Anderson to start Saturday!

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
92,170
Reaction score
70,376
You missed the point cheese DA had a temendous amount of help putting up mediocre numbers with stud WR's catching some tough balls and making huge plays.

dude's got more talent here than he had in Cleveland and NONE of those guys ever have been studs before or since that year.

He has SUCKED HIS WHOLE CAREER go look it up if you need too. Geesh they didn't want the guy hell NO ONE did thats how we got him to be a backup. We don't have deep threats why the hell would anyone want to keep a guy whose only upside is he can throw a deep ball....who is he going to throw it too?

Fitz who's speciality is the deep ball... Breaston who's got great speed... Williams who's a pure burner? Are you kidding me?

Last I checked we don't go deep often for a reason!

yeah, that was because Warner elbow was hurt last season. the previous year, we threw the ball downfield a ton.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,642
Reaction score
4,742
I think Skelton is the guy, but DA will have his shot. That said, I can still see ML the starter, but that is highly, highly unlikely imo. The writing was on the wall, it just added another few lines to it. It still hasn't come into official focus, so we'll have to wait and see. It's like the tombstone from Back to the Future III.

I don't think Max Hall would make it through waivers. I believe they value Skelton more and can't risk letting either one get away. But view both as a good possible way to the future. Whoever isn't, is future trade bait, and injury insurance. Thus I think one of the two vets is cut. If Hall hadn't played so well, perhaps our hand wouldn't of been forced. But I think it was. Even the announcers commented. Which ofc might turn out to mean nothing.

With no salary cap, this is also the best time to dump players. I wouldn't even be surprised to see Albert Haynesworth cut, but I still think he has one more year there, barring a major turnaround there.

I also believe that to better understand our team, regardless of who starts at QB, switching them around let's our coaches evaluate all positions better.

It does send a message to ML. His window is small but is still there. If he mopes, or is unresponsive, he probably isn't mentally strong enough, which has been a concern imo. We need a QB that is mentally ready Week 1 period.

If he bombs against 3rd tier defenders, imo he's gone.

If DA doesn't take the reigns, I wouldn't doubt the rooks getting a shot. But I can see DA not do well, and STILL be ahead of ML.

But maybe ML starts preseason week 4, and fails to impress again, which imo is the most likely scenario.

I don't think it will happen, but imo if it did, whiz would have both lit a fire, been able to see if it's still there, and set him up to succeed to potentially start positive momentum and get him out of a funk. He might get a potential rhythm going against backups, going into the preseason finale with Fitz in there and take off. Put him in the best possible chance to succeed. If he still fails.....

ML will either succeed or fail. Decision 2010 NFL style. This is the moment in his career. When people look back at what was the decision that stamped that label, it's most likely whatever happens in the next ~week. He's had enough time, the mold of the stamp has already been made. He either needs to produce in this show me league (what you've done lately), or doesn't. Rubber needs to meet road. If it doesn't his butt gets branded. If he does, perhaps the stamp mold changes. But make no mistake it's sitting there, and the fire is being stoked.

I think resolving this will be the key to the season. There is no sense starting ML (for the year) if he ain't the guy. Now we don't have to likely do this DURING the season, but PRESEASON. Much better for a change if you see it coming. Holding on too long to the obvious and then switching in the season rather than preseason WOULD be a reason to blame whiz. I think this decision was shrewd, and reiterates my faith that things have changed around here. I don't see us a team that if we have a bad season this year, we're a team that's toast.

While others see this as a start of something, I see it as a long continuation. I think ML is the reason we have 3 new QB's on this roster...err 2 additional ones besides the opening from Warner. Talk about Whitehurst, the trade for skelton. We picked guys, and I think they are pleasantly surprised in Hall. It was probably always ML against ML, but now we can say that AND say we can keep Max Hall if we get rid of him. Or DA. But I think ML is the one caught without a chair when the music stops.

But that only happens if DA doesn't take the reigns. He may not. But he's in the lead now imo. He may do enough to hold onto it, even if he doesn't play particularly well. Stats aren't everything. Football isn't numbers. (except wins) They want to see an NFL QB playing. You determine these things with your eyes, with what you can hear, and what you can feel when you close your eyes and take everything into account. There are not stats for this. No numbers or system of recognizing numbers or assigning patterns will ever show this.

If they keep DA, then they are projecting DA having a different fate, or potential one, and that potential is greater than the potential of ML in their heads. That his mistakes are coach able. Or better than the veteran alternative.

DA is HERE, not in CLE. Our coaches, our system, our talent surrounding him. More years, new system, etc. Doesn't mean he succeeds. Lord knows we'd see 50 complete misses this season out of him, most likely. But if it clicks, he's got the tools to get it done. Tools ML just doesn't have any room to spare in. The body language for me is key. The mental slowness I see out there.

I still wouldn't rule out Skelton starting by year's end. Perhaps even Hall. If Whiz thinks either are the best after the preseason games, I actually wouldn't be surprised to see one of the rooks starting the season. Unlike most rooks, these rooks seem mentally capable and quick. I'm a firm believer that those rookies tend to end up better when thrown to the fire (and generally turn out to be better NFL players in the long run). Plus with either ML or DA as a vet we'll be sitting pretty good.

Plus there will be other teams' cuts, so who knows. Overall I would say odds are DA starts the season, and either takes off, plays mediocre, or poorly enough that Skelton will get a chance down the stretch. I don't see DA starter in 2011 (if no lockout or economic collapse). But hey if he lights it up, you never know. This is HIS change of scenery.

I also think whis and the front office have been jockeying around for this possibility for awhile. It isn't his pick, it isn't his style of presumed QB, and right now ML in reality has two preseason games to fight for his NFL life.

He'll get another shot somewhere else, but Captain Checkdown is a name like a roach motel where once that's checked in, it doesn't check out. That's going to go viral amongst NFL players. They're all going to hear about that. (plus it's said about ML, they've all HEARD of him, so it's not like a player remembering something said about some no-name)

He'll be facing that every game forward from now on. (We all know how to beat it, throw deep, but he would have to do it, and do it consistently to break such a moniker). If he hasn't shown the ability to do it consistently without having one side stacked, I doubt it will happen. Plus this could lead to more 8 man fronts and that would be negatively synergistic for our run game.

Even at another place, the writing is on the wall. He could succeed, but I'd really doubt it. He'll have a shot though.

The thing that also has been sticking out like a pink elephant is the almost joke status ML is talked about. It's not just what they are saying, it's HOW they are saying it. I think the talking heads think he is a joke. Right or wrong, but they all see that just about, and if it is in line with what our coaches think, see ya. Normally when they are playing devil's advocate they say one way or the other, but it really seems to me they have honestly made up their minds about ML. Right or wrong, it's just another notch against ML. So after a suite of measures doesn't point you a certain way, but are all CONFIRMING your suspicions, about ML, you pull the trigger. Or shake things up, to give the guy another shot, in another way, but also ready the team for a change. That's GOOD leadership, not bad. So if true, it would also be a confirmation of the change in our front office.

Again, I could see ML starting (doubt it, and don't want it, but he has had a shot, and still has one no matter what anyone says), but feel DA is opening day starter, with rooks possibility anywhere from week 1-17 if DA falters, which he may or may not. If he doesn't grow or use our weapons, then probably, if he has in his new scenery, then he probably won't falter. How far along this continuum determines how fast the future comes. Best QB will play, and it's probably not ML. I don't think he is. We'll see. No matter what whiz will keep searching until he finds one.

I'm sure our division rivals are licking their chops. I wouldn't be so sure. I think we did what we needed to in order to have a BETTER shot this year. So if anything, our rivals lost the opportunity to catch us with our pants down...ha ha. We're moving forward now, even though it's just the churn phase.

So for all the QB's on the cards roster I say Carpe Diem. You could win the Superbowl this year. (or be mediocre)
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,513
Reaction score
7,785
I think DA stinks but I keep reading by some that he has proven to suck in this league. That is true but he has also proven to be a pro bowl QB and has had more success than any other QB on our roster. You can't just look at the bad and not give him credit for the good. DA is going to beat out Leinart and put him on the same career path, and comparable talent, Brady Quinn.

I think Leinart and Quinn are similar. they both seem to have the tools and pedigree to succeed but, for some reason are missing the "it" factor. It's all speculation but they don't seem to have that take charge, commanding presence that the good QB's have. Look at Peyton Manning, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, and Brady. There's no question they are the un-disputed leaders on their team. I said earlier this pre-seasn that all the camp reports had leadership quotes and roles coming from the defensive side of the ball from guys like DD and AW. We barely, if ever, maybe a blurb from Fitz every now and then, heard any type of leadership coming from the offensive side of the ball.
 

Dayman

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Posts
6,235
Reaction score
8,259
Location
Portland, Oregon
I think DA stinks but I keep reading by some that he has proven to suck in this league. That is true but he has also proven to be a pro bowl QB and has had more success than any other QB on our roster. You can't just look at the bad and not give him credit for the good. DA is going to beat out Leinart and put him on the same career path, and comparable talent, Brady Quinn.

About that infamous Pro Bowl season...

DA had a passer rating of 82.5, good for 17th in the league. His 19 interceptions were 1 off the league high, and his 56.5 comp. percentage ranked 28th.

But that's not all. The Browns had an easy path to the playoffs at the end of that year. Then this happened.

Like one of Derek Anderson's wind-blown passes, the chance to clinch a playoff spot slipped right through the Cleveland Browns' hands.

Anderson threw four interceptions Sunday, two of them setting up rapid-fire touchdowns in a 19-14 victory by the Cincinnati Bengals that left the upstart Browns scrambling for a playoff spot instead of celebrating one.

Cleveland (9-6) could have clinched with a victory over the down-and-out Bengals (6-9), who had nothing more than pride on the line and several starters out with injuries. The Browns acted more like the team playing it out.

Anderson's interceptions on consecutive plays helped the Bengals score two touchdowns in a 39-second span late in the first half, putting them up 19-0. He also had a deflected pass intercepted in the end zone, and another picked off inside the 20.
Anderson made the Pro Bowl that year with some questionable stats, but during the biggest game of his team's season, he choked mightily.
 

JC_AZ

JC_AZ
Joined
Jun 7, 2002
Posts
1,593
Reaction score
0
Location
Mesa
Okay... simply put... WE ARE SCREWED...should we just talk about the 2011 draft now?
 

mrbyte

Be careful what you wish for.
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Posts
649
Reaction score
18
Location
Coventry, England
Okay... simply put... WE ARE SCREWED...should we just talk about the 2011 draft now?


god i hope you are wrong this has ramifications to other on the team as well, can you see a top WR wanting to stop with a team that can't get the ball to him consistantly?

if we are done this year then we are rebuild next...

'rebuild'=done next year as well
 

CaptTurbo

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 5, 2003
Posts
16,782
Reaction score
5
Location
Pennsylvania
This only works if Whiz took Matt aside and said "You're my starting QB dont sweat it". Else mentally this will all go to hell for Matt and will throw 4 INT's week 1 if he starts.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
If Warner had played this season, the Cardinals would have had more time to find a replacement. Instead, coach Ken Whisenhunt found himself with what some might view as a dilemma: a choice between two equally bad alternatives in Matt Leinart and Derek Anderson.

From Somers article. If that doesn't give you warm feeling about the 2010 season nothing will.

:(
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,513
Reaction score
7,785
About that infamous Pro Bowl season...

DA had a passer rating of 82.5, good for 17th in the league. His 19 interceptions were 1 off the league high, and his 56.5 comp. percentage ranked 28th.

But that's not all. The Browns had an easy path to the playoffs at the end of that year. Then this happened.

Anderson made the Pro Bowl that year with some questionable stats, but during the biggest game of his team's season, he choked mightily.
I said that I thought DA stinks but he still has done more than anyone currently on the Cards roster.
 

Crazy Canuck

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
10,077
Reaction score
0
Jusat heard from the horses mouth..for what it's worth. Matt is not his guy. This is not a test,,not a surprise to those in charge. If Anderson does well expect the Cards to trade Matt if they can. Whiz prefers DA!

GBR
40

The "horses mouth" is either Whiz or Graves, NO ONE ELSE!

Whiz said, he's merely flipping the starting order from last week; that there is no change in the depth chart, and unlike others, he's does not treat game three of the pre-season as a dress rehearsal.

I heard no more than a week or so ago... Whiz say that he was pleased with Matt's preparation in the off season; in camp; his growing maturity, etc., etc.

So now... Whiz is either a liar... or was part of a management team that truly screwed up the off season at the most important position.

And if Matt is out of the team's plans there is very little point in showcasing a guy who would, by virtue of this demotion. have very little trade value.

These important snaps should be used to decide the team's no. 2 QB.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,159
Reaction score
21,467
Location
South Bay
The "horses mouth" is either Whiz or Graves, NO ONE ELSE!

Whiz said, he's merely flipping the starting order from last week; that there is no change in the depth chart, and unlike others, he's does not treat game three of the pre-season as a dress rehearsal.

I heard no more than a week or so ago... Whiz say that he was pleased with Matt's preparation in the off season; in camp; his growing maturity, etc., etc.

So now... Whiz is either a liar... or was part of a management team that truly screwed up the off season at the most important position.

And if Matt is out of the team's plans there is very little point in showcasing a guy who would, by virtue of this demotion. have very little trade value.

These important snaps should be used to decide the team's no. 2 QB.

Damn...and all these years I thought Lombardi, Florio, Schefter, Chris Carter, and Jaimie Dukes were the "horses' mouths"

;)
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
23 pages on this thread must be some kind of new record.

I guess I'll chime in too (what the hell, there's nothing to do these days now that the baseball Cardinals are choking their way out of the pennant race).

There are two scenarios (with other subsets) playing out here.

1. What Wiz says.

2. What Wiz means.

He's saying that it's still an open competition and he wants to see what he's really got in both of these guys (& he can only do this by giving Anderson equal starting reps). He's also expressed frustration with the offense (especially its inability to move the chains) but was careful to hold both QB's accountable for the ineffectiveness.

But his past MO has been to (a) always keep his options open and (b)be willing to pull the trigger on any personnel move he feels will best help his team win (even if it means benching his rookie superstar in favor of an aging veteran playing out his final years).

So what's he gonna do? (I don't have a clue). My best guess is that he's declaring the current QB competition "even and open" (a change from "It's Matt's job to lose"). This accomplishes two objectives: (1)it keeps Wiz's options open for as long as possible and (2) sends a not-unsubtle message to the team that he's not a happy camper and that there are consequences.

Where the subsets play out have to do with whether we keep both Hall and Skelton, where they fit into things and how do we stash one or both of them. These plus the outside possibility that the coaches and FO really do want to dump Leinart and - even at this late date - are looking to bring in a qualified veteran - either by FA pickup or trade.

Thing of it is, though - we can keep running through the scenarios and driving ourselves nuts. Or we can see how things unfold - in Chicago and later -and then we'll know.

Meanwhile, I'm guessing that collective energy from all the passionate posts on this thread could light up the entire city of Phoenix for at least a year.
 
Last edited:

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
810
Location
Bakersfield, CA
I've actually been impressed at times with Leinart this preseason. There have been a couple of throws where he is getting crushed while throwing the ball because of consistently bad blocking but he completed the passes.

I've also seen it posted by some that Whis wants a gunslinger and a QB who can throw the deep ball. ??? Are we talking about the same coach?

What Leinart did vs. Tennessee in his only start last year and what he's done this preseason are exactly what Whis wants from him right now IMO. He has been very accurate, protected the ball and not hurt the team.

I mean, this is exactly what Whis & Haley were trying to get out of Warner not too long ago.

I agree that the offense hasn't looked dazzling with Leinart in the lineup but it's important to note that the "offense" hasn't looked good. Not just Leinart. The running game, if you can call it that, has been a negative factor for Leinart in his limited playing time, the pass protection has been suspect at best and there has been a huge shift in personnel from last year.

This is all just 2008 preseason all over again. Matt is the starter and Whis is using the preseason to tinker and test. It is very aggravating as a fan to watch his style of preseason but he is one of the few coaches who seems to use the preseason as it is intended. He actually uses it to test and evaluate players. He is not interested in implementing schemes and "winning" exhibition games.

And he has certainly earned the right to be called a fair coach so if Leinart was really on the bubble or there was anything he really needed to prove in preseason, Whis would not be handcuffing him and limiting his playing time. He knows what he has in Matt and I think DA has been playing himself out of a backup job.

Leinart is the one who has been accurate with the ball and protected it. That is exactly what Whis wants. Long, sustained drives and no turnovers. DA is the one who has been inaccurate with the ball, had fumbles and interceptions. Where has this theory that Whis wants an inaccurate, inconsistent QB who turns the ball over come from?

The media is eating all of this up because Brett Favre is back so that story is dead. TO is signed and looking good in Cincinnati so there's no story there. It's the dog days of summer and they desperately need a good QB controversy to talk about. But anyone who has watched the last few years knows that Whis is unconventional to say the least and if he isn't playing Leinart very much, there's a good chance that he's made his decision about him already.
 

nashman

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
10,991
Reaction score
8,180
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
That is what I want to believe as well moklerman. I just can't believe that KW would want truly to start a proven loser like DA. Hopefully Leinart has already proven himself to the coach and this is just preseason shenanigans by our coach!
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,997
Reaction score
5,249
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
John Clayton on the Doug & Wolf show this morning (Friday) said everybody is making too big of a deal of this. He said this is typical Whisenhunt having competition and seeing how both do in this situation. He believes both will be on the team.
 

Crazy Canuck

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
10,077
Reaction score
0
I've actually been impressed at times with Leinart this preseason. There have been a couple of throws where he is getting crushed while throwing the ball because of consistently bad blocking but he completed the passes.

I've also seen it posted by some that Whis wants a gunslinger and a QB who can throw the deep ball. ??? Are we talking about the same coach?

What Leinart did vs. Tennessee in his only start last year and what he's done this preseason are exactly what Whis wants from him right now IMO. He has been very accurate, protected the ball and not hurt the team.

I mean, this is exactly what Whis & Haley were trying to get out of Warner not too long ago.

I agree that the offense hasn't looked dazzling with Leinart in the lineup but it's important to note that the "offense" hasn't looked good. Not just Leinart. The running game, if you can call it that, has been a negative factor for Leinart in his limited playing time, the pass protection has been suspect at best and there has been a huge shift in personnel from last year.

This is all just 2008 preseason all over again. Matt is the starter and Whis is using the preseason to tinker and test. It is very aggravating as a fan to watch his style of preseason but he is one of the few coaches who seems to use the preseason as it is intended. He actually uses it to test and evaluate players. He is not interested in implementing schemes and "winning" exhibition games.

And he has certainly earned the right to be called a fair coach so if Leinart was really on the bubble or there was anything he really needed to prove in preseason, Whis would not be handcuffing him and limiting his playing time. He knows what he has in Matt and I think DA has been playing himself out of a backup job.

Leinart is the one who has been accurate with the ball and protected it. That is exactly what Whis wants. Long, sustained drives and no turnovers. DA is the one who has been inaccurate with the ball, had fumbles and interceptions. Where has this theory that Whis wants an inaccurate, inconsistent QB who turns the ball over come from?

The media is eating all of this up because Brett Favre is back so that story is dead. TO is signed and looking good in Cincinnati so there's no story there. It's the dog days of summer and they desperately need a good QB controversy to talk about. But anyone who has watched the last few years knows that Whis is unconventional to say the least and if he isn't playing Leinart very much, there's a good chance that he's made his decision about him already.

Leinart has been referred to as Captain Checkdown.

Well, when you have 4 seconds or less to throw, you checkdown.

You get what you can get, and don't turn the ball over. In that he has been successful.

Given the non-existent run game the opposition "D" is has been pressuring continuously. This has been the "blitz" pre-season; the first that I recall.

Add to this, rookie W/O's who don't always recognize the blitz and cutoff their routes.

I've also noticed other teams going on 4th and one regularly; we haven't with Matt, and an opportunity to find some continuity has been lost. On the last point; Whiz probably has his reasons, but it all speaks to a dysfunction that doesn't simply lie a Leinart's feet.
 

Town Drunk

Longest serving ASFN lurker
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
Posts
9,123
Reaction score
9,651
Location
CA
A bitter Matt Leinart lashed out Friday, complaining about a lack of opportunity after being benched for Derek Anderson.
"It is disappointing and a little bit frustrating. I can't sit up here and say I'm happy and all smiles," said Leinart. "If it is an open competition, then let's have it that way from the start." Coach Ken Whisenhunt was eager to see Leinart's reaction to the move, and he's not handling this well at all. Leinart received first-team reps throughout the offseason and in the first two preseason games. That's more than fair.
Source: Darren Urban on Twitter
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,639
Reaction score
30,403
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Leinart has been referred to as Captain Checkdown.

Well, when you have 4 seconds or less to throw, you checkdown.

You get what you can get, and don't turn the ball over. In that he has been successful.

Given the non-existent run game the opposition "D" is has been pressuring continuously. This has been the "blitz" pre-season; the first that I recall.

Add to this, rookie W/O's who don't always recognize the blitz and cutoff their routes.

I've also noticed other teams going on 4th and one regularly; we haven't with Matt, and an opportunity to find some continuity has been lost. On the last point; Whiz probably has his reasons, but it all speaks to a dysfunction that doesn't simply lie a Leinart's feet.

That's not totally fair. Yes, the Titans blitzed, but apparently they always do in the preseason. But the Texans didn't. They just were able to get pressure because Mario Williams decided that he wanted to play and he's in a different ZIP code as a player from Brandon Keith or Levi Brown.

I think we'll see more of the Texans approach tomorrow. The Bears just don't blitz because it's not really in the Tampa-2 playbook and because Lovie Smith is a conservative defensive coach by nature. Maybe they'll open up their playbook, but I'm not sure that's going to be the case. The good news is that's going to lead to some interesting individual matchups in the first half.

I think the other reason that we're seeing more blitzes is because the running game isn't very effective and oppo DCs aren't going to just let the Cards pick up 1st downs on 3rd and 8. They'll call a blitz to see if it works.
 

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
810
Location
Bakersfield, CA
Leinart complaining throws a wrench into my scenario. I can't say that I disagree with his frustrating considering he's thrown less passes than Hall this preseason but if his position was as secure as I think it should be, I don't understand why he would be making comments like this.

I certainly don't claim to be as good at reading and manipulating players as Whis but I've always felt that Leinart needs to be lathered with support from his coach. Maybe that isn't the ideal type of player or macho or whatever but the guy has talent and to me, it seems that it would serve the team better if he was confident about his situation.

While I haven't been too disturbed by his preseason play, I, like everyone else, have noticed just how uncomfortable/unhappy Leinart has looked. I don't think that is the state of mind that you will get his best play on the field.
 
Top