At what point do you blame the players?

[clif]

Excuse me for not reading all the obsessively retreaded threads on how poor our clock management was and how Green is a terrible coach and all that garbage. I have a question. At what point do we start to actually blame the players for losing games?

Forgive me because I have not watched the game. I was only able to listen, but I'm sure once I watch it I will feel the same way. How is it Green's fault that Monica had like 3 false starts? How is it Green's fault that Adrian Wilson gets burnt like toast seemingly every game against the Hawks? ( I like Wilson and he made some nice plays)

How is it Greens fault that once again our Veteran superbowl winning MVP QB can't seem to spike the ball at the right time? (ie last year against the Rams) Is that really a coaching problem? Don't you think they practice this stuff? You think the coaches ignore there areas? Hell no. These players need to be held more responsible.

Spending an additional 10 mil means nothing when you committ 11 penalties a game. Perfect example.... The raiders have led the league in penalties for something like 5 years straight... is that now Art Shell's fault that they continue to do it? I say no... because it's some of those same 'dumb' players making stupid mistakes.

My point being... it is time to face facts.... our players lack football smarts and I look forward to the day that more are benched to get the point across.

At what point do you realize that our players suck at tackling? Do you really think they don't practice this stuff?

 

[Shane]

Excuse me for not reading all the obsessively retreaded threads on how poor our clock management was and how Green is a terrible coach and all that garbage. I have a question. At what point do we start to actually blame the players for losing games?

Forgive me because I have not watched the game. I was only able to listen, but I'm sure once I watch it I will feel the same way. How is it Green's fault that Monica had like 3 false starts? How is it Green's fault that Adrian Wilson gets burnt like toast seemingly every game against the Hawks? ( I like Wilson and he made some nice plays)

How is it Greens fault that once again our Veteran superbowl winning MVP QB can't seem to spike the ball at the right time? (ie last year against the Rams) Is that really a coaching problem? Don't you think they practice this stuff? You think the coaches ignore there areas? Hell no. These players need to be held more responsible.

Spending an additional 10 mil means nothing when you committ 11 penalties a game. Perfect example.... The raiders have led the league in penalties for something like 5 years straight... is that now Art Shell's fault that they continue to do it? I say no... because it's some of those same 'dumb' players making stupid mistakes.

My point being... it is time to face facts.... our players lack football smarts and I look forward to the day that more are benched to get the point across.

At what point do you realize that our players suck at tackling? Do you really think they don't practice this stuff?

Well you blame Green for Warner not spiking the ball because it was green who ordered the FG team on the field to hurrya kick not giving Warner a chance to spike the ball.

You blame Green for the penalties becuase those show a huge lack of discipline which is a coaching issue.

I know for a fact this team doesnt concentrate on practicing tackling. Sat through at least 15 Green run practices. to know it.

 

[CardShark]

Employees are a reflection of management. It's the same in any business. If a team lacks discipline it's because the leadership doesn't instill it and insist upon it. The Raiders are always penalized because Al Davis overshadows the coach and doesn't hold players accountable. As the Bidwills are not involved to the extent that Davis is, it is the coaches that are responsible. Benching players in itself is not how you instill discipline. It's teaching, practicing and evaluating over and over until the player fully understands your expectations and how to attain the desired results. That can't be done when you're playing musical chairs with player positions. You also need to know what a players strengths are and how to use them. If they are not locked into the idea that you are putting them in the best situation to be successful, they will not have the mindset to do what you are asking them to do. If they don't have the confidence in a teammate doing what they are supposed to do, they will not have the discipline to focus on what they are supposed to do.

 

[Shane]

Employees are a reflection of management. It's the same in any business. If a team lacks discipline it's because the leadership doesn't instill it and insist upon it. The Raiders are always penalized because Al Davis overshadows the coach and doesn't hold players accountable. As the Bidwills are not involved to the extent that Davis is, it is the coaches that are responsible. Benching players in itself is not how you instill discipline. It's teaching, practicing and evaluating over and over until the player fully understands your expectations and how to attain the desired results. That can't be done when you're playing musical chairs with player positions. You also need to know what a players strengths are and how to use them. If they are not locked into the idea that you are putting them in the best situation to be successful, they will not have the mindset to do what you are asking them to do. If they don't have the confidence in a teammate doing what they are supposed to do, they will not have the discipline to focus on what they are supposed to do.

You put that so eloquently!

 

[WildBB]

My point being... it is time to face facts.... our players lack football smarts and I look forward to the day that more are benched to get the point across.

That is really the only solution give players the opportunity to put up or get them out of there. There is no next yr. for this team and staff. Put up or get shut out...... no one is immune. Just Do It. Consistently.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Employees are a reflection of management. It's the same in any business. If a team lacks discipline it's because the leadership doesn't instill it and insist upon it. The Raiders are always penalized because Al Davis overshadows the coach and doesn't hold players accountable. As the Bidwills are not involved to the extent that Davis is, it is the coaches that are responsible. Benching players in itself is not how you instill discipline. It's teaching, practicing and evaluating over and over until the player fully understands your expectations and how to attain the desired results. That can't be done when you're playing musical chairs with player positions. You also need to know what a players strengths are and how to use them. If they are not locked into the idea that you are putting them in the best situation to be successful, they will not have the mindset to do what you are asking them to do. If they don't have the confidence in a teammate doing what they are supposed to do, they will not have the discipline to focus on what they are supposed to do.

Exactly

 

[clif]

Employees are a reflection of management. It's the same in any business. If a team lacks discipline it's because the leadership doesn't instill it and insist upon it. The Raiders are always penalized because Al Davis overshadows the coach and doesn't hold players accountable. As the Bidwills are not involved to the extent that Davis is, it is the coaches that are responsible. Benching players in itself is not how you instill discipline. It's teaching, practicing and evaluating over and over until the player fully understands your expectations and how to attain the desired results. That can't be done when you're playing musical chairs with player positions. You also need to know what a players strengths are and how to use them. If they are not locked into the idea that you are putting them in the best situation to be successful, they will not have the mindset to do what you are asking them to do. If they don't have the confidence in a teammate doing what they are supposed to do, they will not have the discipline to focus on what they are supposed to do.

With all due respect... what a crock of crap. Do you need your boss to tell you not to do stupid things? Do you need your boss to tell you how to discipline yourself? What is so damn hard about not jumping offsides? What can a coach tell you that you shouldn't already know? At what level is it ever acceptable to continually commit false starts? Does it take a coach telling you not to do it for you not to?

My point is.. there really isn't anything that these players need to be told that they haven't heard a million times. It is simply time for players to hold themselves accountable. So many people want to always blame others for their mistakes. IMO it is a copout to continually blame coaches for players dropping passes, committing stupid penalties, and missed tackles. These are the most basic aspects of the game. What does a coach have to say to a player for them to not fumble a simple pass play. Come on. These guys are paid millions of dollars and they need a coach to tell them not to be dumb?

 

[vince56]

1) The players are 100% responsible.
2) The coaches are 100% responsible.
3) Management is 100% responsible.

Having said that, it wasn't as bad a loss as it could've been. The Cardinals still aren't very good, but they're better than abysmal, and that's gotta be progress

 

[Redsz]

What does a coach have to say to a player for them to not fumble a simple pass play.

Man, I can't believe this play has been over looked in the 'wake' of this game. God, that killed us. If Bergen held onto that ball then who knows what would of happened.

We can't expect to turn the ball over 5 times and expect to win. Period. That killed us just as much as anything else in this game. Infact it was to the defenses credit that they held on in spite of the offense handing the ball over to Seattle again and again.

 

[conraddobler]

With all due respect... what a crock of crap. Do you need your boss to tell you not to do stupid things? Do you need your boss to tell you how to discipline yourself? What is so damn hard about not jumping offsides? What can a coach tell you that you shouldn't already know? At what level is it ever acceptable to continually commit false starts? Does it take a coach telling you not to do it for you not to?

My point is.. there really isn't anything that these players need to be told that they haven't heard a million times. It is simply time for players to hold themselves accountable. So many people want to always blame others for their mistakes. IMO it is a copout to continually blame coaches for players dropping passes, committing stupid penalties, and missed tackles. These are the most basic aspects of the game. What does a coach have to say to a player for them to not fumble a simple pass play. Come on. These guys are paid millions of dollars and they need a coach to tell them not to be dumb?

Theres a word for players like that.

Former.

Coaches need to apply that correctly so that by year three those players aren't on their team anymore.

Goes back to the coach no matter how you slice it.

 

[blindseyed]

I wanna know when this team will stop being a "rebuilding" team and be a pro team..in it's 3rd year shouldn't it be rebuilt and competing on a competent level and not making the same mistakes as the past 20 years?
Everyone is to blame....except me......ok maybe me too

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

With all due respect... what a crock of crap. Do you need your boss to tell you not to do stupid things? Do you need your boss to tell you how to discipline yourself? What is so damn hard about not jumping offsides? What can a coach tell you that you shouldn't already know? At what level is it ever acceptable to continually commit false starts? Does it take a coach telling you not to do it for you not to?

My point is.. there really isn't anything that these players need to be told that they haven't heard a million times. It is simply time for players to hold themselves accountable. So many people want to always blame others for their mistakes. IMO it is a copout to continually blame coaches for players dropping passes, committing stupid penalties, and missed tackles. These are the most basic aspects of the game. What does a coach have to say to a player for them to not fumble a simple pass play. Come on. These guys are paid millions of dollars and they need a coach to tell them not to be dumb?

Exactly .

 

[njlawrence]

Theres a word for players like that.

Former.

Coaches need to apply that correctly so that by year three those players aren't on their team anymore.

Goes back to the coach no matter how you slice it.

I agree. A fish stinks from the head.