Arizona Cardinals offseason thread 2022

BritCard

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thinking about trade targets--

one name that checks nearly all the "he should be available" list:

Adam Thielen, Minnesota Vikings.

The pros: excellent route runner, outstanding hands with good size. affordable cap # at $12mm per

the cons: 32 years old. is he an X wr?

I love Thielen. Vikings just restructured him today though so he can stay. He's a local dude so don't think they move him.

Still averaged 55 yards a game last year so he still has juice, and he was never a speed guy so he doesn't have it to lose. Injuries have been a problem the last few years though.
 

BritCard

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Hoping

Could

Agree.

That's how it works with draft picks. Pick a lane.

You can't give draft picks a chance to play AND sign quality vets for the same position.

For years people have argued we don't give them enough playing time and when we do people complain we give them too much playing time.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Stating facts is taking shots? LOL
If the fact is that the rams aren’t perfect I don’t know what the point is. Because if that’s the case it’s an awful argument.

Perfect should never be the benchmark for anything other than rocket engineers. Literally no one expects perfection in sports. Even the beat organization over any span of time - the patriots - were never perfect. So again using perfect as a benchmark is not only the hyperbolest of hyperboles, but just awful argumentation.

But using the super bowl champions - you know the pinnacle of the industry - is a pretty valid benchmark for teams aspiring to win a championship. So comparing what the cardinals do to the rams is a rock solid benchmark. Comparing anyone to perfect is . . . well . . . kinda dumb, no?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Kirk can be somewhat replaced by Moore. That's not a stretch to think that can happen.

Edmonds is a decent player....there are tons of decent players in the NFL. A combo of Eno and Ward could replace him, or a later draft pick.

Jones is the one that is tougher to replace.

And then where I don't like this off-season is the overall loss of production. That usually doesn't work out well.
A lot of “coulds” there and we both know in the nfl the “coulds” are much more often than not “don’ts.”

And if we somewhat replace kirk with Moore who replaces moore’s production on the current roster (because that’s what we are talking about - the roster as currently constructed)? Mind you kirk and Moore combined for 131 catches for 1,417 yards and 87 rushing yards. So you’re hoping for an all pro season from Moore?

And I think you may be in a very lonely group of people that give an eno/ward combo more than a 10% chance of adequately replacing Edmonds 903 combined rushing/receiving yards at 5.1 yards a carry and 43 catches. Eno/ward combined for 231 yards at 3.6 yards per carry and 9 catches.

But sure, anything can happen . . .Maxx could explode for 1,000 yards too . .
 

FB94

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Hop will be back, Ertz and Williams should be OK, although not the most athletic group of TEs around. Moore needs to be used better in terms of his route tree. More vertical quick slant routes, double move routes to get up field, use his shiftiness to separate. No more horizontal pass plays. We absolutely need a big fast deep threat that gives the DBs their attention. AJ Green ain’t it.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Kirk - Moore
Hicks - Collins

Don't be one of these people that moans that we don't play our draft picks over crappy vets then also argue we need vets over the draft picks.

AJ Green is apparently easily replaceable according to everyone else here.

The only major loss we need to replace is Chandler.
First, I never moaned that we don’t play draft picks over crappy vets. If you recall all season long I was the one arguing that Collins wasn’t playing because he obviously wasn’t getting the mental side of the game that hicks possessed. So that argument not only falls flat with me, but also shows that unless the lightbulb magically came on for Collins once games and practices were no longer even happening that’s a downgrade on the field until proven otherwise. He literally couldn’t get on the field over Vallejo and walker. So until he proves he’s an upgrade that has to be viewed as a downgrade.

And as I just mentioned, if (and that’s a big if for an unproven player) Moore fills kirk’s shoes, who fills moore’s shoes on the current roster? Dortch? If so, that’s another unproven guy. So you can’t count on either of those happening from the current roster. You can hope, but again more often than not in the NFL hope comes up empty or short.

You conveniently just ignore the loss of Edmonds 900+ yards.

And it’s ironic that you tried (and failed) to catch me in hypocrisy but then try to argue a hypocritical point yourself in saying AJ isn’t a loss when you have been arguing just the opposite all offseason.

So you can’t possibly argue that as things stand TODAY, this team isn’t less talented than at this point last off season.

Hicks to Collins is a downgrade until proven otherwise.

Edmonds is just a pure loss

Chandler is just a pure loss

AJ is just a pure loss

Projecting Moore to cover kirk is a big hope that’s more likely to come up short if not bust

Projecting dortch (or anyone else in the current roster) to backfill moore’s production is also a hope that’s more likely to come up short.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That's how it works with draft picks. Pick a lane.

You can't give draft picks a chance to play AND sign quality vets for the same position.

For years people have argued we don't give them enough playing time and when we do people complain we give them too much playing time.
But that’s not the conversation. The conversation is whether we are more or less talented today than on this day last offseason. So those are all guesses that they’re capable of replicating what we got from the individuals who proved their ability and production the field.
 
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Ronin

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Edge Jadeveon Clowney: Arizona Cardinals
Although Clowney hasn't played a full season since 2017, he's coming off his best statistical campaign since he left the Texans three years ago and could be a major asset to a Cardinals team now desperate for edge-rushing talent.

Clowney recorded nine sacks and generated 32 pressures in 14 games with the Cleveland Browns last season.

The Cardinals only have about $9 million in cap space left and may need to free up more money to ink Clowney.
 

Krangodnzr

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Hoping

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Agree.
If you resigned people all of the time, you'll never get better. Steve Young sat behind Montana for years.

That's an extreme example but the point is sometimes guys step up when given the opportunity.

Edmonds is a nice player, but it's not a stretch to say he could be replaced. He was a role player.

Moore led the league in separation. Regardless of the circumstances, that tells you quite a bit about his ability. One of the biggest complaints about Moore's role was that he ran mostly gimmicky type plays...now we will get to see him run more diverse routes.

And the cost of resigning Kirk approached $20,000,000 per year. That's an insane number for a guy who every season disappeared for long stretches.

Either way, teams HAVE TO move on from players...and relying on free agency historically is actually a lower odds of getting better than relying on your own players.
 

slanidrac16

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If you resigned people all of the time, you'll never get better. Steve Young sat behind Montana for years.

That's an extreme example but the point is sometimes guys step up when given the opportunity.

Edmonds is a nice player, but it's not a stretch to say he could be replaced. He was a role player.

Moore led the league in separation. Regardless of the circumstances, that tells you quite a bit about his ability. One of the biggest complaints about Moore's role was that he ran mostly gimmicky type plays...now we will get to see him run more diverse routes.

And the cost of resigning Kirk approached $20,000,000 per year. That's an insane number for a guy who every season disappeared for long stretches.

Either way, teams HAVE TO move on from players...and relying on free agency historically is actually a lower odds of getting better than relying on your own players.
Agree.
 

Krangodnzr

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A lot of “coulds” there and we both know in the nfl the “coulds” are much more often than not “don’ts.”

And if we somewhat replace kirk with Moore who replaces moore’s production on the current roster (because that’s what we are talking about - the roster as currently constructed)? Mind you kirk and Moore combined for 131 catches for 1,417 yards and 87 rushing yards. So you’re hoping for an all pro season from Moore?

And I think you may be in a very lonely group of people that give an eno/ward combo more than a 10% chance of adequately replacing Edmonds 903 combined rushing/receiving yards at 5.1 yards a carry and 43 catches. Eno/ward combined for 231 yards at 3.6 yards per carry and 9 catches.

But sure, anything can happen . . .Maxx could explode for 1,000 yards too . .
LOL did you read my LAST SENTENCE before you went in to argument mode?

I literally stated that my issue is that the team so far is relying on roster replacements to replace a lot of production.
 

slanidrac16

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That's how it works with draft picks. Pick a lane.

You can't give draft picks a chance to play AND sign quality vets for the same position.

For years people have argued we don't give them enough playing time and when we do people complain we give them too much playing time.
I get that. I also get easing a player into his role but playing a player 4% of the time is ridiculous.
If we were to sign a Wr like Schuester I would feel a whole lot better to not have to hope a Wr is there at 23 or settle for the 3rd or 4th rated Wr left on the board.
Of course if that were to happen we would hear from Keim “ He’s the guy we wanted all along. We had him rates the #1 Wr in the draft” lol.
 

Shane

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I get that. I also get easing a player into his role but playing a player 4% of the time is ridiculous.
If we were to sign a Wr like Schuester I would feel a whole lot better to not have to hope a Wr is there at 23 or settle for the 3rd or 4th rated Wr left on the board.
Of course if that were to happen we would hear from Keim “ He’s the guy we wanted all along. We had him rates the #1 Wr in the draft” lol.
They pretty much all say that
 

BritCard

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A lot of “coulds” there and we both know in the nfl the “coulds” are much more often than not “don’ts.”

And if we somewhat replace kirk with Moore who replaces moore’s production on the current roster (because that’s what we are talking about - the roster as currently constructed)? Mind you kirk and Moore combined for 131 catches for 1,417 yards and 87 rushing yards. So you’re hoping for an all pro season from Moore?

And I think you may be in a very lonely group of people that give an eno/ward combo more than a 10% chance of adequately replacing Edmonds 903 combined rushing/receiving yards at 5.1 yards a carry and 43 catches. Eno/ward combined for 231 yards at 3.6 yards per carry and 9 catches.

But sure, anything can happen . . .Maxx could explode for 1,000 yards too . .

Who said Moore needs an All Pro year? He's WR3 most likely. He needs to get 700-800 yards.
 

football karma

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would really like to know what the plan is generally down at Cards HQ

an offseason of:

yes, we collapsed down the stretch and were blown out in our playoff appearance. Sure our anointed QB1 has made all sorts of noise on social media. The GM and Coach you all have mixed feelings about were extended until 2026... and we watched our all-time leading pass rusher and leading receiver from 2021 leave in free agency....

doesnt exactly sell suites or club seat licenses
 

Shane

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would really like to know what the plan is generally down at Cards HQ

an offseason of:

yes, we collapsed down the stretch and were blown out in our playoff appearance. Sure our anointed QB1 has made all sorts of noise on social media. The GM and Coach you all have mixed feelings about were extended until 2026... and we watched our all-time leading pass rusher and leading receiver from 2021 leave in free agency....

doesnt exactly sell suites or club seat licenses
Majority of those are under contract for a certain number of years anyways not like they care
 

BritCard

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would really like to know what the plan is generally down at Cards HQ

an offseason of:

yes, we collapsed down the stretch and were blown out in our playoff appearance. Sure our anointed QB1 has made all sorts of noise on social media. The GM and Coach you all have mixed feelings about were extended until 2026... and we watched our all-time leading pass rusher and leading receiver from 2021 leave in free agency....

doesnt exactly sell suites or club seat licenses

I can barely think of a deal I think is good value so far that fits our needs.

Allen Robinson and JuJu maybe but they both chose their teams for a reason.

James Daniels is the only other one.
 
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