Arizona on Dillon watch list

[Russ Smith]

Re: Why Stats are Overrated

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Career stats say otherwise.
Here's the problems with stats.


I have to go back to the old "eyeball theory." I watched Dillon play against us and in a couple of other games. He didn't play very well and it seemed to me that Corey is now in the Back Nine of his career.

Bringing him in to push Damien or Scobey for the #3 RB spot might not be a bad idea if he doesn't cost us more than a late round pick. But otherwise, what's his upside vs. his possible downside (i.e. attitude, falling production)?

The problem with the eyeball theory is if you don't know everythign about the player, you can be wrong. Dillon was off to a nice start, about 4 YPC when he got hurt against cleveland. Missed the Bufalo game, played hurt against the Ravens(18 for 39 yards) sat out the Seattle game than had 7 carries for 5 yards against us, and missed the next game. If you don't know he's hurt yes he looks to be on the downside.

But if you know he's hurt and was playing every other game trying to play through the injury, then you understand the numbers. In his last 6 games he was under 4YPC only once, and over 6 YPC in 3 different games, he averaged 4.5 ypc in November and December after he got healthy. He had a groin injury and it's one of those injuries that takes rest to heal,playing through it results in exactly what Dillon did, play one week, aggravated it and miss the next week.

He's not getting younger but unless this injury is a sign of things to come, last year was more about his injury than his age.

 

[blindseyed]

Get him ,he's still better than Emmitt. No one else seems to care about "personality issues" anymore on other teams.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by swd1974
Heard on espn the phone hasnt rung once for dillon. He is real estate that cant be sold.

We might have a problem with Dillon even wanting to come to AZ. This is always an ongoing problem for our team. Until we can walk the walk good players will go elsewhere given the chance or we will greatly overpay (fat chance) or end up with the players who cannot land a job elsewhere. At this point all we have is a new coach and staff. We have done this before and with the usual results. Until Green can show he can really make a difference on the field we will probably have to upgrade through the draft and somehow not lose our good players when their contracts are up.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by BACH
Two years left on his contract $3.3M this season and $3.85M next season. $3.3M is less than we're paying Emmitt...

How much is Emmitt due if he plays this year?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
How much is Emmitt due if he plays this year?

His deal is supposed to be about 4 million per year, but as a veteran he's an exemption he counts less against the cap than we actually pay him(I think it's like 500K less too).

His deal was never made fully clear it's got stuff in it related to attendance and things like that I believe.

Basically the comment was true, Dillon makes less than Emmitt. I don't see us just cutting Emmitt, but I could see us trading for Dillon and then if he's healthy, trying to trade Shipp. I'd like to pick up Dillon if the price is right, quite frankly I think Emmitt's primary value at this point is leadership and he could do that behind SHipp and Dillon too.

If Dillon is healthy I suspect he'd wind up starting, if not we have Shipp anyways.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Basically the comment was true, Dillon makes less than Emmitt. I don't see us just cutting Emmitt, but I could see us trading for Dillon and then if he's healthy, trying to trade Shipp.

I could see that happening.

 

[Pariah]

Seems to me Dillion is a has a similar running style to Shipp. I'll pass, thanks. If you're hellbent on replacing Shipp (which I am not) it had better be with a guy that has some afterburners.

Shipp is a very solid RB. Let us not speak of this again. It's growing very tiresome.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Pariah
Seems to me Dillion is a has a similar running style to Shipp. I'll pass, thanks. If you're hellbent on replacing Shipp (which I am not) it had better be with a guy that has some afterburners.

Shipp is a very solid RB. Let us not speak of this again. It's growing very tiresome.

But Dillon DOES have speed. Career average of 4.3 on some really bad teams. 54 career runs 20+ yards, in his career he's averaged one 20+ run ever 34.5 attempts, Shipp one every 52.

Even in his last 3 years where injuries have caused him to slip, he's still averaging one 20 + yarder every 46.5 attempts.

He's NOT as good a receiver as Shipp and I agree Shipp is a good RB. My knock on Corey has always been lack of TD's, 45 in his career, high is 10 twice, but then in fairness on bad teams you don't get a lot of TD chances.

He's not Portis(one 20+ run every 23.5 carries) but Dillon if healthy is definitely more of a breakaway threat than Shipp. But he may not be healthy, that's something that has to be discovered before you trade for him.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Pariah
Shipp is a very solid RB. Let us not speak of this again. It's growing very tiresome.

The only knock on Dillon is that he's almost 30. Other than that, he blows Shipp away at RB.

I'm guessing we'll be speaking of this until August.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
His deal is supposed to be about 4 million per year, but as a veteran he's an exemption he counts less against the cap than we actually pay him(I think it's like 500K less too).

His deal was never made fully clear it's got stuff in it related to attendance and things like that I believe.

Basically the comment was true, Dillon makes less than Emmitt. I don't see us just cutting Emmitt, but I could see us trading for Dillon and then if he's healthy, trying to trade Shipp. I'd like to pick up Dillon if the price is right, quite frankly I think Emmitt's primary value at this point is leadership and he could do that behind SHipp and Dillon too.

If Dillon is healthy I suspect he'd wind up starting, if not we have Shipp anyways.

We could use Shipp and Dillon and do without Emmitt. Two good RB's is a real plus as they are the most often injured players on a team and have the shortest NLF playing life. I think it is less than 7 years.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
How much is Emmitt due if he plays this year?

Too much. No matter what it is.

 

[Northern Card]

My sense is that the CARDS org. has decided that Smith's last hurrah will not be the stench of last season.

It's a class act for a class guy, and says something rather important about the Bidwills. They respect good men, the history of the game... and contracts.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by wallyburger
Too much. No matter what it is.

How so?!?

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
How so?!?

I just don't think it was a good choice to bring Emmitt here, in the 1st place. Now it is uncomfortable to say the least. This team needs to grow up and Emmitt seems, to me, to be some other agenda.

 

[Savage58]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
His deal was never made fully clear it's got stuff in it related to attendance and things like that I believe.

Beautiful, I really wish we could get a peek into his contract. And I wouldn't for one second doubt this be true either, we didn't pay him to come here and be a RB, he's here as a mentor and coach.

Regarding Dillon, I agree with Section8, he has way more skill than Shipp, but alas he is almost 30, and has had recent injury worries.

I'll stick with Shipp, who is a stud, maybe he can go to Don Beebe's speed camp?? You'll SEE

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by wallyburger
I just don't think it was a good choice to bring Emmitt here, in the 1st place. Now it is uncomfortable to say the least. This team needs to grow up and Emmitt seems, to me, to be some other agenda.

See, I don't think that is so.

Green has come in and gotten rid of players that he didn't want and put others on notice.

He is on record saying that he hopes Emmitt wants to play here iin 2004. And, obviosuly Green didn't have anything to do with the contract he signed, so he's not covering himself.

 

[HoodieBets]

Originally posted by Savage58
Beautiful, I really wish we could get a peek into his contract. And I wouldn't for one second doubt this be true either, we didn't pay him to come here and be a RB, he's here as a mentor and coach.

Regarding Dillon, I agree with Section8, he has way more skill than Shipp, but alas he is almost 30, and has had recent injury worries.

I'll stick with Shipp, who is a stud, maybe he can go to Don Beebe's speed camp?? You'll SEE

STUD???? I dont think so. The guy cant find the endzone has bad hands and has durability issues. No way he can carry the ball 20-25 times a game and still be there later on in the year. We need a work horse who can carry the ball 20-25 times a game and still be productive at the end of the year. Shipp is a good back when healthy but when has he ever been healthy for a long period of time?

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
The only knock on Dillon is that he's almost 30. Other than that, he blows Shipp away at RB.

I'm guessing we'll be speaking of this until August.

Dillon is a great RB and is an All-Pro, He blows Shipp away. If they replaced Shipp with Dillon, It would be fantastic.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
STUD???? I dont think so. The guy cant find the endzone has bad hands and has durability issues. No way he can carry the ball 20-25 times a game and still be there later on in the year. We need a work horse who can carry the ball 20-25 times a game and still be productive at the end of the year. Shipp is a good back when healthy but when has he ever been healthy for a long period of time?

Great RB's are nice to have but I've never felt you have to have one instead of 2 good ones. Shipp and Dillon would be great together. Just watch what happens to Rudi Johnson this year with no Dillon there to take some of the load, Johnson is good but if you look you'll see in December his attempts went DOWN, and his YPC went UP, because Dillon was healthy and they were sharing the load. He only had 215 carries last year, if they trade Dillon that number goes over 300 yards and then we'll find out if Johnson can handle the load either.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
STUD???? I dont think so. The guy cant find the endzone has bad hands and has durability issues. No way he can carry the ball 20-25 times a game and still be there later on in the year. We need a work horse who can carry the ball 20-25 times a game and still be productive at the end of the year. Shipp is a good back when healthy but when has he ever been healthy for a long period of time?

He doesnt have bad hands.

He is a very good receiver out of the backfield. There are knocks on Shipp-namely durability concerns- but hands is not one of them.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
We need a work horse who can carry the ball 20-25 times a game and still be productive at the end of the year.

That guy would be.................




STEVEN JACKSON - RB - OREGON STATE TA DA!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HoodieBets]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
He doesnt have bad hands.

He is a very good receiver out of the backfield. There are knocks on Shipp-namely durability concerns- but hands is not one of them.

As a reciever hes fine but he has fumbling issues. I believe he has fumbles many times in the red zone.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
See, I don't think that is so.

Green has come in and gotten rid of players that he didn't want and put others on notice.

He is on record saying that he hopes Emmitt wants to play here iin 2004. And, obviosuly Green didn't have anything to do with the contract he signed, so he's not covering himself.

If they cut Emmitt it would be a PR nightmare IMO!

It is a fact that Emmitt makes entirely to much money. You have serious blinders on if you can't see that. Green was most likely told by the extremely loyal Bidwills HANDSOFF!

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Shane H
If they cut Emmitt it would be a PR nightmare IMO!

No, suing ASU (it doesn't matter that they were in the right on the issue) was a PR nightmare. Honestly, I feel if they cut Smith people might talk about it for two days and that would be it. I seriously doubt anyone would drop their tickets over it.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
No, suing ASU (it doesn't matter that they were in the right on the issue) was a PR nightmare. Honestly, I feel if they cut Smith people might talk about it for two days and that would be it. I seriously doubt anyone would drop their tickets over it.

Nobody bought tickets when they signed him either