Article critical of Denny Green

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The main difference, football wise, is that Buddy had a top ten offense to start with. All three of our units were a disaster at the end of last season. So, Green "ripping apart" the team doesn't exactly have the same magnitude as what Buddy did. Green is chopping up a turd, Buddy was hacking a pretty good pork chop apart.

An excellent point. The '94 yeam led by Bugel was in the top ten league-wide in offense and defense. Overnight because of Buddy's incompetence the defense got slightly better production-wise while the offense plummeted. It can be argued that the 1994 team was the best version of the Cardinals that Arizona has ever seen, that being said 2003 was probably the worst. Blowing up the offense was a bad move by Buddy back then because they were in fact, actually okay. Green is dealing with the worst offense and defense in the NFL. Blowing up the 2003 team can be nothing but a good thing.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Just Tango--Champion of Underperforming Cardinal Draft Picks everywhere--has the gall to make a statment like this...

So I take it you refuse to even consider the possibility that Ed's comments MIGHT have some merit?

Based on what?

All your years of Atlanta Falcon study???

 

[Ryanwb]

Just to clarify that I am all for being critical, but to make these comparisons and analysis before the season even starts in Green's FIRST season is like writing a review of a movie before you have even seen it.
Like i said, poor effort.....

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Where's CHICAGO CARD to say" "Good job son!!!".

One thing is certain... if Ed is right we will hear no end of it.

And, if wrong, he'll do a disappearing act.

 

[chickenhead]

I fault the article on presenting the each point as 1:1 between Buddy and Denny. How can you compare equally the wreck that Buddy left with Green's pre-season?

Buddy's head coaching resume was not as good as Green's is He was 0-3 in the playoffs. Green is 4-8. If the Super Bowl is the immediate goal, maybe Green is not the guy. If the playoffs are (as they should be for us), I have more confidence in him. I think Green inspires more confidence than Buddy. So Buddy declared we had a winner in town. That quickly evaporated, since he had a winning record in Arizona for only a single week, and it took him until the second-to-last week of his first season against the Bengals to get it (never to return).

I think we can safely say the jury's still out on Green instead of throwing the book at him (which is essentially what a direct comparison to Buddy is).

 

[vince56]

IIRC, 7 players from Buddy Ryan's tenure were on the 1998 playoff team.

Only 7.

If Green needs to overhaul the team in 2-3 years, I'm liking the way he's already doing it. if you're a "coach mac" guy, and you can't adapt to Green's system, I-17 is only a hop, skip and a jump away from camp. His way or the highway.

 

[Russ Smith]

Can Dennis Green lose ONE football game as the coach of the Cardinals before folks start criticizing his moves?

No, I want to go unbeaten (-:


I see your point and I think Ed went over the top but the point is Green can improve this team, and still make mistakes we'll regret.

So far there have been several decisions I completely disagree with, cutting Blake, cutting Kendall, demoting Shelton, demoting Shipp, and demoting Dexter Jackson. If we win 8 games, most people will forget those moves, or say hey he was right. I look at it as was each move made with a clear goal of improving the team, or was there some politics involved?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Its no state secret that there has never been much love lost between Ed B. and myself, but I have to admit, the points he brings up are indeed something that should be considered in the realm of possibility.

To not even consider the possibility that this scenario might be a valid one, would be, to me, comparable to sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich, and refusing to acknowledge "reality". '

holy crap, me, ed b., and tango all agreeing . . . frightening.

i am a big green fan. however, i don't deny that this could all unfold as well. if it was gonna happen to an organization again, it would be to our beloved cardinals.

 

[ajcardfan]

holy crap, me, ed b., and tango all agreeing . . . frightening.

i am a big green fan. however, i don't deny that this could all unfold as well. if it was gonna happen to an organization again, it would be to our beloved cardinals.

Sure. It could happen. We could also win the Super Bowl this year. I think both are about as likely.

"Look at me, ma! I'm openminded!"

 

[MadCardDisease]

Its no state secret that there has never been much love lost between Ed B. and myself, but I have to admit, the points he brings up are indeed something that should be considered in the realm of possibility.

To not even consider the possibility that this scenario might be a valid one, would be, to me, comparable to sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich, and refusing to acknowledge "reality". '

Fine, lets look at what Ed has to say:

1. "coach teams into the playoffs every year but choke once you get there" FACT: Dennis Green has won 4 playoff games and Buddy Ryan has never won a playoff game.
   
2. "since you never win anything in the playoffs, make sure your employer decides that all your personal baggage and lousy personality aren't worth dealing with" FACT: Dennis Green has won 4 playoff games
   
3. "get run out of the league. " FACT: Dennis Green was never "Run out of the League"
   
4. "wait until the league's worst franchise fires a nice, well-liked "players" coach (Mac, Bugel, what's the difference?) and decides to hire you (overpaying in the process) to bring your great attitude and tough-guy demeanor on board to "right the ship"." FACT: Dennis Green was the best coach available and he signed a deal that was less than many new coaches have signed who had less of a track record in the NFL.
   
5. "Next, show blatant favoritism to players to whom you have a personal connection (be it a former ball-boy or a lousy O-lineman whose agent is your son). Draft a guy third and give him a bigger contract than the #1 pick. " FACT: Fitzgerald was the top rated player in the draft on many boards and we landed him with the third pick. Dennis Green does not negotiate contracts!
   
6. "Hand the offense over to a kid whose awful, chicken-without-a-head performance at the end of last year can suddenly be spun into a really promising display of otential. Just tell the reporters and fans you know the kid is going to be great. When they don't buy it, remind them how brilliant and successful you are. They'll realize that if the great, experienced coach says the kid's a superstar, then it must be true!" FACT: Dennis Green has a proven track record of winning with many different QBs.
   
7. "If the last regime had any promising young players (Shipp? Dexter Jackson?) make sure you put them in the doghouse. " FACT: Shipp had a league low 3.6 yards per carry average last year. Not very promising.
   
8. "Make sure one side of the ball (defense for Buddy, offense for Green) knows you care much more about it than the other" FACT: If Green was like Buddy then why did he spend so much money on players like Berry and Macklin? Then also spend high round draft picks on players like Dansby and Dockett?
   
9. The rest is all speculation.
   

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sure. It could happen. We could also win the Super Bowl this year. I think both are about as likely.

"Look at me, ma! I'm openminded!"

OMG! w/ our history?!? i'm speechless . . .

 

[Mulli]

I disagree with the article. However, I will repeat what I said when Buddy Ryan came, if he wins the fans deserve it, if he loses and gets fired he deserves it. Same applies for Green, even though the comparison is not warranted at this time.

Here is a comparison that may be irrelevant but is somewhat interesting, remember how people felt when Belicheck benched Bledsoe for Brady? How did that work?

 

[ajcardfan]

OMG! w/ our history?!? i'm speechless . . .

In other words, it ain't going to happen. I bye-bye to any realistic chances of winning this year when it came out ten guys bitched about the minicamps.

There's gotta be a .0000000000001% chance we win it all though, so I'm still on board the kool-aid train!

 

[ajcardfan]

I disagree with the article. However, I will repeat what I said when Buddy Ryan came, if he wins the fans deserve it, if he loses and gets fired he deserves it. Same applies for Green, even though the comparison is not warranted at this time.

Here is a comparison that may be irrelevant but is somewhat interesting, remember how people felt when Belicheck benched Bledsoe for Brady? How did that work?

Or, how about when he cut Lawyer Milloy right before the season started?

Of course, comparing the Cards and the Pats is the biggest stretch in the NFL right now.

 

[schel]

In other words, it ain't going to happen. I bye-bye to any realistic chances of winning this year when it came out ten guys bitched about the minicamps.

There's gotta be a .0000000000001% chance we win it all though, so I'm still on board the kool-aid train!

Come on, if you call yourself a kool-aider you can at least give us a higher percentage than that. Even Vegas does

 

[schel]

Or, how about when he cut Lawyer Milloy right before the season started?

Of course, comparing the Cards and the Pats is the biggest stretch in the NFL right now.

Well, they had absolutely no one to replace Milloy at the time. They didn't have any depth at the safety position, so that's sort of comparable to our situation... except we don't have depth anywhere But who's going to be our Rodney Harrison?

 

[CardLogic]

Of course, comparing the Cards and the Pats is the biggest stretch in the NFL right now.

Let's wait until week #2 of the season to do that!

 

[SECTION 11]

But who's going to be our Rodney Harrison?

Brian Montesanto?

 

[ajcardfan]

Let's wait until week #2 of the season to do that!

I've had a feeling from the day the schedule came out that we will be the team to break the Pats win streak. Even with Pete Kendall gone, I still feel good about that game.

 

[ajcardfan]

Brian Montesanto?

DOH! Cut already! And, who knew he was a center?

 

[schel]

I've had a feeling from the day the schedule came out that we will be the team to break the Pats win streak. Even with Pete Kendall gone, I still feel good about that game.

I wish but I fear for McCown in that game. McCown played a good defense vs the Panthers but that's different. The type of defense the Pats run is hard to read and isn't exactly newbie friendly, so I can't see us winning that game unless McCown is suddenly a very composed and smart player. Maybe, just maybe we would have a chance if that game was later in the season.

 

[cardsunsfan]

What happened to ED_B anyways? He used to post here all the time... I used to confuse him with Ryanwb, must be because of the endings

 

[blindseyed]

I've had a feeling from the day the schedule came out that we will be the team to break the Pats win streak. Even with Pete Kendall gone, I still feel good about that game.

On this I can agree with you, mainly because of the heat. Example: the Pack last year, Holy Cow were they suckin wind in the 2nd half or what? If the Birds stay in it thru the half, I do believe they have a chance! Thank you, drive thru!

 

[SECTION 11]

DOH! Cut already! And, who knew he was a center?

Brian Montesanto can do it all. Don't doubt the Montesanto. You'll rue the day.

 

[ajcardfan]

I wish but I fear for McCown in that game. McCown played a good defense vs the Panthers but that's different. The type of defense the Pats run is hard to read and isn't exactly newbie friendly, so I can't see us winning that game unless McCown is suddenly a very composed and smart player. Maybe, just maybe we would have a chance if that game was later in the season.

I think we're catching them at the perfect time. They'll have been geared up to play Indy in the opener. They are coming out here in the heat, and they WILL not take us very seriously. All the perfect ingredients are there for an upset. Just like last season, I thought losing 38-0 to Seattle made it more likely we would beat Green Bay in September.