Antrel Rolle

[Cbus cardsfan]

The scheme is pretty bad.SF had a 3rd and long from about the Arizona 15 and Eric Green was lined up at the 5. THe SF WR did a slant and should've scored a TD. Green,after backpedaling, wasn't even on him until the WR was at the goal line. Lucky for the Cards that he dropped it. Last week the same thing happened with Rolle. He backpedalled about 4 yards deep into the end zone and the Bronco WR just stopped at the goal line and caught a TD pass. They are obviously being coached that technique because all the DB's do it no matter what down and distance.

 

[D-Dogg]

Have you seen him in bump and run???

There is a reason they have him 10 yards of the WR.

No, because they haven't had him do it. Yes, I have though, at the U.

The reason they have him 10 yards off is because we don't have cover safeties. Because that's the way Clancy puts him to fit CLANCY'S scheme, not the way Rolle would be best utilized.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Rolle should become a S.

 

[D-Dogg]

Rolle should become a S.

And what do you do with AW then? Or do you think Rolle should be a FS?

 

[vince56]

And what do you do with AW then? Or do you think Rolle should be a FS?

Free Safety. Griffith is a great hitter and appears to be a wonderful leader, but Rolle could probably cover more ground out there teamed up with Wilson.

 

[D-Dogg]

Rolle at FS is a move I could be down with...I don't want to see AW moved at all.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Rolle at FS is a move I could be down with...I don't want to see AW moved at all.

Rolle is a sure tackler. Something you need at FS.

 

[Brewster10]

Why does everyone think it is easy to make the transition from CB to Safety? You guys are talkin like Rolle would be an above average player at safety...

Give the kid a chance... i also think Rolle's strength is playin close to the line, and beating guys up... he played a very physical style of corner at Miami... havent seen him jam and bump too many guys since becomin a Card

 

[conraddobler]

Why does everyone think it is easy to make the transition from CB to Safety? You guys are talkin like Rolle would be an above average player at safety...

Give the kid a chance... i also think Rolle's strength is playin close to the line, and beating guys up... he played a very physical style of corner at Miami... havent seen him jam and bump too many guys since becomin a Card

FS is one of the easier positions to play, it all unfolds in front of you, Rolle is actually faster than average for the position and he has good tackling skills, he's practically the perfect FS.

Corners are more valuable and they make more so everyone is going to try to make him one if they can but I'm not sold at all on that.

 

[overseascardfan]

FS is one of the easier positions to play, it all unfolds in front of you, Rolle is actually faster than average for the position and he has good tackling skills, he's practically the perfect FS.

Corners are more valuable and they make more so everyone is going to try to make him one if they can but I'm not sold at all on that.

I am for bringing in Clements and Samuel and using Green as a nickel back and putting Rolle at FS.

 

[Evil Ash]

I am for bringing in Clements and Samuel and using Green as a nickel back and putting Rolle at FS.

1) There is no way in hell we get both Samuel and Clements. There are quite a few teams with salary cap room and needs at CB.

2) I'd still prefer to give Rolle another year after an offseason in which we fix our musts in the offseason (FS and OLB) and have a new coaching staff that knows what the hell its doing.

If you can get Clements then go get him. Then let Rolle and Green fight for the 2nd CB spot.

People are giving up on Rolle way too quickly IMO

 

[WildBB]

1) There is no way in hell we get both Samuel and Clements. There are quite a few teams with salary cap room and needs at CB.

2) I'd still prefer to give Rolle another year after an offseason in which we fix our musts in the offseason (FS and OLB) and have a new coaching staff that knows what the hell its doing.

If you can get Clements then go get him. Then let Rolle and Green fight for the 2nd CB spot.

People are giving up on Rolle way too quickly IMO

 

[D-Dogg]

Figured I should put this post in here too, as this is about Antrel specifically:

Rolle is not suited for off-coverage, period. Hopefully the next DC will allow him to use his physical tools more effectivley.

This is the main issue, IMO. Everything on Rolle coming out was that he was a great physical, bump and run corner. Here, he has 10 yard cushions. You couldn't use him more incorrectly.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/8279673

1. Antrel Rolle, Miami

Positives: Size (6-0, 201 pounds), bump-and-run skills, ball skills, leaping ability, instincts … His physical style, especially in press coverage, should allow him to have immediate success with officials emphasizing the no-contact rule beyond five yards of the line of scrimmage. He looks like a certain top-10 choice.

Negatives: Route recognition, change-of-direction ability.

In this case, we go away from his positives and put him in a position to showcase his negatives. You are asking a guy with issues changing direction (and starting/stopping) to cover a receiver at full speed already...hello PI.


http://www.orangebowl.org/newsroom.php?sec=article&newsid=409

FSU OC before the Orange Bowl.

On wide receivers facing Antrel Rolle:
“We had a little motion package against Miami in this past game and I am not sure if it was the weather in Tallahassee, but Miami set back a little and let us try to throw the deep balls, knowing that that would be difficult. The motion package caused them to play a little loose and have to adjust and not be as tight. That way they couldn’t stand at the line all day long and beat a guy man-on-man. But Antrel Rolle has been a hot topic in our wide receiver meetings because he has shut down the receiver position the past couple years. We haven’t had any production until this past game because of him, and that is a credit to him.”

On Miami CB Antrel Rolle:
“There is nothing about Antrel Rolle outside his physical abilities. He is fast. He is big. Those two characteristics in a bump and run cover corner equal a first-round player. He is a great player. If he was slow, he wouldn’t be able to play bump and run. But he is a heck-of-a player. Don’t think that I am putting in players against him that are bad players either.”

Antrel on Antrel, pre-draft

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/8383030

Despite his physical style, he has no concerns about the NFL's extra emphasis on enforcing the rule against making contact with receivers five yards beyond the line of scrimmage. If anything, Rolle believes the enforcement gives him an advantage over other cornerbacks because he already is conditioned to make contact legally.

"I don't think it'll be a major adjustment for me," he said. "I try to do my damage at the line of scrimmage as soon as possible. And I pretty much run with him, follow his hips from there.

"You can't beat them up and down the field like you used to. But knowing, at the same time, you have five yards to do what you want to do, that's usually the time frame when the receiver either gets off the line or gets jammed at the line. So I don't think it makes that much of a difference."

Until I see him used in the CORRECT way in the NFL and fail in that way, I won't call him a bust. This is one of the things that has me disenchanted with Clancy's schemes. When Rolle shut down Larry Fitzgerald in college, he wasn't playing Fitz with a 10-yard cushion.

 

[D-Dogg]

Ok, this makes it completely clear...predraft on Rolle:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/rolle_antrel

Positives: ~snip~ Excels in press coverage, showing the strength to jam and reroute receivers at the line of scrimmage …

Ok, there's his strength.

Negatives: ~snip~ Better when playing in the short area, as he does not have the sustained speed playing off the receivers in man coverage …

Hmm. Did Clancy not get the memo? Can you think of any other example of a team/coach taking a player and using him EXACTLY opposite of his strengths and weaknesses? It's not like those items are secrets, but it is maddening looking at them.

I almost want to gather all this stuff up and fax it to the Cardinals with highlights. Seriously, I think they've got a case of dyslexia as to Rolle's strengths/weaknesses.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Ok, this makes it completely clear...predraft on Rolle:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/rolle_antrel



Ok, there's his strength.



Hmm. Did Clancy not get the memo? Can you think of any other example of a team/coach taking a player and using him EXACTLY opposite of his strengths and weaknesses? It's not like those items are secrets, but it is maddening looking at them.

I almost want to gather all this stuff up and fax it to the Cardinals with highlights. Seriously, I think they've got a case of dyslexia as to Rolle's strengths/weaknesses.

D-Dogg, in order to be successful in the NFL, CB's at times will need to be able to effectively play off a WR... A CB can not exclusively play the press game all game long, 16 games a season...
I'm not at all defending Clancy in any way, as I rarely if ever saw Rolle in press coverage. My view is that Rolle will not, ever, be an effective NFL CB - period... I think the idea of moving him to FS is certainly worth a try, however, the lack of speed and instincts I see in him, lead me to question if he can even be effective there as well...
Hate to say it - and yes, it's still too early to make this call, but I think we are looking at a classic first round bust...

 

[D-Dogg]

D-Dogg, in order to be successful in the NFL, CB's at times will need to be able to effectively play off a WR... A CB can not exclusively play the press game all game long, 16 games a season...
I'm not at all defending Clancy in any way, as I rarely if ever saw Rolle in press coverage. My view is that Rolle will not, ever, be an effective NFL CB - period... I think the idea of moving him to FS is certainly worth a try, however, the lack of speed and instincts I see in him, lead me to question if he can even be effective there as well...
Hate to say it - and yes, it's still too early to make this call, but I think we are looking at a classic first round bust...

Of course he would play man off coverage, but not exclusively, and definitely not 10 yards off. If he plays press, he can disrupt a WR mentally, and get himself going mentally both of which would carry over to when he had to play off, as well as having the WR guessing what he'd be doing next and focusing on Rolle and not his route.

He's being put in a position to fail, and when he fails, we all act surprised. If he's put in a position to win, and fails...well then I'll say he's a bust. Played to his strengths and with a real DB coach, I think Rolle would either excel or be average, both are better than where he is now. I see him becoming our #2 CB with a FA like Clements, and being solid. But he has to be used correctly.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Of course he would play man off coverage, but not exclusively, and definitely not 10 yards off. If he plays press, he can disrupt a WR mentally, and get himself going mentally both of which would carry over to when he had to play off, as well as having the WR guessing what he'd be doing next and focusing on Rolle and not his route.

He's being put in a position to fail, and when he fails, we all act surprised. If he's put in a position to win, and fails...well then I'll say he's a bust. Played to his strengths and with a real DB coach, I think Rolle would either excel or be average, both are better than where he is now. I see him becoming our #2 CB with a FA like Clements, and being solid. But he has to be used correctly.

I disagree... Don't know if it was the knee surgery or what, but Antrel is far from having the speed and quickness needed to be successful in the NFL as a CB. I don't care how often he plays press, in the NFL, there are plenty of WR's who know how to get by a slow CB trying to play press... Without the required speed, quickness and instincts, Rolle has been and will continue to be exposed... It's a major bummer as I really had high hopes for this kid... But, aside from his ability to tackle with the best of 'em, he isn't even close to being an average NFL CB...

 

[BigDavis75]

I disagree... Don't know if it was the knee surgery or what, but Antrel is far from having the speed and quickness needed to be successful in the NFL as a CB. I don't care how often he plays press, in the NFL, there are plenty of WR's who know how to get by a slow CB trying to play press... Without the required speed, quickness and instincts, Rolle has been and will continue to be exposed... It's a major bummer as I really had high hopes for this kid... But, aside from his ability to tackle with the best of 'em, he isn't even close to being an average NFL CB...

Agreed, speed is probably the biggest asset for a CB outside of a correct scheme. You see it with guys like Rashean Mathis and Hall, they are able to compensate for mental lapses with excellent speed and you see Deshea Townsend, who is very slow, being put in a scheme to succeed and he plays well every game. Since Rolle is not in the correct scheme, he needs the speed.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Agreed, speed is probably the biggest asset for a CB outside of a correct scheme. You see it with guys like Rashean Mathis and Hall, they are able to compensate for mental lapses with excellent speed and you see Deshea Townsend, who is very slow, being put in a scheme to succeed and he plays well every game. Since Rolle is not in the correct scheme, he needs the speed.

Quickness and Instincts as well... Rolle seems totally lost, even when he's actually tight with the WR. Almost as if he's playing out of position, or a position that is new to him...
I have to admit, he's got me totally confused as in college, he seemed so dominant - at a bigtime program playing topflight opponents...
I really wonder just how much his knee injury set him back, physically and mentally...
In either case, sadly, I believe we have seen the best Antrel has to offer at CB... And as far as I can tell, the only word that comes to mind is BUST... Hope I'm wrong... but I think not...

 

[Covert Rain]

Move Rolle to Free Safety draft another corner. I think Rolle is average at best at corner. Although I think he has all the tools to play safety.

 

[artp]

Antel Rolle has the talent to contribute to a Playoff team in some capacity. I think the Cardinals need to keep Rolle.