Another day, another Cardinals legal issue (front office)

[Brian in Mesa]

You must be registered for see images attach

Just fine. Both my wife and I have lost friends to drunk drivers. Neither of us have ever had alcohol. Both of us were actively involved in S.A.D.D. in high school. Just a few years ago, we were both hit head-on by an extremely drunk driver (charged with 4 felonies) on an otherwise beautiful Sunday afternoon. My dad struggled with alcohol for years after being drafted and serving in Vietnam (he never drank before the war). Thankfully he has been recovered for many years now, but seeing some of the things I saw at an early age made my decision to never drink an easy one. I admittedly have zero tolerance for those that choose to drink and drive. Make excuses for the idiots getting behind the wheel and make fun of me all you'd like. We - as a team, as a state, as a society - are far too lax on DUI offenders.

 

[Cheesebeef]

people are still defending/deflecting for a guy who's gotten TWO DUIS. That's ridiculous and if he was the GM of any other team without a Cardinal on the helmet, he'd be getting universally slagged.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

people are still defending/deflecting for a guy who's gotten TWO DUIS. That's ridiculous and if he was the GM of any other team without a Cardinal on the helmet, he'd be getting universally slagged.

This is the first I have heard of this being his 2nd DUI. When did he get the other one?

 

[Solar7]

people are still defending/deflecting for a guy who's gotten TWO DUIS. That's ridiculous and if he was the GM of any other team without a Cardinal on the helmet, he'd be getting universally slagged.

I don't think I've seen anyone defending Keim?

As far as Minegar goes, I'm not a fan of destroying anyone's life for first time offenses like this (as far as I know, it is his first offense). You start taking everything away from someone who may have a substance abuse issue, and you put them in a situation where they may just continue to abuse.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

This is the first I have heard of this being his 2nd DUI. When did he get the other one?

Don't know how many Minegar (60 years old) has had, but Keim (46 years old) has gotten 2 DUI's. One pre-Cards and one with the Cards.

 

[JeffGollin]

There's enough "good guys get drunk/bad guys get drunk" back & forth that, at the very least, let consequences be the measure.

If, God forbid, you wreck your car, wreck someone else's car, injure or kill someone or get jailed because you put lives at risk: It's on you MF.

And breaking the law caused you to make that evening's police blotter, nice going - you just made every one around you's job just a bit tougher.

And if you have a "drinking problem", go get help and, btw, see ya!

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is the first I have heard of this being his 2nd DUI. When did he get the other one?

1996

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018...ow-about-cardinals-gm-steve-keims-dui-arrest/

I understand giving someone a pass for their first DUI, or at least giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was a major learning experience and they've changed their ways. To get a 2nd one and an EXTREME DUI as his second, while having all the access in the world/money to have transpo taken care of is unacceptable and quite frankly pathetic.

 

[Jersey Girl]

We've circled the wagons on this topic before, but I guess I can't understand why we're so openly allowed to serve alcohol to people in states where they are clearly going to be too drunk to drive unless someone can prove they have a DD or are leaving on public transportation.

Where is the responsibility of the people who are handing out the liquor? We perpetuate this culture by allowing it to consistently happen, and not offering useful public transportation in most cities.

Unfortunately, professional sports are the worst propagators of this. The Cardinals stadium, in a driving city, is far away from the center of the city, and has absolutely no public mass transit option. The light rail doesn't yet reach out there.

This seems like something so easily prevented with just a little pre-planning.

So should McDonald's not sell french fries to fat people because they might have a heart attack? For me, I'm all about personal accountability. It's not someone else's responsibility to make sure I don't drive drunk. It's MY responsibility.

 

[JCSunsfan]

1996

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018...ow-about-cardinals-gm-steve-keims-dui-arrest/

I understand giving someone a pass for their first DUI, or at least giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was a major learning experience and they've changed their ways. To get a 2nd one and an EXTREME DUI as his second, while having all the access in the world/money to have transpo taken care of is unacceptable and quite frankly pathetic.

22 years ago? Not sure what you all have as a level of tolerance on this. I don't drink at all, so I really don't have a context.

 

[Solar7]

So should McDonald's not sell french fries to fat people because they might have a heart attack? For me, I'm all about personal accountability. It's not someone else's responsibility to make sure I don't drive drunk. It's MY responsibility.

I dunno. Someone who might get a little fat with some french fries isn't the equivalent of someone who is overserving a person who is going to go be a real threat to others in a specific moment.

Bartenders very extremely overserve patrons all the time. It's a second layer of protection in this case, to try to get people to not be able to drink shot after shot after shot when you pretty much know they're going to go out and be irresponsible.

Yes, it is a personal choice, but considering its an inexact science, and people make mistakes, there should be another layer.

But I get it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

22 years ago? Not sure what you all have as a level of tolerance on this. I don't drink at all, so I really don't have a context.

I'll be honest, I was a stupid young kid once who was lucky enough to drive drunk and never hurt anyone. So, I get people being young and stupid. But when you do the young and stupid thing AND get caught with a DUI and you STILL not only don't change, but then go out, with all the resources and money in the world like Keim has and you go out and get an EXTREME DUI... on a freaking holiday no less... I've got ZERO tolerance for that crap. If you're willing to go out on a night you KNOW the cops are gonna be in full force, have already gotten a DUI and still get smashed and drive, you're not only a garbage human, IMO but a complete and utter moron to boot.

Like I said, I give a shred of tolerance for someone young getting their first DUI and then changing their lifestyle or becoming more aware of their actions and less reckless. I definitely had to put that crap in the rear-view when I was younger and did so A LOOOOOOOONG time ago. Any time I EVER go out drinking now, I take an Uber or make sure to schedule something sneakily so it's within walking distance of my place.

Oh and last thing.. none of the above is in any way shape or form condoning drinking and driving. I was a complete and utter jerk, cornholio, whatever name you want to call me for doing any of that stuff when I was younger.

 

[Solar7]

I'll be honest, I was a stupid young kid once who was lucky enough to drive drunk and never hurt anyone. So, I get people being young and stupid. But when you do the young and stupid thing AND get caught with a DUI and you STILL not only don't change, but then go out, with all the resources and money in the world like Keim has and you go out and get an EXTREME DUI... on a freaking holiday no less... I've got ZERO tolerance for that crap. If you're willing to go out on a night you KNOW the cops are gonna be in full force, have already gotten a DUI and still get smashed and drive, you're not only a garbage human, IMO but a complete and utter moron to boot.

Like I said, I give a shred of tolerance for someone young getting their first DUI and then changing their lifestyle or becoming more aware of their actions and less reckless. I definitely had to put that crap in the rear-view when I was younger and did so A LOOOOOOOONG time ago. Any time I EVER go out drinking now, I take an Uber or make sure to schedule something sneakily so it's within walking distance of my place.

Oh and last thing.. none of the above is in any way shape or form condoning drinking and driving. I was a complete and utter jerk, *******, whatever name you want to call me for doing any of that stuff when I was younger.

I echo all of these sentiments.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I'll be honest, I was a stupid young kid once who was lucky enough to drive drunk and never hurt anyone. So, I get people being young and stupid. But when you do the young and stupid thing AND get caught with a DUI and you STILL not only don't change, but then go out, with all the resources and money in the world like Keim has and you go out and get an EXTREME DUI... on a freaking holiday no less... I've got ZERO tolerance for that crap. If you're willing to go out on a night you KNOW the cops are gonna be in full force, have already gotten a DUI and still get smashed and drive, you're not only a garbage human, IMO but a complete and utter moron to boot.

Like I said, I give a shred of tolerance for someone young getting their first DUI and then changing their lifestyle or becoming more aware of their actions and less reckless. I definitely had to put that crap in the rear-view when I was younger and did so A LOOOOOOOONG time ago. Any time I EVER go out drinking now, I take an Uber or make sure to schedule something sneakily so it's within walking distance of my place.

Oh and last thing.. none of the above is in any way shape or form condoning drinking and driving. I was a complete and utter jerk, *******, whatever name you want to call me for doing any of that stuff when I was younger.

 

[cardncubfan]

Just fine. Both my wife and I have lost friends to drunk drivers. Neither of us have ever had alcohol. Both of us were actively involved in S.A.D.D. in high school. Just a few years ago, we were both hit head-on by an extremely drunk driver (charged with 4 felonies) on an otherwise beautiful Sunday afternoon. My dad struggled with alcohol for years after being drafted and serving in Vietnam (he never drank before the war). Thankfully he has been recovered for many years now, but seeing some of the things I saw at an early age made my decision to never drink an easy one. I admittedly have zero tolerance for those that choose to drink and drive. Make excuses for the idiots getting behind the wheel and make fun of me all you'd like. We - as a team, as a state, as a society - are far too lax on DUI offenders.

I'm referring to you posting playing the violin saying boo freaking hoo to gimpy's post talking about how alcohol affects your decision making. You have absolutely no clue how alcohol affects you since you've never touched a drop. You may think you know but you don't. As far as your dad, mine wasn't so lucky. He died 3 years after leaving Vietnam with cirrhosis of the liver at age 30. I was 9.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I'm referring to you posting playing the violin saying boo freaking hoo to gimpy's post talking about how alcohol affects your decision making. You have absolutely no clue how alcohol affects you since you've never touched a drop. You may think you know but you don't. As far as your dad, mine wasn't so lucky. He died 3 years after leaving Vietnam with cirrhosis of the liver at age 30. I was 9.

C'mon now - we were talking about Minegar. The guy is 60 freaking years old and people are still making excuses for him. "Maybe he didn't know he was gonna drink." "Maybe he had some drinks and it affected his thought process." I'll say it again - Boo freaking hoo. Probably known as a drinker ala Keim. NO excuse not to plan ahead and be safe. All of these what-if's and talks of effects, etc are just excuses. For the most part people are aware and just don't care.

Also, I don't have to drink at all to be able to understand not driving when you're impaired (sleep deprived, ill, medicated, etc) or the importance of making alternate plans to be safe. I've also taken part in many S.A.D.D. and M.A.D.D. events where they simulate the effects of drinking (blurry goggles, obstacle course, etc).

I am sorry to hear about your dad.

 

[Solar7]

Also, I don't have to drink at all to be able to understand not driving when you're impaired (sleep deprived, ill, medicated, etc) or the importance of making alternate plans to be safe. I've also taken part in many S.A.D.D. and M.A.D.D. events where they simulate the effects of drinking (blurry goggles, obstacle course, etc).

I understand and respect your position on this. Even though I am a frequent drinker, I would probably support a zero tolerance policy, as it just makes more logical sense than saying "you can only drink so much and it's your personal responsibility to just kinda eyeball it and hope you're right." Or maybe if every vehicle had an interlock... or something.

But what I will say is that those "simulated drinking" things are not very accurate. They'll strap on those goggles and say "this is what it's like to have two beers," and then you realize as a man between 170-200 lbs that the effect of drinking two beers practically has zero effect on you.

Again, that's not an excuse for anyone, but there's such a wild difference in the size of people, their tolerance, the % content of "one beer" and other factors that mean there's not really a 100% empirical level of impairment, which can lead to a lot of issues.

In the situation where I'm a frequent drinker, consuming the same amount of alcohol vs. someone who did not ever consume, would have a wildly different effect.

 

[BigRedRage]

I understand and respect your position on this. Even though I am a frequent drinker, I would probably support a zero tolerance policy, as it just makes more logical sense than saying "you can only drink so much and it's your personal responsibility to just kinda eyeball it and hope you're right." Or maybe if every vehicle had an interlock... or something.

But what I will say is that those "simulated drinking" things are not very accurate. They'll strap on those goggles and say "this is what it's like to have two beers," and then you realize as a man between 170-200 lbs that the effect of drinking two beers practically has zero effect on you.

Again, that's not an excuse for anyone, but there's such a wild difference in the size of people, their tolerance, the % content of "one beer" and other factors that mean there's not really a 100% empirical level of impairment, which can lead to a lot of issues.

In the situation where I'm a frequent drinker, consuming the same amount of alcohol vs. someone who did not ever consume, would have a wildly different effect.

Beyond the fact that blurry vision is the least of the problems when hammered.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Beyond the fact that blurry vision is the least of the problems when hammered.

That's why I listed other types of impairment too. Being sleep deprived, ill, or on heavy medication can be just as bad because of loss of focus, reaction time reduction, poor vision, etc.

Part of being a responsible person is knowing when you won't be able to operate a vehicle safely (regardless of the reason) and making plans for someone else to drive or to stop and rest.

This is far from rocket science.

 

[BigRedRage]

That's why I listed other types of impairment too. Being sleep deprived, ill, or on heavy medication can be just as bad because of loss of focus, reaction time reduction, poor vision, etc.

Part of being a responsible person is knowing when you won't be able to operate a vehicle safely (regardless of the reason) and making plans for someone else to drive or to stop and rest.

This is far from rocket science.

I've never had a DUI so you can spare me the lectures. I was simply commenting to Solar that while he was playing along with the goggles thing, that does not show what impairment is like. If anything, driving tired is usually even worse than driving drunk unless you are REALLY drunk. Some of the scariest situations I have put myself in are trying to get home while SUPER tired.

 

[Solar7]

Beyond the fact that blurry vision is the least of the problems when hammered.

My only point to BIM was just that while he's tried these things at these events, it's not really a good indicator of what it's like to partake in alcohol and drive.

I don't support drinking and driving by any means, but getting to a .08 for most people takes no effort and has very little effect. That's why so many people end up in this DUI situation. They don't feel inebriated, and it's not this wildly crazy "you're hammered" feeling that sometimes it's sensationalized as.

That's kinda why I'm saying zero tolerance, or put an interlock in all new vehicles - there's simply not a very good way for most people to know where they are besides "how they feel." The tools aren't given to people to be safe besides not drinking at all - which is difficult in a lot of environments.

 

[gimpy]

My initial response was not intended for making excuses for anyone. The intent of my post (here we go) was to the people on here who think that it is so easy for people to arrange for a ride or make other arrangements so that they don't drive or do something stupid.
Drink enough alcohol and you lose a lot of your inhibitions, so things that you might d, you ordinarily wouldn't do or say, make a fool of yourself, argue, fight.

As Solar said above. For most people, a . 08 is almost nothing when most people are out drinking. Depending on your sex, weight, food consumption, etc., for most people 3 to 5 drinks (beer, whiskey, wine, whatever) will get you close to that (.08).

By state law, you can be found guilty of dui if you have less than a point 08 blood alcohol level. (just an FYI).

Just because you say they have the money to arrange it or plan for a ride, it necessarily mean they can or will or actually do it if they have planned it.

Well, go CARDS.

 

[BigRedRage]

if I ever get a DUI, blame me, not my drunken decision making. I know when I need an uber and when I dont. Especially if the DUI is an extreme DUI.

 

[gimpy]

 

[BigRedRage]

Sorry. I believe in personal responsibility and accountability. if I get a DUI, it's my fault. period. ESPECIALLY an extreme DUI. a .08 DUI means I wasn't even drunk. An extreme DUI means I am ********* and shouldn't have been driving and there is no excuse that would ever hold up, work or matter.

I am in no way joining the "he is human garbage" choir but I also have zero interest in making excuses for him.

 

[Jersey Girl]

if I ever get a DUI, blame me, not my drunken decisionb making. I know when I need an uber and when I dont. Especially if the DUI is an extreme DUI.

Ditto that!

On a side note, the first IPA I had after having my daughter and not drinking for 11 months nearly knocked me on my arse. Just one. Now? Keep 'em coming, lol. Not really, but I'm just agreeing to the idea that alcohol affects people in different ways. Does that mean you should be driving a car? No, IMHO.