Avatar: The Way of Water (aka Avatar 2)

[Zalixar]

You get a -1 for every glaring plot hole

Sure. But if I graded every movie like that, most wouldn't have a passing grade.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

What annoys me is the movie is so incredible to watch it could have been one of the best movies I have ever seen. Instead I am just unable to get past so many things

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sure. But if I graded every movie like that, most wouldn't have a passing grade.

Entire character arcs are nonsensical. Jungle boy to start.

 

[Stout]

So I just wattched it and these are my thoughts.

On a scale of 1 to 10 the story is barely a 1. I don't know how you can make a movie that long have so many odd plot holes. I could do paragraphs on stuff that makes zero sense.

One a scaore of 1 to 10 the visuals are a 15. It's simply a gorgeous movie with the best motion capture I have ever seen.

Beyond that, 85% of the movie is about the kids and those kids are so annoying they make you appreciate your own kids.

I am happy to have paid for it in the theater. I have no idea if I will ever watch it again.

Woof!

 

[Stout]

Sure. But if I graded every movie like that, most wouldn't have a passing grade.

lol Now you understand why I'm so critical of movies!

 

[Zalixar]

lol Now you understand why I'm so critical of movies!

Yeah criticism is always warranted, but having minor experience working on small films and some family more involved in the process (writing, directing, producing), I've been less critical over time as it's just too easy.

As they say, everyone's a critic.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wonder what the long term legs will be like on this one too. It's a spectacle to see in the theaters, especially IMAX, so I wonder how that's going to translate to streaming and home video.

It's crazy though the number that's it's pulling in. I'm thinking you 1.5 to 1.7 might be a little low now and that it might end up right at about $2b. I'm saying that because of the in theater spectacle aspect of it and we're heading into "Frack you, it's January!" There's nothing coming out anytime soon. Kids are going to be seeing it multiple times in the theater to drive the number.

This definitely could be. So far, I don’t know anyone off the board who has seen it so I’ve got no clue what the buzz is in the real world. And there is really nothing of note coming out until Ant-Man 3 which I think is in mid Feb.

So it could reach those heights if the spectacle is really all that. This weekend will be telling as far as where it goes from here. If it has a really GREAT hold (especially in comparison to other big Xmas box office behemoths, that will be a telling sign of legs moving forward).

 

[Stout]

Yeah criticism is always warranted, but having minor experience working on small films and some family more involved in the process (writing, directing, producing), I've been less critical over time as it's just too easy.

As they say, everyone's a critic.

Fair. All movies have plot holes. The question is always if the quality of the movie overcomes them. Or, I guess another question is if it's just pure cheesy fun regardless, or because of, the plot holes. The Thing, for instance, has a whopper of a plot hole, but not only does it not kill the movie, people don't usually recognize it.

Sounds like this Avatar movie is one of those "Yeah, plot holes everywhere but it's pretty." Which is great if you go just for visual spectacle. Pure cheese can do it for me, but pure spectacle wouldn't. Too cringey in the "it's bad but we're going to try to make it serious and dramatic!" Like the Meg. Should've been a great cheese fest, but they tried to be a serious dramatic movie lol

 

[Zalixar]

Fair. All movies have plot holes. The question is always if the quality of the movie overcomes them. Or, I guess another question is if it's just pure cheesy fun regardless, or because of, the plot holes. The Thing, for instance, has a whopper of a plot hole, but not only does it not kill the movie, people don't usually recognize it.

Sounds like this Avatar movie is one of those "Yeah, plot holes everywhere but it's pretty." Which is great if you go just for visual spectacle. Pure cheese can do it for me, but pure spectacle wouldn't. Too cringey in the "it's bad but we're going to try to make it serious and dramatic!" Like the Meg. Should've been a great cheese fest, but they tried to be a serious dramatic movie lol

I think the plot holes were a little exaggerated, but it's smooth enough to just enjoy the film. It's about ~25 minutes too long and the final act dragged on the most imo.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Space internet across galaxies. This isn't a spoiler since it's immediate. You can apparently send a conscious across galaxies but can't design a way to breathe without a giant face plate

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I think the plot holes were a little exaggerated, but it's smooth enough to just enjoy the film. It's about ~25 minutes too long and the final act dragged on the most imo.

The entire sea tribe vanished in the middle of the finale for 30 minutes so the 2 main characters could fight the Marines. Stop it.

It's jarringly stupid

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Where did the sea creatures go for an hour? They just vanished

 

[Zalixar]

The entire sea tribe vanished in the middle of the finale for 30 minutes so the 2 main characters could fight the Marines. Stop it.

It's jarringly stupid

That's not a plot hole though. It may be stupid or an oversight, yes.

 

[Beaver]

Wife dragged me to this and I’m glad she did. I thought it was great. I’ve never actually seen the first one, so I guess I’ll be watching it soon.

 

[Devilmaycare]

This definitely could be. So far, I don’t know anyone off the board who has seen it so I’ve got no clue what the buzz is in the real world. And there is really nothing of note coming out until Ant-Man 3 which I think is in mid Feb.

So it could reach those heights if the spectacle is really all that. This weekend will be telling as far as where it goes from here. If it has a really GREAT hold (especially in comparison to other big Xmas box office behemoths, that will be a telling sign of legs moving forward).

The few people I've heard from mirror the board. It's been either love it or meh depending on if the person values spectacle or plot more. Real life has sounded exactly like the last page of posts.

Overall I was guessing that word of mouth has to be pretty good with it topping a billion already and looking at the box office numbers. The positive inflection over the last week makes me think that but there is a chance of it being skewed by Christmas. You're right that this weekend will be telling.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The few people I've heard from mirror the board. It's been either love it or meh depending on if the person values spectacle or plot more. Real life has sounded exactly like the last page of posts.

Overall I was guessing that word of mouth has to be pretty good with it topping a billion already and looking at the box office numbers. The positive inflection over the last week makes me think that but there is a chance of it being skewed by Christmas. You're right that this weekend will be telling.

One difference that’s helped it get to 1 bill so fast is it is one of the first American movies allowed to open in China in a couple years. Think it’s got about 130 million from there alone.

Deadline Hollywood has been tracking the days similarly to Rogue One, which came out like gangbusters but fizzled (fizzled to the tune of a still huge 500 domestic/over a billion worldwide) after Xmas. This one probably has more staying power because of the buzz that it’s such a spectacle.

I’m still excited to see it, even with my expectations storywise dialed back a bit.

 

[Stout]

That's not a plot hole though. It may be stupid or an oversight, yes.

You just described a plot hole

 

[Zalixar]

You just described a plot hole

Nope, an oversight is not specifically plot hole.

Plot hole is a gap in logic or inconsistency that breaks the established rules of the story to push the plot along.

A famous one is like in Butterfly Effect, for example.

 

[Stout]

Nope, an oversight is not specifically plot hole.

Plot hole is a gap in logic or inconsistency that breaks the established rules of the story to push the plot along.

A famous one is like in Butterfly Effect, for example.

Plot holes are stupid, and they are certainly an oversight. They're bad writing that do, in part, what you just described in this post, too.

 

[Zalixar]

Plot holes are stupid, and they are certainly an oversight. They're bad writing that do, in part, what you just described in this post, too.

Sometimes plot holes are in the writing stages, or in the editing stages.

An actual plot hole would be with the whale (couple things here)

The technology, as described earlier seems so advanced and yet so limited. As well as the RDA's lack of ability to be competent in many areas.

Or with the bonding of the birds with the new avatars at the cliffs.

 

[Stout]

Plot holes are plot holes, however and whenever they crop up.

 

[Cheesebeef]

@Devilmaycare okay… I may be underestimating the total BO finis. this movie is making almost 100 million worldwide even during the week, up to 1.1 billion in 14 days.

will prob be up to 1.3 or 1.4 by end of this weekend. 2 bill could be in the offing.

Which again, would really be amazing. That would give Cameron 3 of the 4 top grossing movies ever. All of them his last three movies.

 

[carrrnuttt]

@Devilmaycare okay… I may be underestimating the total BO finis. this movie is making almost 100 million worldwide even during the week, up to 1.1 billion in 14 days.

will prob be up to 1.3 or 1.4 by end of this weekend. 2 bill could be in the offing.

Which again, would really be amazing. That would give Cameron 3 of the 4 top grossing movies ever. All of them his last three movies.

That dude simply knows what puts eyes on the screen and butts in seats. Period.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Simple thoughts:

Most visually pleasing/engaging thing I’ve ever seen. This takes it up a notch from the first.

Kids didn’t bother me. They were kids. I actually rather enjoyed seeing this new world through their eyes.

Story was fine. Earth shattering? No. New? No. Engaging enough not to be distracted by it? Yes.

Sit back and just let your eyeballs drink it in.

IMAX 3D. Worth every penny.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I’m definitely going to be wrong. Third weekend looks like box office is holding insanely well, maybe down only 10%.

‘Avatar: The Way Of Water’ Scores Monday January Record With $21M+, 4-Day Rises To $88M, Looks To Best Blumhouse’s ‘M3GAN’ Opening – Tuesday AM Update

'Avatar: The Way Of Water' To Cross $440M At New Year's Weekend Box Office

deadline.com

This sucker might hit 2 billion after all. If it gets there, what Cameron will have accomplished is truly insane.