Arizona Basketball 2017-18'

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bad loss.

 

[TJ]

Bad loss.

Is what it is. Not too upset, tbh. Seems like this team needed a wake up call.

I will say, it's pretty irresponsible of the conference to have a Thursday night game in Utah and then turnaround to play a Saturday noon game in Boulder. The Mountain road trip is rough as it is due to the elevation, but to do that to the road team is a dick move.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Is what it is. Not too upset, tbh. Seems like this team needed a wake up call.

I will say, it's pretty irresponsible of the conference to have a Thursday night game in Utah and then turnaround to play a Saturday noon game in Boulder. The Mountain road trip is rough as it is due to the elevation, but to do that to the road team is a dick move.

ASU played Thursday night in Boulder and plays tomorrow in Utah...

 

[Russ Smith]

Remember when UA hired Romar there was speculation part of it was for him to be a go between with the players and Miller because they thought Miller's personality wore on the players? Will be an interesting test now, Romar is very close to Trier and if you watched the game today Trier pretty clearly checked out after Miller lit him up in the first half for jacking up a long 3 when it looked like he could have easily driven in closer.

I think he took maybe 3-4 shots the last 30 minutes of the game, one of those was that fast break where he lost his footing took 4 steps without a walk call and as he was falling down flipped the ball up and it went in.

Crazy year in the conference, not a single unbeaten team left and nobody has played more than 4 games.

I continue to marvel at how good Ayton is on offense. back to back trips he gets the ball at the high post in the zone, first time he calmly drills a 15 footer, the next time he fakes does a modified dream shake from about 15 feet away gets all the way to the rim and lays it in. I immediately said walk watching it live and they showed the replay and he did NOT walk, totally clean play he's just so long that he got to the rim from the foul line on a reverse pivot move without walking. His defense seems to be getting better too.

 

[GatorAZ]

Remember when UA hired Romar there was speculation part of it was for him to be a go between with the players and Miller because they thought Miller's personality wore on the players? Will be an interesting test now, Romar is very close to Trier and if you watched the game today Trier pretty clearly checked out after Miller lit him up in the first half for jacking up a long 3 when it looked like he could have easily driven in closer.

I think he took maybe 3-4 shots the last 30 minutes of the game, one of those was that fast break where he lost his footing took 4 steps without a walk call and as he was falling down flipped the ball up and it went in.

Crazy year in the conference, not a single unbeaten team left and nobody has played more than 4 games.

I continue to marvel at how good Ayton is on offense. back to back trips he gets the ball at the high post in the zone, first time he calmly drills a 15 footer, the next time he fakes does a modified dream shake from about 15 feet away gets all the way to the rim and lays it in. I immediately said walk watching it live and they showed the replay and he did NOT walk, totally clean play he's just so long that he got to the rim from the foul line on a reverse pivot move without walking. His defense seems to be getting better too.

Trier pouts without pouting the same way Kobe used to by being passive. I wondered before the season how he'd handle Ayton being the man but he chose to come back anyway. As hot as he can get I'm ready for him to move on. They just don't make an impact if the ball isn't going thru the hoop. Rawle plays with energy regardless of his offense.

It doesn't help when PJC looks like DIII player out there either. Brandon Williams is apparently balling out this year.

 

[Russ Smith]

Trier pouts without pouting the same way Kobe used to by being passive. I wondered before the season how he'd handle Ayton being the man but he chose to come back anyway. As hot as he can get I'm ready for him to move on. They just don't make an impact if the ball isn't going thru the hoop. Rawle plays with energy regardless of his offense.

It doesn't help when PJC looks like DIII player out there either. Brandon Williams is apparently balling out this year.

I almost said today Trier reminded me of one of Kobe's you think I'm a ball hog ok I won't shoot at all I'll show you games.



Last year Kobi Simmons went into a funk when Trier came back, this year it kind of seems like Trier is doing it since Alkins came back. He was really good against ASU I guess but he had a terrible trip to the Mountains, 15 points in the 2 games combined.

UA has 3 future pros in the starting lineup a high lottery Ayton, and Alkins and Trier are both borderline first rounders, but there just doesn't seem to be chemistry right now. i agree on PJC btw, 2 points 0-6 with Colorado openly daring him to shoot the whole game. He got 8 assists but half of those were tossing the ball up to Ayton who turned around and made a jumpshot. You don't need him to be a big scorer but he can't let teams just flat out not guard him.

It's still easily the most talented team Miller has ever had, he just has to figure out how to get them to play together.

personally I think he ought to go the Duke route the year Coach K played Winslow at the 4, he should bring Ristic off the bench and play Alkins, Trier, PJC and I guess Smith or Randolph. Should help the defense and Ayton can get all the rebounds. There are not a lot of college 4's that Alkins can't guard

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

.

personally I think he ought to go the Duke route the year Coach K played Winslow at the 4, he should bring Ristic off the bench and play Alkins, Trier, PJC and I guess Smith or Randolph. Should help the defense and Ayton can get all the rebounds. There are not a lot of college 4's that Alkins can't guard

Agree

 

[Russ Smith]

Clearly I'm not the only one wondering if Sean Miller's personality is not meshing with this team, since he went on live tv after the game and said I can't get this team to play hard for me, I can't get them to buy in and play. If they don't do it we're going to keep getting out butts kicked.

The thing is, that's what I've always said about calipari, I don't think he's a good X and O coach by any stretch but he's REALLY good at getting a team of mostly freshmen 5 star mercenaries who all think they're 1 and dones, to play hard, and play together.

Miller's roster this year is by far the best roster he's had, but it's very much a Calipari type roster, very few team guys, PJC, Alkins, and Pinder who he barely plays those are the guys that really dig in and play hard consistently. I think Miller is getting Ayton to play harder but not consistently yet. These are not the type of kids he got at Xavier, they're not the types of kids he got early on at Arizona. He had this issue with Stanley Johnson, he had this issue with Kobi Simmons, and now he's having it with Trier and others, it's not coincidence, those kids are not easy to coach. Calipari is really good at it, even Coach K at Duke is finding out that this year it's hard to get certain types of kids to buy in and play hard consistently.

He's still got time to get it out of them but that's really the challenge for him, find a rotation that he can get to play harder on defense, it's why I htink he needs to go small and bring Ristic off the bench

 

[GatorAZ]

Clearly I'm not the only one wondering if Sean Miller's personality is not meshing with this team, since he went on live tv after the game and said I can't get this team to play hard for me, I can't get them to buy in and play. If they don't do it we're going to keep getting out butts kicked.

He's starting to sound like a joke. You can't turn bad defenders into good defenders but you can at least try something different when everyone and their mother sees the exact same combination of players failing. A top-5 paid HC can't be unwilling to adjust. He's turning into Howland w/o the results in March,

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Clearly I'm not the only one wondering if Sean Miller's personality is not meshing with this team, since he went on live tv after the game and said I can't get this team to play hard for me, I can't get them to buy in and play. If they don't do it we're going to keep getting out butts kicked.

The thing is, that's what I've always said about calipari, I don't think he's a good X and O coach by any stretch but he's REALLY good at getting a team of mostly freshmen 5 star mercenaries who all think they're 1 and dones, to play hard, and play together.

Miller's roster this year is by far the best roster he's had, but it's very much a Calipari type roster, very few team guys, PJC, Alkins, and Pinder who he barely plays those are the guys that really dig in and play hard consistently. I think Miller is getting Ayton to play harder but not consistently yet. These are not the type of kids he got at Xavier, they're not the types of kids he got early on at Arizona. He had this issue with Stanley Johnson, he had this issue with Kobi Simmons, and now he's having it with Trier and others, it's not coincidence, those kids are not easy to coach. Calipari is really good at it, even Coach K at Duke is finding out that this year it's hard to get certain types of kids to buy in and play hard consistently.

He's still got time to get it out of them but that's really the challenge for him, find a rotation that he can get to play harder on defense, it's why I htink he needs to go small and bring Ristic off the bench

I didn’t see or hear the quotes but I read them. And in reading them it comes off like he’s just losing it. Who makes these comments about kids in the press and expects to get them back? I don’t get this tactic at all.

I’m happy that Miller resurrected the program, and he’s brought in excellent talent, but with his failures to reach a final four and this confounding season and his comments I’m losing confidence in him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Is what it is. Not too upset, tbh. Seems like this team needed a wake up call.

I will say, it's pretty irresponsible of the conference to have a Thursday night game in Utah and then turnaround to play a Saturday noon game in Boulder. The Mountain road trip is rough as it is due to the elevation, but to do that to the road team is a dick move.

this team STILL needs wake-up calls after their disastrous start? That doesn't say much for where these guys' heads are at.

 

[Russ Smith]

He's starting to sound like a joke. You can't turn bad defenders into good defenders but you can at least try something different when everyone and their mother sees the exact same combination of players failing. A top-5 paid HC can't be unwilling to adjust. He's turning into Howland w/o the results in March,

They have actually played a bit of zone this year but not much and yeah he hasn't yet tried the obvious which is breaking up the twin towers to see if the defense gets better.

Ayton plays 32 MPG so that means just by bringing Ristic off the bench you can give him the 8 minutes of backup 5, and work in the rest.

If you really look at the stats, your best defensive player is the kid I've been talking about for 2 years, Keanu Pinder. he's not very good on offense but he rebounds, blocks shots and he's where he's supposed to be on defense. So you don't even have to go to the radical 4 guard lineup I suggested, simply by starting Pinder over Ristic you can improve the defense and you can still play Ristic close to the 24 minutes he plays now. He's a very good offensive player(not yesterday) but he's terrible on defense and playing with Ayton it's just really exposing the inside because Ayton is usually the guy playing outside.

Pinder is certainly not a great player but he's about the last kid on the roster you're going to accuse of not playing hard.

 

[Russ Smith]

I didn’t see or hear the quotes but I read them. And in reading them it comes off like he’s just losing it. Who makes these comments about kids in the press and expects to get them back? I don’t get this tactic at all.

I’m happy that Miller resurrected the program, and he’s brought in excellent talent, but with his failures to reach a final four and this confounding season and his comments I’m losing confidence in him.

I really think Miller is in a learning curve, really the only 2 coaches in the country who are used to coaching this type of roster are Calipari and Coach K and they've both had teams like this Arizona one that on paper look unbeatable but they struggle because they don't play consistently hard on defense or play together at times.

Miller is a defensive coach, he's got one of his better offensive teams and weaker defensive teams and I think he's just not sure what to do about it. This is not a team you can yell at to make it better on defense, he's done a nice job with Ayton he's clearly improving, but the rest of the freshmen are struggling when he desperately needs them for depth, and it sure looks like he has an issue with Trier that needs to be resolved.

This is a big reason they brought Romar in it will be interesting to see if that works or not.

 

[overseascardfan]

I really think Miller is in a learning curve, really the only 2 coaches in the country who are used to coaching this type of roster are Calipari and Coach K and they've both had teams like this Arizona one that on paper look unbeatable but they struggle because they don't play consistently hard on defense or play together at times.

Miller is a defensive coach, he's got one of his better offensive teams and weaker defensive teams and I think he's just not sure what to do about it. This is not a team you can yell at to make it better on defense, he's done a nice job with Ayton he's clearly improving, but the rest of the freshmen are struggling when he desperately needs them for depth, and it sure looks like he has an issue with Trier that needs to be resolved.

This is a big reason they brought Romar in it will be interesting to see if that works or not.

I think a successful college model is a system that has experienced guards who can shoot and obviously play good team defense. KAN has always been good because they usually have 3 good upperclassman guards who carry the offense and their team defense is strong. There are other teams of course that are successful because they have little turnaround on a yearly basis other than graduation (VILL, WICH, CREI, WISC). The one and done kids usually are looking to use that one year as a campaign trail to become the #1 pick in the draft. Unless you have a true elite player that would be an impact player in the NBA straight out of HS then winning a NC with a roster full of 5 star guys isn't always a guarantee.

Maybe Miller needs to focus on guys he feels will buy into his system instead of trying to be a KEN or DUKE. Bring in guys you know are 3 year players and maybe one elite one and done guy who will make an immediate impact.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think a successful college model is a system that has experienced guards who can shoot and obviously play good team defense. KAN has always been good because they usually have 3 good upperclassman guards who carry the offense and their team defense is strong. There are other teams of course that are successful because they have little turnaround on a yearly basis other than graduation (VILL, WICH, CREI, WISC). The one and done kids usually are looking to use that one year as a campaign trail to become the #1 pick in the draft. Unless you have a true elite player that would be an impact player in the NBA straight out of HS then winning a NC with a roster full of 5 star guys isn't always a guarantee.

Maybe Miller needs to focus on guys he feels will buy into his system instead of trying to be a KEN or DUKE. Bring in guys you know are 3 year players and maybe one elite one and done guy who will make an immediate impact.

That's the thing this IS an experienced team. He starts 2 seniors and a junior, and a soph who played lots last year. He only starts 1 freshman and he's his best player.

The problem is the bench is 4 freshmen, a transfer soph, and Pinder. So he desperately needs at least 2 guys off that bench, Smith and Randolph are the obvious ones but they're both hit or miss and neither one plays much defense.

I thought Miller did a very good job coaching last year dealing with Trier's issue and Comanche and some of the other stuff, then the Xavier zone screwed up the year for him. This year I think he's doing one of his worst coaching jobs(to date) since he got to UA. Last years team wasn't exactly coachable either, Simmons, Comanche, Trier, but he did a better job of it last year than he has so far this year.

 

[TJ]

this team STILL needs wake-up calls after their disastrous start? That doesn't say much for where these guys' heads are at.

Did you realistically expect Arizona to buzz through P12 play unscathed? Because we'll be favored in every game we play doesn't mean we'll win each one.

I think the team has mostly moved past the disaster in the Bahamas, but like with all other teams, this team has flaws. Biggest issue is the bench has been disappointing.

We witnessed something like 17 of the Top-25 teams go down at least once this week, and UNC and TAMU got beat twice. I think we're learning that there's not one clear-cut favorite to win it all and that we're in for some surprises come March.

 

[Russ Smith]

Did you realistically expect Arizona to buzz through P12 play unscathed? Because we'll be favored in every game we play doesn't mean we'll win each one.

I think the team has mostly moved past the disaster in the Bahamas, but like with all other teams, this team has flaws. Biggest issue is the bench has been disappointing.

We witnessed something like 17 of the Top-25 teams go down at least once this week, and UNC and TAMU got beat twice. I think we're learning that there's not one clear-cut favorite to win it all and that we're in for some surprises come March.

UA has by far the most talented starting 5 in the conference but yeah the bench is the problem.

This whole conference is nuts right now, ASU barely hung on to get their first win at Utah, USC lost in a stunning halfcourt shot at the buzzer seconds after McLaughlin scored to put them ahead. UCLA is in first place by a half game and I don't know a single UCLA fan who thinks we're any better than possibly 3rd place team. Teams are losing left and right on the road in this conference.

I've felt all year the Pac 12 wasn't going to get lots of teams into the dance this year and I think the start of conference play is just reinforcing that. There's really only 2 teams who are good enough to be considered quality wins if you beat them, Arizona and ASU, it's going to be very tough on the rest of the teams in the conference they're going to need 23-24 wins to get in.

 

[GatorAZ]

UA has by far the most talented starting 5 in the conference but yeah the bench is the problem.

This whole conference is nuts right now, ASU barely hung on to get their first win at Utah, USC lost in a stunning halfcourt shot at the buzzer seconds after McLaughlin scored to put them ahead. UCLA is in first place by a half game and I don't know a single UCLA fan who thinks we're any better than possibly 3rd place team. Teams are losing left and right on the road in this conference.

I've felt all year the Pac 12 wasn't going to get lots of teams into the dance this year and I think the start of conference play is just reinforcing that. There's really only 2 teams who are good enough to be considered quality wins if you beat them, Arizona and ASU, it's going to be very tough on the rest of the teams in the conference they're going to need 23-24 wins to get in.

Enfield on the hot seat after the season?

 

[Russ Smith]

Enfield on the hot seat after the season?

I think he is because of the Bland stuff. If they had a great year USC fans would have been like with Pete Carroll, if you win, we're ok with cheating. But they've massively underachieved, the recruiting class is fallen apart, and they have an 11-6 record with the most talented roster he's had there.

Right now Hurley and Hopkins look like the favorites for Conference COY.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Did you realistically expect Arizona to buzz through P12 play unscathed? Because we'll be favored in every game we play doesn't mean we'll win each one.

I think the team has mostly moved past the disaster in the Bahamas, but like with all other teams, this team has flaws. Biggest issue is the bench has been disappointing.

We witnessed something like 17 of the Top-25 teams go down at least once this week, and UNC and TAMU got beat twice. I think we're learning that there's not one clear-cut favorite to win it all and that we're in for some surprises come March.

Never said anything about them going through unscathed. I just think it’s ridiculous to say an already underachieving team, that under achieved in the tourney last year needs a wake-up call.

 

[Russ Smith]

Never said anything about them going through unscathed. I just think it’s ridiculous to say an already underachieving team, that under achieved in the tourney last year needs a wake-up call.

I actually wonder if he was just mad or if it was calculated. he's good friends with Calipari, the same week Miller blew up on his team, Calipari publicly called his team soft, not tough enough to win. I suspect both coaches don't know how to motivate the kids.

The problem is Miller is who he is and his in your face aggression apparently isn't working on these kids. He said in the offseason he was working on that and apparently that's part of why they hired Romar so it will be interesting to see if he's willing to try something different. The funny thing is most people would have expected Ayton to be the problem since his rep was he didnt' play hard, and he's not a problem at all he's playing much harder than he did in HS, the problem at least in the last game seems to be Trier.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The biggest problem is PJC is terrible. All these other theories make for good sound bites and reads but the point guard is WAC level. There's enough everywhere else where they can overcome that most of the time but some nights it won't be.

 

[TJ]

The biggest problem is PJC is terrible. All these other theories make for good sound bites and reads but the point guard is WAC level. There's enough everywhere else where they can overcome that most of the time but some nights it won't be.

He’s really not that bad. If you want a glaring weakness, it’s lack of contributions from the bench. Randolph should be averaging well over 10 a game, Ira Lee looks out of place most times, and it’s hard to justify playing Barcello or Pinder at any point in a game

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

He’s really not that bad. If you want a glaring weakness, it’s lack of contributions from the bench. Randolph should be averaging well over 10 a game, Ira Lee looks out of place most times, and it’s hard to justify playing Barcello or Pinder at any point in a game

I guess he's decent at making the occasional wide open 3. Other than that there's literally nothing else he's even above average at on the basketball court.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess he's decent at making the occasional wide open 3. Other than that there's literally nothing else he's even above average at on the basketball court.

I think he's a good backup Pac 12 PG but he's starting.

I didn't see any of your game last night and just a bit of the ASU game but it would appear right now Arizona is the best team in the conference and the scary thing for bubble teams, and I still consider UCLA a bubble team, is that with ASU now losing 3 games, we're quickly getting to thepoint where arizona is the only quality win on the schedule for the whole Pac 12. If you're on a bubble you really need ASU to right the ship quickly or you need to go on a long streak yourself because I don't think relying on beating Arizona is going to be a good way for a bubble team to get in.