Anybody an expert on drug masking?

[jf-08]

Originally posted by jmt
Who cares if he masked a drug test? Caveat emptor. The war on drugs is a farce and a failure. Personally I'm tired of drug tests and roadblocks and surveillance cameras and airport security and warrantless searches and internet censorship and the Patriot Act and the continued erosion of our civil liberties.

The problem is that there are too many jerks out there that without these limits ........

okay I promised not to get into this one again.......

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by jmt
Who cares if he masked a drug test? Caveat emptor. The war on drugs is a farce and a failure. Personally I'm tired of drug tests and roadblocks and surveillance cameras and airport security and warrantless searches and internet censorship and the Patriot Act and the continued erosion of our civil liberties.

Woe is you. However do you survive such oppression?

 

[Cardinal Bob]

Originally posted by jmt
Who cares if he masked a drug test? Caveat emptor. The war on drugs is a farce and a failure. Personally I'm tired of drug tests and roadblocks and surveillance cameras and airport security and warrantless searches and internet censorship and the Patriot Act and the continued erosion of our civil liberties.

It's just The Man keeping us down!!!

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by jmt
Who cares if he masked a drug test? Caveat emptor. The war on drugs is a farce and a failure. Personally I'm tired of drug tests and roadblocks and surveillance cameras and airport security and warrantless searches and internet censorship and the Patriot Act and the continued erosion of our civil liberties.

OK but it becomes different when you're about to invest millions of dollars in the guy and if he is using drugs he could end up banned from the league. I get your point but you don't think the Raiders wish Darrell Russell cared a little less about civil liberties and a little more about the established rules of the NFL?

 

[Tangodnzr]

I hated Richard Nixon even before Watergate.
I was finishing up my tour of duty in Viet Nam in November of 1970. My year was up Thanksgiving Day. I had shipped into Cam Rahn Bay the last few days to start the processing for coming home.
The drug problem had become so prevalent at that point, that Nixon got passed a regulation that every GI had to take a drug test before you could go back home.
Well, needless to say they were catching guys right and left......but the most heartbreaking part of it all....and something I will never, ever forget as long as I live....is seeing those who failed the test put in a big wire stockade in the middle of the compound and just left to go cold turkey.
I guess watching those poor souls in agony was supposed to be a deterrent to others doing the same.
A lot of those guys never wanted to be there in the first place, others went out of patriotic duty. Yes....they SHOULD have known better...but thats a whole lot easier said than done, especially if you were there.
Only the ones who were there can understand some of the pressures there were. For the US Government to turn their backs lon their own soldiers like that was, and is, totally reprehensible to me.
The "War on Drugs" whether it be alcohol or whatever, is a political scam. It's a nice safe platform for any politician to jump on and know that not too many will oppose that view.
I've seen some people with serious drug problems that I consider more moral than some of the rightous do gooders ready to jail everyone else who partakes of an "illegal" drug.
Dont' get me wrong....I cetainly don't condone drug use....but many times the "war" against them is worse than the problem itself.

 

[Tangodnzr]

And yes Russ, I agree with you. In the here and now, if a young athlete is on the brink of making millions of dollars and can set him self up financially for life.....to blow that with some drug use is totally insane.
And in that case, where there's smoke there is often fire. If someone is stupid enough to jeopordize their entire future that way, it really has to make you think twice about whether you want to invest time and money into them as an employee whom YOUR future may partially depend upon.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
And yes Russ, I agree with you. In the here and now, if a young athlete is on the brink of making millions of dollars and can set him self up financially for life.....to blow that with some drug use is totally insane.
And in that case, where there's smoke there is often fire. If someone is stupid enough to jeopordize their entire future that way, it really has to make you think twice about whether you want to invest time and money into them as an employee whom YOUR future may partially depend upon.

This is the exact reason that David Boston is not a Card anymore. I especially like you using the cliche of "when there is smoke.......". Very fitting! Good posts Tango!

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
And yes Russ, I agree with you. In the here and now, if a young athlete is on the brink of making millions of dollars and can set him self up financially for life.....to blow that with some drug use is totally insane.
And in that case, where there's smoke there is often fire. If someone is stupid enough to jeopordize their entire future that way, it really has to make you think twice about whether you want to invest time and money into them as an employee whom YOUR future may partially depend upon.

I completely agree.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
And yes Russ, I agree with you. In the here and now, if a young athlete is on the brink of making millions of dollars and can set him self up financially for life.....to blow that with some drug use is totally insane.
And in that case, where there's smoke there is often fire. If someone is stupid enough to jeopordize their entire future that way, it really has to make you think twice about whether you want to invest time and money into them as an employee whom YOUR future may partially depend upon.

I agree 100% with what you are saying...except, they largely don't care because they know they will get their money somewhere down the line and mostly, that is their desire. Rogers doing this hurts him but I bet it doesn't even drop him out of the top 10 so the money hit won't be all that great. Plus, when he is a FA he can recoup alot of that money as long as he stays out of trouble...which with any intelligence he can.

The current contract system in the NFL places little accountability on the guys who haven't played snap one from a money standpoint. The rule should be, you fail the test during combine...for anything, they give you one retake unannounced and if you fail that...you are not allowed to enter the draft for 1 year. Put some teeth into the rule. Those of us in the real world can not be given jobs if we fail a pre-employment drug screen. Maybe they should be held to the same??

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Rogers doing this hurts him but I bet it doesn't even drop him out of the top 10

It probably won't even drop him out of the top two.


Personally, I could care a less if he smokes pot (if in fact that's all this turns out to be).

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
It probably won't even drop him out of the top two.


Personally, I could care a less if he smokes pot (if in fact that's all this turns out to be).

I agree 100%.

If the player never gets caught by the league or by the police it doesn't matter. Russ posted an article or something about Mark Stepnoski, and how he is a big time pot smoker and it never affected him at all.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I agree 100%.

If the player never gets caught by the league or by the police it doesn't matter. Russ posted an article or something about Mark Stepnoski, and how he is a big time pot smoker and it never affected him at all.

But if the Cards drafted him and he was smoking pot all the time and it affected his play...how would you feel then?

remember Rashaan Salaam? He smoked pot alot in CHI and it has been widely attributed as the reason he was fumbling all the time. He even admitted to be high during games. How would feel if that happened?

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by AZCB34
But if the Cards drafted him and he was smoking pot all the time and it affected his play...how would you feel then?

Well, then obviously that would suck.

 

[earthsci]

Huge difference between thinking that it's OK for someone to smoke a joint at the end of the day and right before a game.

 

[ajcardfan]

I remember seeing a story about Stepnoski not too long ago. He's the head of NORML in Texas, trying to legalize pot. I believe he said he never played high, but used it as a pain killer the days after games. He also quit smoking for a couple of months before the training camp urine test.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I agree 100%.

If the player never gets caught by the league or by the police it doesn't matter. Russ posted an article or something about Mark Stepnoski, and how he is a big time pot smoker and it never affected him at all.

Yep.

But remember for every Stepnoski there's a Julius Peppers who walks into GNC, buys a completely legal over the counter supplement, uses it, and gets suspended by the NFL for 4 games because the supplement contains Ephedra. Probably good for Peppers' safety but again it's completely legal and he said he had no idea it was not ok with the NFL.

My concern is really for the team shelling out that much money for a player who could get suspended even for pot. Remember if Rogers were to get suspended the team who lost him doesn't have to pay him, but that doesn't mean it doesn't "cost" them in terms of not being able to replace that draft pick they used on Rogers.

NFL teams don't avoid guys with drug rumors because they think drugs are bad, they avoid them because they don't want to have that player get suspended.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Yep.

But remember for every Stepnoski there's a Julius Peppers who walks into GNC, buys a completely legal over the counter supplement, uses it, and gets suspended by the NFL for 4 games because the supplement contains Ephedra. Probably good for Peppers' safety but again it's completely legal and he said he had no idea it was not ok with the NFL.

My concern is really for the team shelling out that much money for a player who could get suspended even for pot. Remember if Rogers were to get suspended the team who lost him doesn't have to pay him, but that doesn't mean it doesn't "cost" them in terms of not being able to replace that draft pick they used on Rogers.

NFL teams don't avoid guys with drug rumors because they think drugs are bad, they avoid them because they don't want to have that player get suspended.

And after that he gets a cold and takes an OTC cold medicine and BAM...he is gone for one year. That is why this is a huge deal. Doesn't matter if we think pot is harmless or not. It may very well be but when it directly affects things, it is a big deal. Will the attitude be: "Well, he dropped 18 passes in the first half of the year and we know he smokes pot...but hey it is just pot."

Anyone wonder if Boston started out smoking a little ganja and then he moved into coke?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34
And after that he gets a cold and takes an OTC cold medicine and BAM...he is gone for one year. That is why this is a huge deal. Doesn't matter if we think pot is harmless or not. It may very well be but when it directly affects things, it is a big deal. Will the attitude be: "Well, he dropped 18 passes in the first half of the year and we know he smokes pot...but hey it is just pot."

Anyone wonder if Boston started out smoking a little ganja and then he moved into coke?

No doubt in my mind. Believe me when I say this (since many of the players in the NFL are closer to my age) most of the NFL does some form of drugs, whether it is roids, coke ($=coke), or pot, or even now ecstasy (which I've heard rumors linking Boston....nevermind).

I am firmly against, ANYONE doing drugs and playing football, going to school, going to work....but I'm not actually against mature adults moderately using drugs at home.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
No doubt in my mind. Believe me when I say this (since many of the players in the NFL are closer to my age) most of the NFL does some form of drugs, whether it is roids, coke ($=coke), or pot, or even now ecstasy (which I've heard rumors linking Boston....nevermind).

I am firmly against, ANYONE doing drugs and playing football, going to school, going to work....but I'm not actually against mature adults moderately using drugs at home.

So if an airline pilot just smokes a joint at home when he is kicking back, it is ok if he fails a drug test at work because he wasn't working high? I guess, I am asking where is the line drawn? I am aware that the airline pilot and football player have vastly different responsibilities but....

BTW, I am not against pot. In fact I rather enjoyed my fair share but there has to be a line drawn.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34
So if an airline pilot just smokes a joint at home when he is kicking back, it is ok if he fails a drug test at work because he wasn't working high? I guess, I am asking where is the line drawn? I am aware that the airline pilot and football player have vastly different responsibilities but....

BTW, I am not against pot. In fact I rather enjoyed my fair share but there has to be a line drawn.

Oh a pilot should be tested regularly....but a Walmart employee shouldn't!

I read a book last semester (damn college) called "Nickeled and Dimed: On (not) getting by in America" Very good read. It shows the plight of the working poor in this country, and one major concern for the working poor is drug testing.

 

[jmt]

But the airline pilot who smokes a joint on vacation can fail a piss test a month later and that ain't right.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Oh a pilot should be tested regularly....but a Walmart employee shouldn't!

I read a book last semester (damn college) called "Nickeled and Dimed: On (not) getting by in America" Very good read. It shows the plight of the working poor in this country, and one major concern for the working poor is drug testing.

Yes but we are talking about football players who can hardly be considered the working poor. This is about us accepting an athlete doing pot when first pot is illegal in the first place. We accept it as nothing when in reality it is something.

Let's play a hypothetical game. Cards keep Boston. Week 2 of the year, he fails a drug test and is suspended 4 weeks. Are you pissed? If so what are you pissed at? The fact he is hurting the team or are you mad at the NFl for "prying" into peoples personal lives?

Also, why is it fair to treat a pilot different from a cashier at Walmart? Simply because of their job titles?

I worked for a long time in the airline industry so I was piss tested alot. I didn't like it but hey, it all comes down to safety so obviously it makes sense for them to tested alot but I fail to see why they should be singled out.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Yes but we are talking about football players who can hardly be considered the working poor. This is about us accepting an athlete doing pot when first pot is illegal in the first place. We accept it as nothing when in reality it is something.

Let's play a hypothetical game. Cards keep Boston. Week 2 of the year, he fails a drug test and is suspended 4 weeks. Are you pissed? If so what are you pissed at? The fact he is hurting the team or are you mad at the NFl for "prying" into peoples personal lives?

Also, why is it fair to treat a pilot different from a cashier at Walmart? Simply because of their job titles?

I worked for a long time in the airline industry so I was piss tested alot. I didn't like it but hey, it all comes down to safety so obviously it makes sense for them to tested alot but I fail to see why they should be singled out.

It comes down to safety in my mind. An airline pilot is in charge of lives, while a Walmart employee is in charge of a cash register.

I actually agree with everything you are saying. I agree the NFL should drug test for steroids and other illegal drugs. Not a question in my mind. But in our society, I think some employers have gone overboard with the conservative (mostly not totally) anti-drug propaganda.

I have use drugs in my life, but I choose not to now. I know firsthand what cocaine, speed, pot, ecstasy, etc. can do to people. Drugs really do ruin a lot of peoples lives, but not everyone. I know very educated well adjusted people who smoke pot 3-4 times a day, but I also know loser drug addicts that sit around and smoke speed all day. I'm glad that years ago, I choose to step away from all that bad stuff, and my life has improved since then.

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I know someone who was on probation and got hit with a random drug test. He was given 3 days notice, so for 3 days drank as much water as he possibly could.
He was a regular pot smoker.
He passed the urine test. That's all I know.
So it is not totally myth.

No one can do anything about having too much water in your sytem. Our body is more water than anything else. It may make some one suspicious on some tests such as this...but the day having too much water in your body becomes illegal is the day this country needs a revolution and overthrow of political power.
There are many, many reasons why the body might retain too much water.
Everything from kidney malfunction to being pregnant. (I sure hope he wasn't that. LOL).

Unless they have him perform another test, that turns something positive up.....this is all a bunch of hogwash.

Your idea is right but in fact, if there is too much water durring a test they will FAIL you...

They know it is a way people try to hide drugs and WILL fail you...