Arizona Basketball 2017-18'

[Russ Smith]

Howland also missed the tournament 4 times in 11 years, had two losing seasons, less conference championships, and an inferior winning percentage both OOC and within the conference. They also have the same amount of final 8 appearances. Howland was just 3-0 in those games while Miller is 0-3 by a combined 10 points.

An aside. Before the ASU loss last night Pac 12 was running the replay of UCLA's win over Gonzaga, What I remember from that year was being surprised UCLA made the championship game, I just didn't think the team was that good.

Watching it now, they were stacked, 5 guys in that game for UCLA had long NBA careers, 2 of the bench guys played overseas for years, and Mata Real did in Mexico. Florida had a great starting 5 but that UCLA team was stacked 2 years in a row and then had the Love and Westbrook duo with Collison and Luc the next year. Howland really should have won a title one of those years, especially the Memphis loss,Memphis had the best player in Rose, (at the time) but that UCLA team was loaded.

The comparison Miller to Howland would be in that after those 3 losses, Howland changed recruiting thinking he needed better offensive players and higher rated recruits. His problem was he couldn't convince those types of players to play for him, recruiting suffered, and the defense on the teams fell off a cliff.

Miller made that change a couple of years ago both to try and get to the Final Four, and because the landscape in the West changed. His pipeline to the Soldiers wasn't good anymore because the Soldiers weren't getting the best players, Compton Magic was and UCLA had the pipeline there via Grace. So Miller went national and started recruiting some of the kids he has now, higher rated, but with baggage.

My biggest concern with the last years of Howland was he was going to put UCLA on probation trying to land those big recruits, and of course now Arizona may be headed down that road because of Book. I don't think Miller has the burned bridges issue Howland had, I don't think AAu coaches hate him, but he does have the black cloud of the FBI hanging over him right now until that's resolved, it's tougher for him to get elite kids.

 

[GatorAZ]

Thank you UCLA for kicking our asses, causing a player only meeting and absolving of the personal BS. Looking good to win the Pac as of now.

@OSU
@ORE
STAN
CAL

 

[TJ]

Three Top-25 Ws on the resume now. Team is finally starting to show chemistry. I thought we were doomed after the 31-6 ASU run, but this team found another gear and motored forward, especially in that environment.

 

[TJ]

Welp.....season over

 

[Cheesebeef]

Welp.....season over

what happened?

 

[TJ]

what happened?

Trier busted for PEDs again

 

[82CardsGrad]

what happened?

Trier tested positive for a banned substance... again!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Trier busted for PEDs again

jeebus.

will be interesting to see if Ayton can carry them anywhere and if Miller adjusts his offensive gameplan to feature him more.

so much promise going into the year... what a bust of a season this has been.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

so much promise going into the year... what a bust of a season this has been.

Just stop.

 

[Russ Smith]

jeebus.

will be interesting to see if Ayton can carry them anywhere and if Miller adjusts his offensive gameplan to feature him more.

so much promise going into the year... what a bust of a season this has been.

Arizona is appealing it they're claiming it's the same substance as last year, in "infinitesimal trace amounts" and they think it's from the positive test last year that "the NCAA agreed with and reinstated him." So Trier and Arizona are claiming he didn't take a banned substance again it just magically showed up in his system again 13 months and 1 day after he was cleared by a drug test last year. I'm no expert but it seems highly unlikely a guy could test clean multiple times over the last 13 months(Miller told us last year that Trier would be regularly tested for the duration of his college career as part of the agreement with the NCAA) and then test positive for the same thing and have it be due to something he allegedly took like 18 months ago?

I didn't believe Trier last year I think he used something like HGH to lean out and got caught and used the car accident as a cover story.

I would say now though you really have to wonder could he possibly be stupid enough to have done it again knowing he was going to be tested?

 

[GatorAZ]

Who said it was a "minuscule amount"? The NCAA or Arizona?

 

[TJ]

Who said it was a "minuscule amount"? The NCAA or Arizona?

Arizona.

Whether or not this is a leftover from last season, the NCAA appeal might not happen in time for the tournament, and even then, he'd have to test under the threshold, which is no guarantee at this point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just stop.

What? I was super excited going into a Wildcats basketball Season for the first time in forever and I’m not allowed to be disappointed?

Is this the way you saw this season going at the beginning?

 

[GatorAZ]

Arizona.

Whether or not this is a leftover from last season, the NCAA appeal might not happen in time for the tournament, and even then, he'd have to test under the threshold, which is no guarantee at this point.

On the radio I thought I heard that being quoted from the NCAA which i thought was odd wording from a suspension statement. If this substance keeps popping up he may have trouble passing tests for the near future in the NBA too.

 

[TJ]

For whatever the hell it's worth:

"Ostarine can be stored in fatty tissues for a long time, and tests can be negative but then later be positive as the substance comes out. The medical evidence also shows that the reappearance of a trace amount in his system now creates absolutely zero competitive advantage. "

 

[Russ Smith]

For whatever the hell it's worth:

"Ostarine can be stored in fatty tissues for a long time, and tests can be negative but then later be positive as the substance comes out. The medical evidence also shows that the reappearance of a trace amount in his system now creates absolutely zero competitive advantage. "

FWIW I don't think the NCAA ever actually bought the original excuse, which was that his stepfather mixed Ostarine into his drink and he drank it not knowing it was there. The stepfather was trying to help him recover from his car accident. I mean where is the logic in giving a kid that to recover from a car accident? I googled it, it was originally developed by Merck to help treat patients with osteoporosis or muscle wasting. I think we can all agree that a 20 year old Trier recovering from a car accident did not have either muscle wasting or osteoporosis?

The PED use for it is to increase muscle gain and lose body fat, or as most say, lean out, which is precisely what Trier did between his freshman and soph year, lean out. So he took this stuff, tested positive, created this silly story, and the NCAA reinstated him, but stipulated as part of it, he has to test completely clean. It took a few months but he finally tested clean last January 2017, and now 13 months later he either was stupid enough to take it again, or he tested positive again and under the original terms, he's ineligible again because he is no longer testing clean.

So while it's likely very true there's no longer any competitive advantage to it, I don't think that was ever the point of the NCAA, they simply devised a punishment that was going to make an example out of Trier so other guys who used PED's to lean out would stop doing it.

 

[TJ]

FWIW I don't think the NCAA ever actually bought the original excuse, which was that his stepfather mixed Ostarine into his drink and he drank it not knowing it was there. The stepfather was trying to help him recover from his car accident. I mean where is the logic in giving a kid that to recover from a car accident? I googled it, it was originally developed by Merck to help treat patients with osteoporosis or muscle wasting. I think we can all agree that a 20 year old Trier recovering from a car accident did not have either muscle wasting or osteoporosis?

The PED use for it is to increase muscle gain and lose body fat, or as most say, lean out, which is precisely what Trier did between his freshman and soph year, lean out. So he took this stuff, tested positive, created this silly story, and the NCAA reinstated him, but stipulated as part of it, he has to test completely clean. It took a few months but he finally tested clean last January 2017, and now 13 months later he either was stupid enough to take it again, or he tested positive again and under the original terms, he's ineligible again because he is no longer testing clean.

So while it's likely very true there's no longer any competitive advantage to it, I don't think that was ever the point of the NCAA, they simply devised a punishment that was going to make an example out of Trier so other guys who used PED's to lean out would stop doing it.

Well, the NCAA bought it enough to decide an appeal in favor of Trier, so they must've bought something.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, the NCAA bought it enough to decide an appeal in favor of Trier, so they must've bought something.

They reinstated him but made him sit out half the season waiting for it to be out of his system completely.

If they believed his story and thought the it's not giving him any benefit thing mattered, they would have reinstated him way earlier last year.

IMO they knew he was doping to lean out, and they used him as an example to other NCAA athletes, don't use PED's.

 

[TJ]

They reinstated him but made him sit out half the season waiting for it to be out of his system completely.

If they believed his story and thought the it's not giving him any benefit thing mattered, they would have reinstated him way earlier last year.

IMO they knew he was doping to lean out, and they used him as an example to other NCAA athletes, don't use PED's.

Or, they could've upheld the suspension altogether, which would prove your point even more.

 

[GatorAZ]

Doesn't matter at this point. He's done.

Maybe he'll sue them later but he needs to worry about this affecting his pro career.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

What? I was super excited going into a Wildcats basketball Season for the first time in forever and I’m not allowed to be disappointed?

Is this the way you saw this season going at the beginning?

Season isn't over.

I just find it funny how you continually discredit Miller as a coach because of a perceived lack of Tournament success then say a season is a bust (despite winning the Pac-12 and likely being a top 4 seed of course) before the Tournament has even started. I guess it's the hot take sports society we live in.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Season isn't over.

I just find it funny how you continually discredit Miller as a coach because of a perceived lack of Tournament success then say a season is a bust (despite winning the Pac-12 and likely being a top 4 seed of course) before the Tournament has even started. I guess it's the hot take sports society we live in.

You realize I didn't say "season's over". That was TJ. I actually said I was interested to see how Miller adjusts and how Ayton handles it.

I find it funny how people can say that a coach... who continually gets a great recruiting class... but has never been to the Final Four, much less a Final, much less a title... is great.

And you say "perceived lack of Tourney Success"... is it really? maybe we just view tourney success differently. i mean, you talk about "Tourney success"... but then you bring up things that happened in the regular season. No doubt... Miller has great regular season success. But with great recruiting classes, high seeds year after year and not getting to the Final Four 4 at least ONCE in 8 YEARS is a massive a problem for me.

I won't lie... I hate his style of play. I loved the old Cats teams with incredible guard play... some of which would break my heart with back to back atrocious losses to ETSU (that team is still probably hitting threes against us) and Santa Clara. I used to pen in the Cats as my Final Winner from 1991-1995 (probably stopped right when we went on that incredible run taking down that monster Jayhawks squad on the way to beating college basketball royalty in Kansas, UNC and Kentucky for the title). And yes, there were years they royally pissed me off (losing in the Elite 8 the next year to freaking Utah)... but I still got SOME great moments AND a really fun team to watch year in year out. Miller's team give me neither. They don't play an exciting brand of ball AND they don't come up with huge post-season moments (outside of that great sweet sixteen game thrashing Duke with Derrick Williams). That Duke game was the only time I've ever seen a Miller go in as a dog and really surprise a higher seed and I've seen too many times them losing to a lower seed.

That's not a hot take. I've watched 8 years of this and they've lost me and I ain't happy about that.

I just expect more from the Cats. Sorry if that makes you bristle, but it is what it is.

 

[GatorAZ]

FWIW 97Cats feels this is Miller's last season and it's not being fired. He thinks Miller will leave by his own accord.

#PeteCarroll

 

[Russ Smith]

Or, they could've upheld the suspension altogether, which would prove your point even more.

Simple question do you believe his story of what happened or not?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Simple question do you believe his story of what happened or not?

Better question... if you heard that story coming from a player on Duke, UCLA or UNC, would you buy it?