Awwww.....Washington, Wa-shing-ton...

[Cbus cardsfan]

Krang, I respect your opinion. Why should I expect Daryl Washington to be a big-time playmaker at the NFL level when he wasn't a big-time playmaker in the Mountain West? 4 passes defensed his entire senior season!

Let's face it, DW was drafted purely on athletic ability and the thinking that with professional coaching that he'll develop into a good player. With a 2nd round pick i can live with that. I don't think he'll contribute a whole lot, other than special teams, this year but he definitely has the potential to become a legit NFL player. I think he could become a Nick Barnett type player, which is very good or a ........well, Raynoch type player which is very bad. Let's hope for Barnett.

 

[Garthshort]

There is NOTHING CERTAIN in the Draft, and we'll see how the pick turns out. But it doesn't make much sense to say that one tackle, 40 time, and an interview were the reasons he was drafted. I would say with CERTAINTY, that scouts were at a couple of games and practices, spoke with coaches and watched a LOT of film. Do they make mistakes, sure, but not as many as fans make. JMO.

 

[Stout]

Sean Lee is like Rob Fredrickson while Washington is like Jamir Miller.

I'm not saying their similar style players, what I'm saying is that Lee will be a solid player if he plays to his capability while Washington could be a big time playmaker.

 

[JeffGollin]

Krang - The reason why the Jamir Miller comparison doesn't work out is that Jamir was 6-4 or 6-5 and bigger physically. Washington is smaller and more mobile.

Seems like the perfect place to make an observation likening the NFL Draft to the Stock Market:

When deciding where to put your money (in stocks, mutual funds, T-Bills, a mattress etc.) - while you review everything about a potential investment in terms of its past performance over 1, 3, 5 years etc., its current position etc., what the smart guys will tell you is:

"Put away the past for a moment and zero in on 'how you feel the stock will perform going forward."

Applying that principle to Daryl Washington: "We know what he's done or hasn't done. We know what he's got right now. But the only thing to zero in on is: "Given all this, how is he likely to help us looking forward?"

What I see looking forward is a linebacking corps (operating behind a physically tougher D-line) manned by Haggans, Hayes, Washington and Porter; with DW providing some of the speed and range that Hayes lacks and Hayes providing some of the stand-up toughness that Washington may lack.

What I'm expecting to see from this unit is a trade-off of (a) being somewhat less smashmouth at LB but (b) making more plays and take-aways.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm just not seeing what K9, Stout, and Bucky are seeing. I watched three different highlights/lowlight packages and two full games and he is behind the line of scrimmage ALL THE TIME. His speed at LB is crazy and his insitincts and reactions are A+ IMO. I am watching him diagnose a play and then be through the line so quickly, I can't see how many don't see a faster version of Karlos.

Like Dansby he won't be the ideal hat on hat guy and will probably get engulfed on plays from time to time. He's not a thumper and in this systems, the WILB isn't supposed to be. But in terms of teams trying to turn the corner on us or string a sweep out? He is going to be the main guy blowing up those plays. And I also think his coverage in space is strong too.

Watching the tape has him sticking out like a sore thumb too me. Our defense is going to be faaaaaast.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Lee's intagibles I love but he is a plodder IMO. He will have a solid but unspectacular career.

I could see Washington being better the Los in 2 years. No question in my mind.

 

[PJ1]

I'm just not seeing what K9, Stout, and Bucky are seeing. I watched three different highlights/lowlight packages and two full games and he is behind the line of scrimmage ALL THE TIME. His speed at LB is crazy and his insitincts and reactions are A+ IMO. I am watching him diagnose a play and then be through the line so quickly, I can't see how many don't see a faster version of Karlos.

Like Dansby he won't be the ideal hat on hat guy and will probably get engulfed on plays from time to time. He's not a thumper and in this systems, the WILB isn't supposed to be. But in terms of teams trying to turn the corner on us or string a sweep out? He is going to be the main guy blowing up those plays. And I also think his coverage in space is strong too.

Watching the tape has him sticking out like a sore thumb too me. Our defense is going to be faaaaaast.

I agree and watching the draft coverage it was pointed out that he was arguably better than Hughes last season. I wanted Lee when I saw we traded up but I am not upset with this pick.

 

[Buckybird]

WOW....way to remove the context.

If you read directly below that quote, you will soon, depending on reading comprehension ability, realize that I said I'm not comparing them as players.

I'm only stating that Lee doesn't really have playmaking ability, he's a typical solid PSU linebacker, while Washington could be special.

Thanks for the insult & personal attack, but if you're not somehow comparing them, you wouldn't have used a name. Seems like I wasn't the only one thinking the statement was off base. Have a good day!!!

BTW since I have no reading comprehension, I guess I couldn't spell the words I really wanted to type.

 

[Buckybird]

I'm just not seeing what K9, Stout, and Bucky are seeing. I watched three different highlights/lowlight packages and two full games and he is behind the line of scrimmage ALL THE TIME. His speed at LB is crazy and his insitincts and reactions are A+ IMO. I am watching him diagnose a play and then be through the line so quickly, I can't see how many don't see a faster version of Karlos.

AF, I've watched every game this kid played the last 2 years. Great athlete, but things he did in games never left me saying afterwards, "Wow he's going to be a good one". Washington will probably be a solid player, but I never saw him do things in a game that stood out making me think he's going to be the special player that everyone thinks he will be.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[BigDavis75]

I understand that the Will in our system isn't supposed to have blockers on him, but the reality is that he will face off consistently against guys who have a good 65-75 pounds on him.Washington is going to be a huge liability in the run game no matter how you look at it. Couple an unknown in Williams with a huge injury question mark in our thumper position and the outlook is pretty grim for Washington's early prospects.

Also, those praising his ability to make plays behind the line, I doubt we see that come to fruition. If the WILB in our system is consistently dropping, how often will he actually be able to penetrate and make plays?

 

[kerouac9]

I'm just not seeing what K9, Stout, and Bucky are seeing. I watched three different highlights/lowlight packages and two full games and he is behind the line of scrimmage ALL THE TIME. His speed at LB is crazy and his insitincts and reactions are A+ IMO. I am watching him diagnose a play and then be through the line so quickly, I can't see how many don't see a faster version of Karlos.

Like Dansby he won't be the ideal hat on hat guy and will probably get engulfed on plays from time to time. He's not a thumper and in this systems, the WILB isn't supposed to be. But in terms of teams trying to turn the corner on us or string a sweep out? He is going to be the main guy blowing up those plays. And I also think his coverage in space is strong too.

Watching the tape has him sticking out like a sore thumb too me. Our defense is going to be faaaaaast.

Again--I hope that I'm wrong. But wouldn't this huge playmaker actually--I don't know--make some plays that show up on the stat sheet? Where are the game-changing plays against good teams?

I will give Daryl credit for playing hard in the Fiesta Bowl. Bob Kemp was talking about him Friday, and mentioned that Hughes was playing in that game not to get hurt, but Daryl was playing all-out.

But if you want to point out his big plays on that youtube video at the minute/second mark, I'll go back and look again.

 

[ajcardfan]

Counting on youtube to prove, or disprove, anything about a NFL draftee's true ability is dicey at best.

 

[WildBB]

I understand that the Will in our system isn't supposed to have blockers on him, but the reality is that he will face off consistently against guys who have a good 65-75 pounds on him.Washington is going to be a huge liability in the run game no matter how you look at it. Couple an unknown in Williams with a huge injury question mark in our thumper position and the outlook is pretty grim for Washington's early prospects.

Also, those praising his ability to make plays behind the line, I doubt we see that come to fruition. If the WILB in our system is consistently dropping, how often will he actually be able to penetrate and make plays?

They're not, like with all the rookies in the past 3 yrs, going to throw him to the Lions....or 9ers , Hags...ect.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Again--I hope that I'm wrong. But wouldn't this huge playmaker actually--I don't know--make some plays that show up on the stat sheet? Where are the game-changing plays against good teams?

I will give Daryl credit for playing hard in the Fiesta Bowl. Bob Kemp was talking about him Friday, and mentioned that Hughes was playing in that game not to get hurt, but Daryl was playing all-out.

But if you want to point out his big plays on that youtube video at the minute/second mark, I'll go back and look again.

The loss of four-year starting inside linebacker Jason Phillips to the NFL put Washington under the microscope. He helped TCU repeat as the FBS' top-rated defense in terms of total yardage (sixth in scoring) by leading the team with 109 tackles, 11 for loss, two sacks and three interceptions. Washington had never started regularly before 2009.

He had been a solid contributor, making a strong statement on special teams his first two seasons by blocking four kicks and leading the kick coverage units.

3 1/2 TFL in the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl (biggest game, best team faced)

Being only a starter for one year limits the ability to have numerous game changing plays over your career, but he had a stellar year as a starter (leading the team in tackles, and being the ILB fulcrum behind the best defense in the nation)

But all that is moot. Here is my main point.

Guess whose numbers these are......

TCKL109

SCK
1.0

FF
1

INT
1

IIRC you seem to be this guys biggest proponent and wanted to give him upward of 20+ million guranteed. Other then making big plays in the biggest game of the season (much like Washington) he didn't seem to have all that many "big plays" either. And he is a 5 year NFL vet in the prime of his career. Stats don't always tell the whole story, and sometimes the lack of "stats" is a byproduct of the position.

Maybe a bit of perspective, eh? Los's senior season numbers are pretty similar to Washington's as well.

Maybe if we get him up to 235-240 like Los we have a player on our hands....

 

[football karma]

taking various college post-season honors doesn't guarantee that a player will be a good NFL player -- but it does indicate that he played the game at a high level on the collegiate level. As posted earlier, Washington made a variety of all-american teams after the season.

this is more than a speed prospect who doesn't make any plays or impact--- an example of a player like that is Jamar Cheney of Miss State, who went quite a bit later in the draft.

 

[kerouac9]

The loss of four-year starting inside linebacker Jason Phillips to the NFL put Washington under the microscope. He helped TCU repeat as the FBS' top-rated defense in terms of total yardage (sixth in scoring) by leading the team with 109 tackles, 11 for loss, two sacks and three interceptions. Washington had never started regularly before 2009.

He had been a solid contributor, making a strong statement on special teams his first two seasons by blocking four kicks and leading the kick coverage units.

3 1/2 TFL in the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl (biggest game, best team faced)

Being only a starter for one year limits the ability to have numerous game changing plays over your career, but he had a stellar year as a starter (leading the team in tackles, and being the ILB fulcrum behind the best defense in the nation)

But all that is moot. Here is my main point.

Guess whose numbers these are......

TCKL109

SCK
1.0

FF
1

INT
1

IIRC you seem to be this guys biggest proponent and wanted to give him upward of 20+ million guranteed. Other then making big plays in the biggest game of the season (much like Washington) he didn't seem to have all that many "big plays" either. And he is a 5 year NFL vet in the prime of his career. Stats don't always tell the whole story, and sometimes the lack of "stats" is a byproduct of the position.

Maybe a bit of perspective, eh? Los's senior season numbers are pretty similar to Washington's as well.

Maybe if we get him up to 235-240 like Los we have a player on our hands....

Could you show these to me? Honestly, I spent 20 minutes last night looking for 'Los's Auburn stats from his senior season, and I couldn't find them. Make me feel better.

As for 'Los's stats last season--he was playing injured half the year, and was still one of the two most consistent players on our defense. And don't think that I didn't see you omit his 4 passes defensed from last year.

I watched all three of those TFL's in the youtube video I posted. All of them were him coming up after another player had either stretched out a play or wrapped up the ball carrier.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

to say Dansby didn't make big plays is just not wanting to like him. The guy has made big plays for years. If Washington even approaches KD's production, and big play ability, the Cards will have gotten a steal in round 2.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlos_Dansby

He was First-team All-America and a First-team All-Southeastern Conference selection as a senior when he had 84 tackles (50 solo), 5.5 sacks, 13 stops for losses, 6 pass deflections, 4 caused fumbles

I never heard Karlos injuries as a reason for lack of numbers. I remember it being that he brought alot to the table that the untrained eye couldn't see and that stats didn't tell the whole story because of this coverage responsibilities. But you and others were adamant that he was worth the contract he was asking for.

I think the same can be said for Daryl, and lo and behold, hes replacing Karlos so that should be expected.

If you ask me I think Washington will give us similar "numbers" at 1/20th the price, maybe even next year depending on how legit the smarts he has are.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

to say Dansby didn't make big plays is just not wanting to like him. The guy has made big plays for years. If Washington even approaches KD's production, and big play ability, the Cards will have gotten a steal in round 2.

Not what I as saying at all. My point is stats don't always tell the whole story for WILB's or ILB's in college.

But for the record I was one of the people who didn't want to spend that money on Los.

K9 let me ask you this. What ILB prospect do you think is stronger in coverage then Washington? Weatherspoon? Lee? Don't just look at passes defensed, but atheltic ability, sideline to sideline range, and how close to an NFL scheme the defense they played in was.

It was a position that needed to be replaced and for what we look for out of the WILB, he fits better then maybe anyone. Maybe even McClain.

 

[BigDavis75]

Not what I as saying at all. My point is stats don't always tell the whole story for WILB's or ILB's in college.

But for the record I was one of the people who didn't want to spend that money on Los.

K9 let me ask you this. What ILB prospect do you think is stronger in coverage then Washington? Weatherspoon? Lee? Don't just look at passes defensed, but atheltic ability, sideline to sideline range, and how close to an NFL scheme the defense they played in was.

It was a position that needed to be replaced and for what we look for out of the WILB, he fits better then maybe anyone. Maybe even McClain.

Even if he is as good as people think in pass coverage, he is still a one-dimensional player who is a tremendous liability in the run game. Is there any evidence he can play at 235, any at all? Posting Karlos stats is not an argument I can buy. Karlos was playing with a ton of injuries and basically won the Packers game for us, which is something those stats fail to capture. Washington should be putting up far better numbers on that defense in that conference.

 

[kerouac9]

All right, AZF, so we can put to bed any talk that Daryl Washington is even close to the prospect that Karlos Dansby was coming out of college. Three-year starter at a top conference versus a one-year wonder at a conference that is barely in the FBS. Not even close.

It's not just about coverage. We really don't know how good Daryl Washington is in coverage, because he didn't make enough plays in college in coverage against good teams. What we know is that he has a fast 40 time. Congratulations. If I said the same thing about a prospect that you didn't like, then I'd deservedly get met with skepticism.

I liked Sean Weatherpoon and Sean Lee as better overall prospects than Daryl Washington, because they were better overall prospects. Karlos Dansby didn't just play in coverage. He also cleaned up against the run and applied some pressure in the passing game (5 QB hits, 7 QB pressures last season). I don't think that you really want your ILB to be in coverage as frequently as Los was, but he had to be because Rolle and Wilson were weak coverage safeties.

You can spin that Daryl Washington might--eventually--fit a need better than any of the other prospects, but don't tell me that drafting for need has served this team well over the last decade. There were better prospects available where Washington was picked, and the price that we paid to move up to get him was far too high.

Would I rather have Pat Angerer (and if any team knows about cover LBs, it's the Indanapolis Colts) and Navorro Bowman or Jimmy Graham than just Daryl Washington? You're damn right I would.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If you ask me I think Washington will give us similar "numbers" at 1/20th the price, maybe even next year depending on how legit the smarts he has are.

wow.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

wow.

If you are reading into the context of my post, you'll notice the concentration on the word "numbers". I am not assuming a rookie second round pick is going to come in and be everything an above average LB'er for a two time playoff time was.

But 109 tackles, 1 INT, and 1 FF are not exactly astronomical numbers to reach Cheese, would you agree with that? Thats the point.

I get the feeling in your reply you will point to another facet of the discussion to make your point, but I am asking you focus your reply on that specific question. Is it outrageous to think that Washington ( a 2nd rd pick earmarked to start) could approach those numbers in his rookie year? Or certainly in years 2 or 3?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

All right, AZF, so we can put to bed any talk that Daryl Washington is even close to the prospect that Karlos Dansby was coming out of college. Three-year starter at a top conference versus a one-year wonder at a conference that is barely in the FBS. Not even close.

It's not just about coverage. We really don't know how good Daryl Washington is in coverage, because he didn't make enough plays in college in coverage against good teams. What we know is that he has a fast 40 time. Congratulations. If I said the same thing about a prospect that you didn't like, then I'd deservedly get met with skepticism.

I liked Sean Weatherpoon and Sean Lee as better overall prospects than Daryl Washington, because they were better overall prospects. Karlos Dansby didn't just play in coverage. He also cleaned up against the run and applied some pressure in the passing game (5 QB hits, 7 QB pressures last season). I don't think that you really want your ILB to be in coverage as frequently as Los was, but he had to be because Rolle and Wilson were weak coverage safeties.

You can spin that Daryl Washington might--eventually--fit a need better than any of the other prospects, but don't tell me that drafting for need has served this team well over the last decade. There were better prospects available where Washington was picked, and the price that we paid to move up to get him was far too high.

Would I rather have Pat Angerer (and if any team knows about cover LBs, it's the Indanapolis Colts) and Navorro Bowman or Jimmy Graham than just Daryl Washington? You're damn right I would.

Listen lets just call it like it is. I don't think Karlos Dansby is nearly as good as you do. I don't feel like he was the run stopper you seem to think he was and I certainly don't think its crazy to think Washington will be better at getting to the QB with his speed.

I think this is national perception as well. I live here in Miami and I get the feeling many educated fans here are going to look at Karlos having middling numbers on a middling defense and wonder "Why the hell are we paying this guy all this money?" and the refrains about his excellent coverage skills, injuries, or being a defensive leader will be of little solace.

Thats only if (as I expect) the reason isn't apparent because he gets lazy after cashing in and enjoying South Beach likely more then he should.

To me Dansby was one of the better coverage LB's in the NFL. But he wasn't the "overall" prospect you seem to think he was. Thats why for what he did for this defense, I think Washington will be able to excel like Dansby in coverage and maybe even intime he will diagnose better and be a faster version, at least from what I have seen on tape.

I liked him from the beginning and if you want to talk about a prospect who has little impressive video and made his name on a combine performance, it is Weatherspoon.

I like Lee, but find his physical skill unremarkable and feel he would have been exposed in coverage. Keep in mind the WILB is the position we are replacing.

But we can leave it that. These are all opinions and it seems like the coaching staff seems to side with what I see as well so its not like I am the only one seeing what I want to see. We'll discuss midway through the season and see where he is at. I imagine Dansby will have a quick impact and Washington will take time to adjust, but I am confident enough in the coaching staff that we will see enough good from Washington to know he was the right pick.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Thanks for the insult & personal attack, but if you're not somehow comparing them, you wouldn't have used a name. Seems like I wasn't the only one thinking the statement was off base. Have a good day!!!

BTW since I have no reading comprehension, I guess I couldn't spell the words I really wanted to type.

Sean Lee is like Rob Fredrickson while Washington is like Jamir Miller.

I'm not saying their similar style players, what I'm saying is that Lee will be a solid player if he plays to his capability while Washington could be a big time playmaker.

Get upset if you must, but I took your emoticon as being snarky/snide. I see your skin is not as thick as your skull (I'm joking btw).

Upon reading it again I could see how I wasn't totally clear. I believe you probably misunderstood my statement "not saying their similar style players", with you taking away the idea that I was saying that Lee and Washington weren't similar style players. I really meant to say that Miller and Washington are not, but both players are playmakers.