Article critical of Denny Green

[CardsRep03]

Jeff had it right, Ready, Fire, Aim. He must not know that it's go time. Larry's in camp. Ready, set, explode...on the NFL scene....

Oh, it's a scene, man--Jerry Seinfeld on being an orgy guy.

 

[cardsunsfan]

So what happened to Ed? He was a big time poster I want the dirt!!!!

 

[cardsunsfan]

Hmm no Jolt or Ed_B... in the member listing what could have happened to him that would want him to go from one of the biggest posters to falling off the face of Cardinal Board Earth and still post articles...?

 

[WildBB]

Ed is just frustrated with all the crap over the years. To me his article is not out of bounds.

Green's cutting Kendall was. But it will be forgotten if he can get them to perform in THE REGULAR SEASON. Now you'r in the spotlight Coach, if that;s what you want run with it, you got it.

 

[BACH]

Second, coach teams into the playoffs every year but choke once you get there.

I'll take two lost conference championships in nine years over one play-off appearence in 14 years anyday...

 

[ASUCHRIS]

So what happened to Ed? He was a big time poster I want the dirt!!!!

He went postal on Ryan, it was pretty embarassing......

 

[slanidrac16]

I'm not even going to read this.

I got 1 paragraph past the ASFN disclaimer and that was enough for me. As soon as I seen the comparison to Buddy Ryan, I stopped.

I'd like to thank the moderaters for the disclaimer, but it's a little rediculous to add the smooze and to suck up to the writer. I've got the feeling if we hired Jesus Christ himself (Let me add my disclaimer for any non-believers) someone would find something to *itch about.

I will not praise Ed for such a well written article. I will say this. Ed why don't you go to the Chicago Bears websight and start rooting and writing for them!!!

 

[chickenhead]

Going back to the Bledsoe/Brady thing, Bledsoe wasn't benched for Brady. Bledsoe went out with an injury in the second game of the season, and Brady took over. The real question was whether a starter should lose his job to injury. However, but the time Bledsoe reappeared in the playoff game against Pittsburgh after Brady hurt his ankle, the Pats had won something like 12 games with Brady and were on a sustained winning streak.

 

[spanky1]

Except they get extra time off Indy to prep for the Cards (10 days) and their bye is after the Cards game so they may be playing for some extra days off Belichek may offer them. Cards will still have to bring their A game. A+ game probably.

What is a Cardinal "A" game?

 

[jerryp]

Buddy Ryan- career coaching record: 55-55
Denny Green- career coaching record: 97-62

I agree that the article was very well written and does a good job of convincing everyone that the sky is falling, but please... This is a knee-jerk reaction to the latest surprise/unpopular move.

Can Dennis Green lose ONE football game as the coach of the Cardinals before folks start criticizing his moves?

Buddy Ryan had a .550 winning percentage before taking over the Cardinals. Denny Green is .610 prior to taking over the Cardinals. So basically prior to taking over this organization, Green averaged one more win a year than Ryan.

And of course, even if Green is "successful" in delivering back to back 8-8 seasons, his winning percentage is still going to creep towards Ryans.

 

[spanky1]

Buddy Ryan had a .550 winning percentage before taking over the Cardinals. Denny Green is .610 prior to taking over the Cardinals. So basically prior to taking over this organization, Green averaged one more win a year than Ryan.

And of course, even if Green is "successful" in delivering back to back 8-8 seasons, his winning percentage is still going to creep towards Ryans.

Back to back 8 and 8's won't be acceptable.

 

[ajcardfan]

Back to back 8 and 8's won't be acceptable.

Yeah, probably not. If we go 8-8 fans should expect improvement the next season and I would almost certainly be disappointed if 8-8 was repeated. On the other hand, when we the last time the Cardinals had two nonlosing seasons in a row?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Where was BUDDY RYAN a "head coach" in the NFL before arriving in Arizona?

 

[ajcardfan]

Where was BUDDY RYAN a "head coach" in the NFL before arriving in Arizona?

That would be the Philadelphia Eagles.

I'll never forget one year when the Eagles played the Cardinals here and Buddy was the Eagles coach. At halftime, we were on the walkway above where the players came out of the lockerroom. Probably 200 people watching, a lot of kids. Buddy comes walking out and someone says, "Hey, Buddy! If you don't lose some weight you're going to have a heart attack!" Buddy comes to a dead stop. Scans the whole crowd. Then, he grabs his genitals and walks on.

 

[Duckjake]

Back to back 8 and 8's won't be acceptable.

Hard to believe that if DGreen's teams go 6-10 for the next 5 years they would have a better record than what Tobin/McGinnis achieved over the last 5.

Oh Well, next month if they are simply competitive I'll be happy. After the last 5 years(25-55) just not getting blown out by the middle of the 2nd quarter or giving up 60 yard TD's just before halftime every week will be sufficient for this ol' boy.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Hard to believe that if DGreen's teams go 6-10 for the next 5 years they would have a better record than what Tobin/McGinnis achieved over the last 5.

Oh Well, next month if they are simply competitive I'll be happy. After the last 5 years(25-55) just not getting blown out by the middle of the 2nd quarter or giving up 60 yard TD's just before halftime every week will be sufficient for this ol' boy.

hear, hear! Or is it here here!

 

[general]

Its no state secret that there has never been much love lost between Ed B. and myself, but I have to admit, the points he brings up are indeed something that should be considered in the realm of possibility.

To not even consider the possibility that this scenario might be a valid one, would be, to me, comparable to sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich, and refusing to acknowledge "reality". '

Fine, lets look at what Ed has to say:

1. "coach teams into the playoffs every year but choke once you get there" FACT: Dennis Green has won 4 playoff games and Buddy Ryan has never won a playoff game.
   
2. "since you never win anything in the playoffs, make sure your employer decides that all your personal baggage and lousy personality aren't worth dealing with" FACT: Dennis Green has won 4 playoff games
   
3. "get run out of the league. " FACT: Dennis Green was never "Run out of the League"
   
4. "wait until the league's worst franchise fires a nice, well-liked "players" coach (Mac, Bugel, what's the difference?) and decides to hire you (overpaying in the process) to bring your great attitude and tough-guy demeanor on board to "right the ship"." FACT: Dennis Green was the best coach available and he signed a deal that was less than many new coaches have signed who had less of a track record in the NFL.
   
5. "Next, show blatant favoritism to players to whom you have a personal connection (be it a former ball-boy or a lousy O-lineman whose agent is your son). Draft a guy third and give him a bigger contract than the #1 pick. " FACT: Fitzgerald was the top rated player in the draft on many boards and we landed him with the third pick. Dennis Green does not negotiate contracts!
   
6. "Hand the offense over to a kid whose awful, chicken-without-a-head performance at the end of last year can suddenly be spun into a really promising display of otential. Just tell the reporters and fans you know the kid is going to be great. When they don't buy it, remind them how brilliant and successful you are. They'll realize that if the great, experienced coach says the kid's a superstar, then it must be true!" FACT: Dennis Green has a proven track record of winning with many different QBs.
   
7. "If the last regime had any promising young players (Shipp? Dexter Jackson?) make sure you put them in the doghouse. " FACT: Shipp had a league low 3.6 yards per carry average last year. Not very promising.
   
8. "Make sure one side of the ball (defense for Buddy, offense for Green) knows you care much more about it than the other" FACT: If Green was like Buddy then why did he spend so much money on players like Berry and Macklin? Then also spend high round draft picks on players like Dansby and Dockett?
   
9. The rest is all speculation

This is an example of a well written article NOT what Ed wrote. Get this guy to write the front page stories.

This is factual writing not what Ed wrote.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Damn Somebody doesn't like change. Coach Mac sucked and held players to zero accountability. Maybe Ed isn't use to seeing a team ran correctly so he doesn't get it. I love what is happening, let's get Green some games under the belt before you blast him. And how the hell could you say Green is ignoring the D, when he signed Berry, drafted Docket, Dansby and signed Macklin. They does not sound like ignoring a side to me.

 

[Ed_B]

I'm glad some of you read the article.

My "neglecting the defense" comment is based on the fact that we have no NFL-caliber CBs, which is something Green always struggled with in Minn.

Berry is definitely an upgrade. But Starks is always hurt, Rhinehart isn't very good, Hill would be a better nickel corner, and Macklin didn't even start in Indy.

Gonna have a hard time shutting down the Rams with that backfield.

 

[SECTION 11]

I'm glad some of you read the article.

My "neglecting the defense" comment is based on the fact that we have no NFL-caliber CBs, which is something Green always struggled with in Minn.

Berry is definitely an upgrade. But Starks is always hurt, Rhinehart isn't very good, Hill would be a better nickel corner, and Macklin didn't even start in Indy.

Gonna have a hard time shutting down the Rams with that backfield.

We've got a ways to go. If next year's draft goes as well as this year's, I'll be happy.

 

[Mulli]

Didn't Macklin start playoff games for Indy?

 

[jerryp]

Back to back 8 and 8's won't be acceptable.

Which is exactly why I put "successful" in quotes. I'm not saying 8-8 is acceptable, I am pointing out that comparing Greens win percentage to Buddy's after he had two years with the Cards is an unfair comparison because:

A) They had similar win pecentages prior to taking the Cardinals job
B) Ryan's win percentage took a hit when coaching the Cards
C) Green's win percentage will drop after two seasons with the Cardinals

The only way Denny can maintain his win percentage here over the next two years is if he get's 20 wins over those two seasons. Who here really thinks we are going to go 8-8 then 12-4 or some similar combo? I'll be happily surprised, but I am not counting on it.

Do I think DG is Buddy Ryan two? No, but I think there is more convincing arguments for DG being better than Ryan than "Over the course of a decade he'll win 10 more games." Which is all comparing their records (win-loss) prior to coaching the Cards tells us.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm glad some of you read the article.

My "neglecting the defense" comment is based on the fact that we have no NFL-caliber CBs, which is something Green always struggled with in Minn.

Berry is definitely an upgrade. But Starks is always hurt, Rhinehart isn't very good, Hill would be a better nickel corner, and Macklin didn't even start in Indy.

Gonna have a hard time shutting down the Rams with that backfield.

You don't need to "shut down" the Rams, you just have to contain them. I think that Tampa has some pretty average corners, but they've managed to stay competitive with the Rams for a long time.

I've said it before: there are two ways to stop the pass: with great cornerbacks or with a terrorizing pass rush. There are more quality pass rushers than there are shut-down cornerbacks (of which there are perhaps five in the NFL today). By focusing on the pass rush, Denny was taking a chance on getting the pass defense better, faster.

The alternative is what San Diego's defense is doing, which is putting talented but inexperinced corners on the field with no pass rush, and just letting them develop over three years. That's not going to get them in the playoffs in time to save anyone's job. And there was no Quentin Jammer in this draft.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I'm glad some of you read the article.

My "neglecting the defense" comment is based on the fact that we have no NFL-caliber CBs, which is something Green always struggled with in Minn.

Berry is definitely an upgrade. But Starks is always hurt, Rhinehart isn't very good, Hill would be a better nickel corner, and Macklin didn't even start in Indy.

Gonna have a hard time shutting down the Rams with that backfield.

Maybe if the Cards had some pass rush, these guys would look alot better, hopefully the D can pressure the QB and guys like Hill and Starks will look great. Hill had ok numbers last year with zero pass rush. I don't think they will be great this year (our DB's) but I think with a little better coaching and some pass rushing, the group will look leaps and bounds better then last year.

 

[azsports]

I'm glad some of you read the article.

My "neglecting the defense" comment is based on the fact that we have no NFL-caliber CBs, which is something Green always struggled with in Minn.

Berry is definitely an upgrade. But Starks is always hurt, Rhinehart isn't very good, Hill would be a better nickel corner, and Macklin didn't even start in Indy.

Gonna have a hard time shutting down the Rams with that backfield.

Not only did I read the article but I loved it. I have felt the same way for weeks now. I was just waiting for him to step up the mike and say "You've got a Weiner in town." God I hope I am wrong. but it scares me.