Are Cards smokescreening the wrong QB?

[Harry]

I don’t think many would buy the Cards we’re replacing pocket passer Rosenwith another pocket passer. As best I can tell no one came out of the combine looking to move up for Haskins.

 

[TheCardFan]

Right....so draft a guy to replace him and spend decent money on that player too.

I think their plan is actually more like what NE does....don't spend and instead have really good depth.

If they are trading up it's for Murray.

I think its get younger and build a strong team for the long haul. They wouldn't have been able to do that with Mack getting 23m/year for 11 sacks per season. He is amazing...don't get me wrong.

Bosa is going to get the same amount of sacks and cost 8m/year for the next 4 years.

Same with Amari Cooper.

 

[football karma]

I asked them who they liked better, Murray or Haskins. All 3 said Haskins.

no idea on the original premise --

but in fairness: Colts, Giants and Jags all run pretty NFL traditional offenses (especially the later two)- and Haskins checks all NFL conventional wisdom boxes.

i am at about 75% this is the Cards simply creating uncertainty on whats going to happen at #1.

would it be the worst thing for the Giants to conclude that Haskins was all that, and, to ensure they get him, they need to get up to #1, and, were prepared to pay the price to do so?

 

[NittanyCard]

Okay got it.

I was worried you may be basing it on his strong arm, accuracy, and being able to handle the moment.

I think I may watch a bit more OSU football than you. But, please, tell me his deficiencies that make him "trash".

I'll help you. He has two weaker points(I wouldn't call them deficiencies), he is not the most athletic QB but still a good athlete. And, at times, his footwork gets out of kilter when pressured. But so does about every young QB and that got better as the year wore on and will continue to improve over time.

Remember this and how you think he's worthy of his position in the draft.

And would gladly drop a top 10 pick on this quarterback with no weak points except footwork and mobility.

I'll be here thinking I told you so.

 

[Southpaw]

I think it's the Raiders that want Murray.

Hope so.

In all of the previous years Big 12 QBs were discounted because of the piss poor defense ( seemingly) played there. Why is this year so different?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Hope so.

In all of the previous years Big 12 QBs were discounted because of the piss poor defense ( seemingly) played there. Why is this year so different?

That's one of the reasons I think evaluating the Oklahoma vs Alabama game is so important.

That is a representation of Murray vs an NFL defense. It was ugly. Murray made plays once the game was well out of reach. He made unforced bad throws at times. A lot of the things the pro-Murray crowd level against Rosen, you saw Murray do in this game.

 

[PACardsFan]

That's one of the reasons I think evaluating the Oklahoma vs Alabama game is so important.

That is a representation of Murray vs an NFL defense. It was ugly. Murray made plays once the game was well out of reach. He made unforced bad throws at times. A lot of the things the pro-Murray crowd level against Rosen, you saw Murray do in this game.

OU played horrible in the 1st quarter, then outplayed Alabama the rest of the way. Murray threw for over 300 yds & ran for over 100. So, if Alabama represents what he would see in the NFL, then over 400 yds in 3 quarters would be pretty damn good. Also had 0 turnovers!

 

[Krangodnzr]

OU played horrible in the 1st quarter, then outplayed Alabama the rest of the way. Murray threw for over 300 yds & ran for over 100. So, if Alabama represents what he would see in the NFL, then over 400 yds in 3 quarters would be pretty damn good. Also had 0 turnovers!

That's not quite true; Alabama kicked Oklahoma's ass hardcore.

Murray completed around 50% of his passes. Murray padded stats and never really threatened Alabama much.

I've watched every throw and Murray was a big reason they lost.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Tua and the Alabama defense we're the stars of the game.

24/27 passing. Murray 19/37...sacked 3 times. A bunch of his incompletions were straight up bad throws.

 

[slanidrac16]

Tua and the Alabama defense we're the stars of the game.

24/27 passing. Murray 19/37...sacked 3 times. A bunch of his incompletions were straight up bad throws.

Wait. How could Murray possibly be sacked? He is the fastest my on the field...maybe on the planet...or universe.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Wait. How could Murray possibly be sacked? He is the fastest my on the field...maybe on the planet...or universe.

He wasn't just sacked, he was shell shocked.

Biggest game of his life and he fell apart for a good chunk of it.

 

[slanidrac16]

He wasn't just sacked, he was shell shocked.

Biggest game of his life and he fell apart for a good chunk of it.

Back on the Rosen wagon???

 

[Krangodnzr]

Back on the Rosen wagon???

On the fence.

Murray can be a really good quarterback, but he obviously doesn't walk on water like some claim.

And Rosen isn't awful, even though he played like doo-doo last year.

The best scenario is actually a trade down for a buttload of picks.

 

[slanidrac16]

On the fence.

Murray can be a really good quarterback, but he obviously doesn't walk on water like some claim.

And Rosen isn't awful, even though he played like doo-doo last year.

The best scenario is actually a trade down for a buttload of picks.

I think the best trade if it’s inevitable would be with Washington. Rosen for their 1st (15) and either Keenum or their 3rd round (65).trust me I’m not enamoured with Keenum . It’s just he knows the system and would be a great mentor. Would be a failsafe in Murray was to bust or get crushed by the middle of the first game.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

That's not quite true; Alabama kicked Oklahoma's ass hardcore.

Murray completed around 50% of his passes. Murray padded stats and never really threatened Alabama much.

I've watched every throw and Murray was a big reason they lost.

1st bolded part is debatable. AL won by eleven, and did not cover the 14 point spread set by Vegas. However, after watching the game a couple of times, I get the feeling that AL could have scored 80 points if they had needed to. Tua and company vs. OU's defense was embarrassing. Really, really embarrassing. Shocking and disgraceful.

And so I disagree with the 2nd bolded part. I would say OU lost primarily because of its defense.

OU's offense, carried by Murray (carried I say!), closed to within two scores several times during the 2nd half. But each time that happened, OU's defense then quickly surrendered another touchdown. Murray tired to lead his team back into that game, gave it everything he had. But OU's defense was having none of it.

Look, if someone wants to say that AL's defense let down after it was 28-0, of course I won't argue. That was Murray's worst game of the year, and that performance, standing alone, would not warrant him being selected with the first pick #1 of the draft.

But again, I believe that game was an outlier. Not representative of his actual ability.

 

[GatorAZ]

He wasn't just sacked, he was shell shocked.

Biggest game of his life and he fell apart for a good chunk of it.

The entire team was unprepared and shellshocked. They looked like the OU team that played in the 05’ Orange Bowl vs USC. Nothing personal @Crimson Warrior.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

The entire team was unprepared and shellshocked. They looked like the OU team that played in the 05’ Orange Bowl vs USC. Nothing personal @Crimson Warrior.

Actually, I think your 100% correct GatorAZ. OU came out horribly flat, and AL just crushed them in that first quarter. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. It was truly a nightmare.

 

[AZCrazy]

If the Raiders want to move up to take Murray, we get rich. Trade down to 4, pick up an additional 1st.
This leaves the Giants and the Broncos, two teams desperate right now for a quarterback, wanting to move up a few spots because Haskins is still there all by himself as the lone starter quality QB available when we come up at 4. (Bosa and Williams will go next). Move down to 7 or 10, and now we're swimming in picks. Bosa would be a great add for us, but we've already got Jones, and in exchange for Bosa we would get two firsts and at least two seconds this year. OT/WR/CB/TE all solved problems, or something of the sort.

 

[PACardsFan]

That's not quite true; Alabama kicked Oklahoma's ass hardcore.

Murray completed around 50% of his passes. Murray padded stats and never really threatened Alabama much.

I've watched every throw and Murray was a big reason they lost.

Sorry, I disagree. 425 yards of offense is hardly padding your stats. Other than the 1st quarter, OU moved the ball at will.

 

[bojack]

Remember this and how you think he's worthy of his position in the draft.

And would gladly drop a top 10 pick on this quarterback with no weak points except footwork and mobility.

I'll be here thinking I told you so.

Spot on... Only very mobile QBs have won a super bowl or became a franchise QB in the NFL.

 

[GatorAZ]

If the Raiders want to move up to take Murray, we get rich. Trade down to 4, pick up an additional 1st.
This leaves the Giants and the Broncos, two teams desperate right now for a quarterback, wanting to move up a few spots because Haskins is still there all by himself as the lone starter quality QB available when we come up at 4. (Bosa and Williams will go next). Move down to 7 or 10, and now we're swimming in picks. Bosa would be a great add for us, but we've already got Jones, and in exchange for Bosa we would get two firsts and at least two seconds this year. OT/WR/CB/TE all solved problems, or something of the sort.

People thinking Jon Gruden will draft Kyler Murray are reading way too much into pre-draft comments.

 

[AZCrazy]

He probably won't. It's just the best case scenario for us.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

That's not quite true; Alabama kicked Oklahoma's ass hardcore.

Murray completed around 50% of his passes. Murray padded stats and never really threatened Alabama much.

I've watched every throw and Murray was a big reason they lost.

This. Alabama killed them. Game was over. I think they coasted the second half when Murray padded his stats.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If the Raiders want to move up to take Murray, we get rich. Trade down to 4, pick up an additional 1st.
This leaves the Giants and the Broncos, two teams desperate right now for a quarterback, wanting to move up a few spots because Haskins is still there all by himself as the lone starter quality QB available when we come up at 4. (Bosa and Williams will go next). Move down to 7 or 10, and now we're swimming in picks. Bosa would be a great add for us, but we've already got Jones, and in exchange for Bosa we would get two firsts and at least two seconds this year. OT/WR/CB/TE all solved problems, or something of the sort.

I want more than two 1sts.

My ideal scenarios:

1) Stay at #1 and take Bosa. Franchise Pass Rusher. High upside.

2) Trade down in the top ten. At least two 1sts. Would only do it for probably a combo of 4 picks total, if not 5 picks.

3) Trade Rosen for at least one 1st round pick...ideally 1st and third. Draft Murray. Use other 1st on pass Rusher.

 

[swagron]

If the Raiders want to move up to take Murray, we get rich. Trade down to 4, pick up an additional 1st.
This leaves the Giants and the Broncos, two teams desperate right now for a quarterback, wanting to move up a few spots because Haskins is still there all by himself as the lone starter quality QB available when we come up at 4. (Bosa and Williams will go next). Move down to 7 or 10, and now we're swimming in picks. Bosa would be a great add for us, but we've already got Jones, and in exchange for Bosa we would get two firsts and at least two seconds this year. OT/WR/CB/TE all solved problems, or something of the sort.

After the Raiders signed AB, I can’t see the Raiders trading up to draft and pair the midget with him. That would negate the positives of trading for AB.