Arizona Cardinals offseason thread 2022

[RON_IN_OC]

Except he was 7-7 in the playoffs prior to that with 3 Super Bowl trips.

Kyler's name does not belong in any conversation with John Elway.

John Elway's stat line in his 1st Playoff Start: 19/37 51.4% 184 yds 2 tds 2 ints - lost at home to the Steelers 24-17

I wonder if Denver fans crapped all over him at that point? I was only 12, so I don't have any idea.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

John Elway got drafted by a team that was 1 year removed from a 10-6 record in 1981. The 1982 Broncos (strike year) were 2-7 (mainly because of injuries & players who chose not to cross the strike line). So essentially, John Elway was drafted by a playoff team. That is completely the opposite of what Murray’s situation was. Not only was Murray drafted by the worst team in 2018, but by the worst team in Cardinal history. And that’s saying a ton. All that being said, Murray in his first 3 seasons has been significantly better than Elway was in his first 3 seasons.

Uh just making any comparison to delay even dumber by pointing out how few facts were comparable.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

John Elway's stat line in his 1st Playoff Start: 19/37 51.4% 184 yds 2 tds 2 ints - lost at home to the Steelers 24-17

I wonder if Denver fans crapped all over him at that point? I was only 12, so I don't have any idea.

lol. Now do kylers first playoff game.

 

[PACardsFan]

Uh just making any comparison to delay even dumber by pointing out how few facts were comparable.

Dumb? Just facts.

 

[JosiahLee]

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Thanks for posting all these clips.

 

[Garthshort]

Except we haven't won anything.

Dan Marino is considered one of the best NFL QBs, ever and I'm not sure how many Super Bowls he won. Same for Larry Fitzgerald, who is probably considered the second greatest WR, ever.

 

[Garthshort]

John Elway got drafted by a team that was 1 year removed from a 10-6 record in 1981. The 1982 Broncos (strike year) were 2-7 (mainly because of injuries & players who chose not to cross the strike line). So essentially, John Elway was drafted by a playoff team. That is completely the opposite of what Murray’s situation was. Not only was Murray drafted by the worst team in 2018, but by the worst team in Cardinal history. And that’s saying a ton. All that being said, Murray in his first 3 seasons has been significantly better than Elway was in his first 3 seasons.

Why do you confuse us with facts? It's not fair.

 

[Stout]

No one said he doesn’t have to improve. But, so does Rodgers, Mahomes, and Allen.

...who are all much, much better than KM right now. They are top tier. He isn't. He can get there, but he hasn't yet.

 

[Stout]

A lot of moronic comments on this board. But, everyone is entitled to making dumb comments. Just agree to disagree. Not worth the effort to argue anymore, even when you’re factually correct.

Yep, you're going it a lot on this thread lately.

 

[schutd]

Kirk Cousins is no where near is ceiling, even if he doesn't improve any more. Weird comparison.

Stat monster who cant win a meaningful game? Aside from the eye test, that sounds a lot like what we have to date. ANd I tend to agree. WIthout added maturity and a greater worth ethic, we may never see much more from him.

 

[schutd]

He’s 5 wins away from tying Kurt Warner’s Az wins record

How many wins away from tying Kurts career playoff victories?

 

[Vacard]

How many wins away from tying Kurts career playoff victories?

That’s not what I said not implied, stay on topic.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Dumb? Just facts.

That are completely unrelated. Awesome argument.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

by scheming wide open receivers for Kyler to miss or not see?

If Kliff can't teach Kyler to go through progressions, is he really the right guy to be in charge of grooming Kyler into a superstar?

How is the HC more responsible than the QB who is actually playing on the field?

That's part of the problem with Kliff and Kyler being a package deal in the league so far. How much one helps or hurts the other is unknown.

Same for Larry Fitzgerald, who is probably considered the second greatest WR, ever.

Ha, maybe by delusional Cardinals fans. Fitz was the best player in football for one postseason - it's hard to argue that he was the best WR in football at any other time, which makes it hard to argue that he could be the 2nd best of all time.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Better than bad does not equal good. At this point in time, Kyler is the equivalent of Kirk Cousins until he takes another step. Obviously Kyler is a top 16 NFL QB but has not shown to be special in big games.

Kyler is top ten based on metrics. But I agree with the rest of your comments on Kyler: there are tons of plays he's leaving out on the field.

Kliff can't make those plays for Kyler.

 

[kerouac9]

Ha, maybe by delusional Cardinals fans. Fitz was the best player in football for one postseason - it's hard to argue that he was the best WR in football at any other time, which makes it hard to argue that he could be the 2nd best of all time.

Man, I don't know how much profit there is on this board in down-talking Larry Fitzgerald.

IMHO, Fitz has an argument for the THIRD-best WR of all time behind Rice and Randy Moss. The thing that sticks in my craw about Larry (and real football knowers love Larry) is that he has only one first-team All-Pro honor. He played 12 years after that and never was named to the All-Pro team again.

Calvin Johnson was first-team all Pro three times. Andre Johnson has two honors. Randy Moss was 4x, Jerry Rice 10x (GOAT).

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler is top ten based on metrics. But I agree with the rest of your comments on Kyler: there are tons of plays he's leaving out on the field.

Kliff can't make those plays for Kyler.

SOME metrics.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If Kliff can't teach Kyler to go through progressions, is he really the right guy to be in charge of grooming Kyler into a superstar?

Mike Shanahan couldn't teach Griese and Plummer how to go through progressions after Elway retired either.

Kyler HAS gotten better at going through his progressions, but he isn't there yet.

That's part of the problem with Kliff and Kyler being a package deal in the league so far. How much one helps or hurts the other is unknown.

Colt McCoy was playing at a Pro Bowl level for 2/3 games in Kyler's absence. I'd say if you threw another good, more seasoned QB on the Cardinals right now, they wouldn't have some of the issues they would have....but that player won't make the same plays with his feet that Kyler is making either...

Ha, maybe by delusional Cardinals fans. Fitz was the best player in football for one postseason - it's hard to argue that he was the best WR in football at any other time, which makes it hard to argue that he could be the 2nd best of all time.

WRs are rarely the best at their position for more than a season or two, same with any other position. Players are more judged by their longevity.

 

[Krangodnzr]

SOME metrics.

QB Rating (8th), QBR (7th).....and if we want to get silly, PFF Rating.

It's a hard argument not using stats to say Murray isn't in the top ten of NFL QBs.

 

[DVontel]

Man, I don't know how much profit there is on this board in down-talking Larry Fitzgerald.

IMHO, Fitz has an argument for the THIRD-best WR of all time behind Rice and Randy Moss. The thing that sticks in my craw about Larry (and real football knowers love Larry) is that he has only one first-team All-Pro honor. He played 12 years after that and never was named to the All-Pro team again.

Calvin Johnson was first-team all Pro three times. Andre Johnson has two honors. Randy Moss was 4x, Jerry Rice 10x (GOAT).

T.O., Antonio Brown, & Julio Jones were/are better than Larry all-time as well.

 

[kerouac9]

Man, I don't know how much profit there is on this board in down-talking Larry Fitzgerald.

IMHO, Fitz has an argument for the THIRD-best WR of all time behind Rice and Randy Moss. The thing that sticks in my craw about Larry (and real football knowers love Larry) is that he has only one first-team All-Pro honor. He played 12 years after that and never was named to the All-Pro team again.

Calvin Johnson was first-team all Pro three times. Andre Johnson has two honors. Randy Moss was 4x, Jerry Rice 10x (GOAT).

Terrell Owens was 5x all pro. Man, he has the real argument for 3rd best all time. 3rd round pick. Same as Chad Williams.

Let's remember some wideouts.

Isaac Bruce never made an All-Pro Team
Marvin Harrison made 3 All-Pro teams

 

[Krangodnzr]

Terrell Owens was 5x all pro. Man, he has the real argument for 3rd best all time. 3rd round pick. Same as Chad Williams.

Let's remember some wideouts.

Isaac Bruce never made an All-Pro Team
Marvin Harrison made 3 All-Pro teams

One thing that isn't being accounted for though, is that for most of Larry's career he had substantially worse QB play than all the WRs you listed.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Man, I don't know how much profit there is on this board in down-talking Larry Fitzgerald.

IMHO, Fitz has an argument for the THIRD-best WR of all time behind Rice and Randy Moss. The thing that sticks in my craw about Larry (and real football knowers love Larry) is that he has only one first-team All-Pro honor. He played 12 years after that and never was named to the All-Pro team again.

Calvin Johnson was first-team all Pro three times. Andre Johnson has two honors. Randy Moss was 4x, Jerry Rice 10x (GOAT).

Ha, profit is for suckers!

Larry making one first team all pro seems to agree with my point.

I think most years with Larry/Anquan, there was a legit argument to be made who was more important.

Larry was a great receiver, no doubt, but never the transcendent freak that Moss/Megatron/TO were. Longevity and consistency are nice, but no way I'd have Fitz at #2, or probably #3.

 

[kerouac9]

QB Rating (8th), QBR (7th).....and if we want to get silly, PFF Rating.

It's a hard argument not using stats to say Murray isn't in the top ten of NFL QBs.

Yeah, but those are rate stats -- Passer rating and QBR and really close together, and neither is adjusted for defense.

You look at the counting stats and Kyler was 14th (and has yet to pass for 4000 yards, which should be the standard for top passers -- 10 QBs did it last year), 12th in passing TDs, 12th in EPA,

 

[DaHilg]

Yeah, but those are rate stats -- Passer rating and QBR and really close together, and neither is adjusted for defense.

You look at the counting stats and Kyler was 14th (and has yet to pass for 4000 yards, which should be the standard for top passers -- 10 QBs did it last year), 12th in passing TDs, 12th in EPA,

Well he also missed games.. I believe he would have been projected to eclipse those milestones had he not miss games.