LB drives, then you tend to rush to force things. As a result of lack of opportunity and rushing at those little chances, people get turned off on Amare's low post moves. Frustration ensues and the franchise is gonna lose the only chance for title by trading him, as they see forced to. Sad. Just sad!

 

[scXfreakX]

I really hope this is a load of cr*p. If this is true and being talked about, then I am worried. For this team to give up Amare, you have to get a tremendous big guy back(besides Pau), or some other star player. If not, then forget it. Amare does so much for this club, and is big in the playoffs. Trading him might be the stupidest thing we could ever do.

 

[cly2tw]

From phxnets I found this post which reflects exact the same sentiment I have about the situation of the Suns, Amare, and coach. Since that site doesn't allow me to register, I'd just like to share it with this board.


EDC
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 421

Re: Stoudemire/Barbosa argument....

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I think it comes down to a matter of perceived respect. Amare wants to be the man. It isn't like we have anyone else stepping up to do that job. The Spurs know Duncan is the man. When things aren't going well they move it around and get him touches. That sort of thing doesn't happen on the Suns. When the game is getting down to the wire we end up with a Nash and Amare pick and roll. Good teams have learned how to cover this play. Throwing it down to Duncan or letting Kobe isolate is something that is unstoppable.

Now is Amare at this level? No. I do think he could reach it though. He won't if we don't trust him to learn and give him the opportunity to become the man. Instead we are satisfied to let someone like Barbosa drive in the last minute of games and throw up wild layup attempts. You put Amare on almost any other team and he becomes the man. The guy the team goes to. Amare is the only person on our team that can be that sort of star. Nash can not do that on his own. Marion definitely can't. So why does the coach refuse to harness and shape Amare into that beast?

It is a pity. The person that could carry us to a championship might be too old by the time this team realizes what they should have been doing these past few years. Nash should be encouraging this transition as it would only increase his time in the league. Instead we have to worry about making sure everyone gets enough playing time and we share the ball. It should be about building a team to win a championship.
__________________
Let's Go Suns!

FEED THE BEAST!

 

[Sundance]

Both D'antonis probably feel the rope tightening around their neck. They probably see it as either themselves or Amare. Looking at it that way, with their jobs on the line, I'm putting some stock in these Amare trade rumors. I could definitely see the D'antonis pushing for it, with Kerr being the hold out.

If they're set on trading Amare, I'm down with this trade. Miller, Damon, Warrick, and Barbosa coming of the bench? How sweet would that be! That bench would f'ing kill. And Gasol's statistical production is comparable to Amare's; plus, they both make nearly the exact same money over the next 4 years, with Amare having a player option to opt out while Gasol doesn't.

We need a legit bench. This gives us a legit bench. Guys D'antoni will play. Guys that can kill beyond the arc in his system.

The season so far has been pretty doom and gloom. The enthusiasm of the Memphis players, coming from a moribund team to a team guaranteed to make the playoffs, is just what the Suns could use right about now.

 

[pokerface]

Who knows how long Amare knee(s) will hold out...anymore bad news on that and his value will go down the toilet for good.


Far as Amare being a Spurs killer...that has not seemed to help the Suns beat them in a series.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Three things:

A) Gasol is the antithesis of suns basketball; Im not saying he sucks, im saying our run and gun will now be trot and post.

2) The trade rumor needs to be put into context. Just like many of us learned last summer, reporters and broadcasters have a wonderful ability of taking a small legit rumor and piggybacking their own theories onto it without fabricating new evidence.

D) Trading Amare could be the most devastating trade ever made for this franchise. Everyone knows his abilities, but we dont know his potential yet. If the main reason Amare is coming up in talks is because he doesnt get the touches he deserves then I am ready to boot the Dantonis to the curb- They'll coddle barbosa when he takes more shots than he should but bench Amare for the last minutes of a game because he can guarantee points.

 

[jlove]

If the Suns decide they need to trade Amare, then the proposed deal of Amare/Diaw/Banks/Atl 1st for Gasol/Miller/Warrick/Stoudamire is pretty damn good. However, I think we could do better and help another team out as well. I was tinkering around and found 2 other trade partners that we could possibly add into the deal to make it a 3-way.

3-way option #1:
Memphis gets:
Banks
Diaw
Nocioni
Wallace
Atl 2008 1st round pick via Phoenix
Chicago 2008 1st round pick

Chicago gets:
Warrick
Swift
Miller
Amare

Phoenix gets:
Gasol
Stoudamire
Deng
Sefalosha
Noah


3-way option #2:
Grizzlies get:
Amare
Banks
Szerbiak (1 year shorter than Diaw's deal)
Atl 08 1st via Suns

Sonics get:
Gasol
Diaw
Warrick

Suns get:
Stoudamire
Wilcox
Collison
Miller

I personally like either 3-way better.

Option #1 get Memphis 2 skilled bigmen with Diaw and Nocioni plus they get a defensive big in the middle with Wallace. Chicago gets a beast in the middle with Amare and another dead eye 3pt marksman in Miller and 2 serviceable bigs. The Suns get a lot of depth and youth with Deng, Sefalosha and Noah. They can help the Suns long-term with the possible departure of Marion next summer and give the Suns more maneuverability in skilled positions and they get Gasol to help anchor the middle defensively and rebounding.

Option #2 get Memphis basically the same as the 2-way but with one year shorter contract in Szerbiak. Seattle gets a skilled veteran bigman to help collapse the inside for Durant and Green. The Suns get a dead eye 3pt shooter, a more than adequate back-up for Nash and 2 skilled but young rebounding big men. Wilcox is a baby Amare. He's not as defensive as Amare, but with Collison or Marion next to him he's fine. Collison can help spread the floor on the pick and pop with Nash.

 

[BC867]

... being the only big man on a team of midgets... well, even if he IS a good defender, he ain't going to look like it playing here.

That's the key to our whole situation. Whether our Center is Amare Stoudemire or Pau Gasol, if he is the only big man in the lineup, he's going to be tentative on defense or be in foul trouble constantly.

He's going to be physically worn down. And that's going to affect his game on offense. And all of that is going to affect the energy level of the rest of the team. ('Sound familiar?]

Putting air in a tire with a slow leak doesn't solve the problem for the long haul. Especially if the driver doesn't know how to use the vehicle properly.

 

[Folster]

Who knows how long Amare knee(s) will hold out...anymore bad news on that and his value will go down the toilet for good.


Far as Amare being a Spurs killer...that has not seemed to help the Suns beat them in a series.

Agreed. All of us were willing to trade Amare for a bag of chips when he had his third knee surgery this past offseason. It's tough because he's playing well right now, but I don't think he will hold up for the length of his contract. I'd be willing to bet that he is going to need micro fracture on his other knee in the next couple years. His value is extremely high right now and if the Suns brass(along with doctors) feel that the knees are going to be a continual problem then I will support the right trade. We don't need to be stuck with a Kenyon Martin. The proposed trade also lets the Suns out of Diaw and Banks mistakes.