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both are kinda funny
Arizona State Basketball Thread 2008-2009
- Thread starter Mulli
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both are kinda funny
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Hackett is a dirty player you won't get an argument from me. harden flops, one of those fouls in the first half had the announcers laughing out loud when they showed the replay of Hackett brushing Harden with one arm and Harden reacting like he'd been punched in the jaw and falling down. You could read Hackett's lips saying he flopped. Marques was saying Harden has a career as an actor in his future. he's a great player but he and Hackett are a great matchup because Hackett is a flopper himself. Harden uses his offhand a lot to create space he gets away with a lot on his own, but he's the best player in the conference so why wouldn't he?
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I already admitted Collison hooked but if you watched the game you saw Holiday complaining the whole game that Harden was pushing off with his offhand and hooking him. They called one offensive foul in the game to that point, Glasser hitting Anderson in the face with his offhand while dribbling. So the no call on the hook was consistent with how the game was called. the charge on DC was NOT consistent, it was the only "charge" in the entire game every other instance was a block or a no call.
My point being if they had counted that bucket and called the foul on ASU, there's no way UCLA is pressing fullcourt which led to the side out of bounds which led to Aboya's mistake that ended the game with 2 shots and the ball. That whole chain reaction started with that charge call.
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Sure they missed other calls, like Boateng's backdoor dunk where he took what 4 steps without dribbling?
I'm not saying the whole game was called poorly I'm saying after calling the game one way for 39 minutes, they called it entirely differently on the one play. You can't expect perfection, you just ask for consistency.
the majority of questionable calls went UCLA's way. If the refs didn't blow about 5 calls in 5 minutes midway through the second, your tv would have been turned off by the time that call came around, it would have been game over.
and lol at whoever said Harden flops alot.
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No i tend to watch UCLA games start to finish regardless of the score so I wouldn't have turned it off. I've actually watched the game twice from start to finish now, as I said the game was reffed evenly essentially the whole game save that one call. ASU had one foul in the first 15 minutes of the game, but UCLA was shooting a lot of 3's, that wasn't surprising. Only when UCLA forced a flurry of turnovers did they get shots in transition and start to draw some fouls on ASU.
I'm not claiming there's a conspiracy to help ASU this year, I'm saying the people last year insisting there was a conspiracy to get UCLA a #1 seed should now see that wasn't true. We have bad refs in the Pac 10, last year it worked to UCLA's advantage, this year it's worked to UW's and ASU's advantage in a couple of games.
Harden does flop a lot, both announcers who did the USC game commented on it. He's not Hackett mind you, he's a whole different animal he's just like Ginobili, but Harden loves to fall down on a missed 3 trying to draw a foul, things like that. He's a great player, flopping doesn't detract from that.
Mr. Boldin
Mel Kiper's Daddy
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The fact of the matter is the Pac-10 refs suck. Regardless of outcome here are some of the questionable calls late in games that have happened in the last few weeks, off the top of my head.
1. Dwight Lewis stradeling Nic Wise, Wise gets called for the foul late in the game.
2. The block charge call on Collison Thursday
3. The block charge call last night
4. The illegal screen on Hill against ASU
5. The no call on the ball that hit Wise out of bounds against USC Thursday
I mean those are 5 calls, late in games, that were terrible calls even if they didnt "determine the outcome".
1. Dwight Lewis stradeling Nic Wise, Wise gets called for the foul late in the game.
2. The block charge call on Collison Thursday
3. The block charge call last night
4. The illegal screen on Hill against ASU
5. The no call on the ball that hit Wise out of bounds against USC Thursday
I mean those are 5 calls, late in games, that were terrible calls even if they didnt "determine the outcome".
FArting
Lopes Up!
ASU moves up to number 11 in the ESPN/USA Today Coaches Poll.
Aahhh! The sweet sounds of gloating by ASU hoops fans over the evil UCLA devil. It has been a while.
Is there any top 20 team in the land as offensively stunted as UCLA when they can't get easy baskets off turnovers? And imagine if the PAC10 refs ever started calling just half of the hedging and hip checking fouls? Howland would be looking for a new line of work.
Is there any top 20 team in the land as offensively stunted as UCLA when they can't get easy baskets off turnovers? And imagine if the PAC10 refs ever started calling just half of the hedging and hip checking fouls? Howland would be looking for a new line of work.
Mr. Boldin
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I understand the Horne comment, but cant quite figure out the other.
Are you saying those 2 calls I mentioned against UA were not bad calls?
no, but you were trying to say 5 calls decided a pac 10 season, and all were either for ASU or against UofA. sounds a bit foolish to me.
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If you knew how ridiculous that comment about UCLA's offense was.
Do some research on ken pomeroy's site about offensive efficiency I'll give you a helping hand with the link http://www.kenpom.com/stats.php
What you'll see is after the disastrous weekend in ARizona, UCLA is still 3rd overall in the COUNTRY, in offensive efficiency. Offensive efficiency is loosely defined by Pomeroy as the number of points scored in 100 possessions, it's essentially a points per possession formula that allows for pace and adjusts for strength of schedule(so it's not UCLA's weak OOC that has them so high.)
The problem is the defense raw numbers is #62, way off what they've been in the past under Howland. This year if UCLA doesn't get a steal or a forced turnover, teams shoot a much higher % than they have in the past. UCLA's offense is not the problem, it's the defense, that was the case in both losses to ASU and UA recently too, not the offense, the defense.
I would think after watching UCLA completely embarass Notre Dame just over a week ago you would have noticed they had a pretty good offense? Just that the defense isn't as good this year, in particular we've struggled against good guards, we're still good at taking away a good bigman like Harangody but guys like Harden, Isiah Thomas, and now Wise, have torched us.
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I don't think he was I think he was just trying to list some examples of horrible officiating this year in the Pac 10. Last year everyone chalked it up to bias to get UCLA a #1 seed, but this year we're seeing bad calls almost routinely. I had forgotten aobut the Hill moving screen, ironically IIRC UA got a T arguing that bad call too?
ASU is very good, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they wind up winning the conference, but after getting completely hosed last year in the loss to USC in the conference tourney, they've had some calls go their way this year.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
And UA got handed the Washington game (Arizona shot 51 free throws) right after getting hosed in the final minutes of the ASU and USC games. That's how bad Pac-10 refs are, they can't even slightly hide their incompetence.
I can recall when the Pac-10 had a competent stable of lead officials. I don't know what keeps Kevin Brill and Dave Libbey employed. There is zero accountability and they seem hell bent on issuing apologies rather than making corrections. Is a Pac-10 referee like a Supreme Court Justice and is in the position for life?? I think darn near every team in the conference has a legit claim to being screwed out of a game this season because of a bad call / no call
To make matters worse, the football officiating is right there with basketball. I can't even watch the games anymore
To make matters worse, the football officiating is right there with basketball. I can't even watch the games anymore
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jordan hill moved on the screen and moved his elbow out. situation reffing has been called bs by people on this board when i pointed it out on the suns forum, so you can't expect the rules to change there. jordan hill had a knucklehead play
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Tim Floyd came out today with some statement saying there's no free speech for coaches about refs right now and he's hoping maybe Obama changes that. I am sure he was exaggerating for effect but it was pretty funny and pretty clear what he talking about.
Mr. Boldin
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If you think I am doing this to make a point against ASU then you are foolish. I mean over the past season and a half of conference games how many had terrible calls occur at the end of games?
We can go back to the no call at Staples that knocked ASU out last season, not to mention the two calls that went for UCLA in the Bay area at the end of last season.
If you dont see a common denominator here, then I dont know what to tell you.
Mr. Boldin
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Even if he did move on the screen (which he barely did half a step to a step) and flared his elbow out slightly, its not a call that would be consistently called at the end of a game by any other officiating crew in any conference.
The point is, the Pac-10 refs have a knack for being inconsistent and are very good at getting lots of face time at the end of games. Hell, how many times does the Pac-10 have to come out and admit late game calls were wrong the day after games?
no, i just thought it was funny how almost every call you mentioned was either for ASU or against UofA.
Mr. Boldin
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Well what other calls do you want me to mention? If you can think of any huge calls late in games that have impacted the final minute or two then go ahead and post them. Its not like im picking on ASU or trying to prop up Arizona.
The call against UA was an obvious one that should have gave USC the ball late in the game. Nic Wise was laying out of bounds and the ball clearly landed on him and UA got the ball.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Just as funny as you refusing to acknowledge ASU getting the breaks on a few calls when almost everybody (including the Pac-10 who apologized to UCLA for the Collison charge and to Arizona for the Hill screen) who is unbiased seems to disagree.
And Boldin did mention the Pac-10 Tournament game last year against USC when ASU got hosed.
because if it wasn't for the selection committee being the old chaps club, UA wouldnt have been in the tournament last year and ASU would have. Of course the Pac-10 would apologize to UofA for calling a moving screen on a....uhhhh...moving screen.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
First off, nice job changing the subject to another completely unrelated matter.
Second, we went over this ad nauseam last March and if your "good old boys" conspiracy theory had any merit then fellow members of that club like your Orangemen and two-time defending champion Florida would not have been left on the wrong side of the bubble with ASU.
Third, you're the only person involved in this argument refusing to acknowledge that poor officiating has helped their team's cause. The rest of us have brought up instances where poor officiating has hurt our team's chance to win and other times where it has been beneficial.
Sorry, but it's impossible have an adult argument with somebody who does not believe his team has ever been the benefactor of a poor call. Especially ones as egregious as the last few week's.
