Awwww.....Washington, Wa-shing-ton...

[Krangodnzr]

Listen lets just call it like it is. I don't think Karlos Dansby is nearly as good as you do. I don't feel like he was the run stopper you seem to think he was and I certainly don't think its crazy to think Washington will be better at getting to the QB with his speed.

I think this is national perception as well. I live here in Miami and I get the feeling many educated fans here are going to look at Karlos having middling numbers on a middling defense and wonder "Why the hell are we paying this guy all this money?" and the refrains about his excellent coverage skills, injuries, or being a defensive leader will be of little solace.

Thats only if (as I expect) the reason isn't apparent because he gets lazy after cashing in and enjoying South Beach likely more then he should.

To me Dansby was one of the better coverage LB's in the NFL. But he wasn't the "overall" prospect you seem to think he was. Thats why for what he did for this defense, I think Washington will be able to excel like Dansby in coverage and maybe even intime he will diagnose better and be a faster version, at least from what I have seen on tape.

I liked him from the beginning and if you want to talk about a prospect who has little impressive video and made his name on a combine performance, it is Weatherspoon.

I like Lee, but find his physical skill unremarkable and feel he would have been exposed in coverage. Keep in mind the WILB is the position we are replacing.

But we can leave it that. These are all opinions and it seems like the coaching staff seems to side with what I see as well so its not like I am the only one seeing what I want to see. We'll discuss midway through the season and see where he is at. I imagine Dansby will have a quick impact and Washington will take time to adjust, but I am confident enough in the coaching staff that we will see enough good from Washington to know he was the right pick.

Agree 100%

Dansby was good, but I always felt something was missing in his game. People remember the interceptions and sacks, but forget watching a 250 lb WILB getting pushed around in the run game. As a larger ILB, he was NEVER good taking on blocks and frequently ran around them. His game is flawed, but his other skills make him still a very good, not great player.

Ultimately, Washington will probably be a similar player, at a fraction of the the cost. And the obvious faith the organization has in him, and how much they value him makes me believe in him more. This isn't the Cardinals of the Tobin/Mac era, this team doesn't draft for need at every pick, if they believe in a player they're not afraid to make a move to get that player, and have an actual draft strategy that works. I also believe in the coaching ability and the strength and conditioning staff, which leads me to believe that any player we draft WILL get better.

I know K9 keeps comparing Washington to Ray Thompson (who was around 215 when we drafted him). That's ignoring objective facts: 1. The Whiz coaching staff develops players talents. 2. John Lott develops players physically. 3. The overall talent level of the team has improved dramatically since the days of Ray Thompson (and thus players can perform better since they don't have to worry about everyone around them sucking).

Finally, KARLOS DANSBY IS ONE OF (IF NOT THE) HIGHEST PAID LINEBACKERS IN THE LEAGUE! He isn't worth that kind of cheddar, I know that, K9 probably knows that, and the Janitors working at University of Phoenix know that. Daryl Washington is the closest player to Karlos Dansby since Karlos Dansby and I'm pleased as punch that the Cardinals didn't sit back and let one of the guys they zeroed in on get out of their grasp!

 

[Buckybird]

Get upset if you must, but I took your emoticon as being snarky/snide. I see your skin is not as thick as your skull (I'm joking btw).

Upon reading it again I could see how I wasn't totally clear. I believe you probably misunderstood my statement "not saying their similar style players", with you taking away the idea that I was saying that Lee and Washington weren't similar style players. I really meant to say that Miller and Washington are not, but both players are playmakers.

gotcha!!! no prob my man

 

[Cheesebeef]

Finally, KARLOS DANSBY IS ONE OF (IF NOT THE) HIGHEST PAID LINEBACKERS IN THE LEAGUE! He isn't worth that kind of cheddar, I know that, K9 probably knows that, and the Janitors working at University of Phoenix know that.

I'll take Bill Parcells opinion over yours, K9 and the Janitors working at the UoP any day of the week.

Having high hopes for Washington is one thing and understandable. Saying you can expect he can do similar things that Los could this year isn't... at least not IMO anyway.

 

[Shane]

I'll take Bill Parcells opinion over yours, K9 and the Janitors working at the UoP any day of the week.

Having high hopes for Washington is one thing and understandable. Saying you can expect he can do similar things that Los could this year isn't... at least not IMO anyway.

Whats wrong with saying he could do similar things? Being similar and exactly the same are different. He may do some things similar. He may do some things better. Its not as though ILB has a huge learning curve in the NFL. Its one of those positons where players can come in and do rather well from the get go.

 

[187]

Even if he is as good as people think in pass coverage, he is still a one-dimensional player who is a tremendous liability in the run game. Is there any evidence he can play at 235, any at all? Posting Karlos stats is not an argument I can buy. Karlos was playing with a ton of injuries and basically won the Packers game for us, which is something those stats fail to capture. Washington should be putting up far better numbers on that defense in that conference.

http://www.azcardinals.com/photos-v...nce-Call/4dba5c1f-da2b-4dc4-b27c-4112c277e380

1:23

He expects to weigh at least 235 pounds by training camp and according to that call he has played and felt comfortable at 235 in the past. Most 3-4 ILB's play at 240 pounds (Willis, D'Qwell Jackson) and Lawrence Timmons plays at 'only' 234. Los was not impressive at shedding blocks for a 250 pounder, so weight doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[juza76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw_Vmqe9H88&feature=related
check this video...daryl washington showed good speed chasing CJ Spiller....this is the play the coach was talking about in the press conference

 

[kerouac9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw_Vmqe9H88&feature=related
check this video...daryl washington showed good speed chasing CJ Spiller....this is the play the coach was talking about in the press conference

Is it the best idea to put a video up where a running back has an eight-yard cushion in man coverage the best way to support D. Washington's cover skills? Isn't it like showing the Donald Driver overthrow to highlight Anrel Rolle's coverage skills?

Just askin'.

 

[juza76]

Is it the best idea to put a video up where a running back has an eight-yard cushion in man coverage the best way to support D. Washington's cover skills? Isn't it like showing the Donald Driver overthrow to highlight Anrel Rolle's coverage skills?

Just askin'.

i didnt put this video to show his cover skills ....

 

[Shogun]

Is it the best idea to put a video up where a running back has an eight-yard cushion in man coverage the best way to support D. Washington's cover skills? Isn't it like showing the Donald Driver overthrow to highlight Anrel Rolle's coverage skills?

Just askin'.

check this video...daryl washington showed good speed chasing CJ Spiller....this is the play the coach was talking about in the press conference

EDIT: juza posts video displaying Washington's speed and your first reaction to complain about coverage, K9?

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'll take Bill Parcells opinion over yours, K9 and the Janitors working at the UoP any day of the week.

Having high hopes for Washington is one thing and understandable. Saying you can expect he can do similar things that Los could this year isn't... at least not IMO anyway.

Last I checked, Coach Whisenhunt has gone to and nearly won a Super Bowl recently. I'll take his opinion over you and K9's any day of the week until he proves that he's wrong. Coach Whiz was obviously ecstatic about the pick, and if he's excited, so am I.

And it's not like he doesn't make mistakes either. He draft Bobby Carpenter in the first round and Carpenter has only be average.

 

[JeffGollin]

I never heard Karlos injuries as a ...had a really bad turf toe one season.[/COLOR]

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I do. He had a really bad turf toe one season.

Cool. I was talking about his numbers from last season though. And even with an injury its not really my point. Its that the Defenders of Dansby that will go to great lengths to explain away every facet of why he may or may not have had numbers in any given year.

 

[Cardiac]

Cool. I was talking about his numbers from last season though. And even with an injury its not really my point. Its that the Defenders of Dansby that will go to great lengths to explain away every facet of why he may or may not have had numbers in any given year.

IIRC he had shoulder issues, partially separated I think.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Cool. I was talking about his numbers from last season though. And even with an injury its not really my point. Its that the Defenders of Dansby that will go to great lengths to explain away every facet of why he may or may not have had numbers in any given year.

i defend Dansby and think he was the best player on the defense for years. I'm not basing it on any numbers, i'm going by watching the games and seeing that he was THE guy on our defense.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

i defend Dansby and think he was the best player on the defense for years. I'm not basing it on any numbers, i'm going by watching the games and seeing that he was THE guy on our defense.

Echh this is not where I wanted this to go. I like Dansby too and think he is a nice player. I don't think he is worth the contract he got in Miami. I am using my eyes from watching every game for the last 5 years on that one.

This is water under the bridge for me. I just think Washington will be able to provide much of what Dansby did in the next couple years, and he may not have the numbers either when its all said and done. I like his skill set quite a bit if that wasnt already apparent.

And I really disagree with him being the best player on defense. Thats a major affront to Dockett and Wilson IMHO. But everyones got opinions so its all good i guess.

I really hate it when a single point is taken out of my post and addressed, when it takes the actual theme of my post out of context. But I responded so its my fault.

Theres no use debating Dansby anymore cause he is gone. I dont think what he brought was worth 20 million guranteed. You do. Thats all good.

Now lets all get on the Washington bandwagon, shall we?

 

[kerouac9]

Now lets all get on the Washington bandwagon, shall we?

Let's all agree on this: Daryl Washington needs to beat out the sucktacular Paris Lenon by let's say Week 4? I don't really want to see that dude locked up on Darren Sproles or Antonio Gates.

Better the guy you're not sure can play than the guy you know can't.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Echh this is not where I wanted this to go. I like Dansby too and think he is a nice player. I don't think he is worth the contract he got in Miami. I am using my eyes from watching every game for the last 5 years on that one.

This is water under the bridge for me. I just think Washington will be able to provide much of what Dansby did in the next couple years, and he may not have the numbers either when its all said and done. I like his skill set quite a bit if that wasnt already apparent.

And I really disagree with him being the best player on defense. Thats a major affront to Dockett and Wilson IMHO. But everyones got opinions so its all good i guess.

I really hate it when a single point is taken out of my post and addressed, when it takes the actual theme of my post out of context. But I responded so its my fault.

Theres no use debating Dansby anymore cause he is gone. I dont think what he brought was worth 20 million guranteed. You do. Thats all good.

Now lets all get on the Washington bandwagon, shall we?

i have no problem with the Washington pick. Like I said earlier, i hope he turns out to be a Nick Barnett type player.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Let's all agree on this: Daryl Washington needs to beat out the sucktacular Paris Lenon by let's say Week 4? I don't really want to see that dude locked up on Darren Sproles or Antonio Gates.

Better the guy you're not sure can play than the guy you know can't.

Thats tough. I think we all know how Wiz is about playing rookies and even though Beanie was the obvious choice over Timmy by Week 2 or so he didn't get the majority of the carries till Week 10. So thats a difficult measure because he could be ready, but Wiz will hold him back just the same. Plus I gotta think its going to be even more likely with the WILB as there is alot for Washington to learn.

Still if he is as talented as I think he is, that should only hold him back halfway through the season.

How about starting Week 8. By then we should know what we got?

Love the avatar by the way

 

[Krangodnzr]

Let's all agree on this: Daryl Washington needs to beat out the sucktacular Paris Lenon by let's say Week 4? I don't really want to see that dude locked up on Darren Sproles or Antonio Gates.

Better the guy you're not sure can play than the guy you know can't.

We need him to, but that doesn't mean he will taking into account Whiz's disdain for playing rookies. And that's not necessarily an indictment of Washington if that's the case.

It was a real crappy year to try and replace Karlos Dansby, and the fault isn't with the team in my opinion. Dansby did NOT want to be a Cardinal and I think that is proven by his actions and the fact that he only got a small amount greater than the reported offer from the Cardinals.

If I want to play for the Cardinals but want a "market value" contract, I'd take Arizona's reported offer of 8.4 million over the Miami offer of 8.7 million. Dansby didn't get a huge increase from Miami, so it's quite obvious that he just wanted to move on (or he's the mercenary player that we always thought he was and it's better he moved on).

 

[kerouac9]

Thats tough. I think we all know how Wiz is about playing rookies and even though Beanie was the obvious choice over Timmy by Week 2 or so he didn't get the majority of the carries till Week 10. So thats a difficult measure because he could be ready, but Wiz will hold him back just the same. Plus I gotta think its going to be even more likely with the WILB as there is alot for Washington to learn.

Still if he is as talented as I think he is, that should only hold him back halfway through the season.

How about starting Week 8. By then we should know what we got?

Love the avatar by the way

I don't know. The thing is that having Beanie sub in (and he was injured through training camp) wasn't costing us games. Tim Hightower suddenly figured out how to run with the football, although you have to wonder if the Colts game would've been different if Timmy could have done better than 2.4 YPC. Or even the first San Francisco game where all Timmy could muster was 8 carries for 15 yards.

Having Paris Lenon playing beside a crippled Gerald Hayes will cost this team games, and cost them games fairly quickly. We'll see Paris Lenon squaring up against Steven Jackson, Michael Turner, and Micahel Bush/Darren McFadden in the first three weeks of the season. I think that the Cards are more talented than those teams, so they should be able to take two of them.

But I think people don't understand just how terrible Paris Lenon actually is. You cannot compete for a division with Paris Lenon getting starting reps.

The Cards are not going to be playing a ton of power-running teams in the second quarter of the season, but they'll be playing against a lot of teams where they'll be covering out of the backfield and on those outside zones and tosses. How do you think a battle between Paris Lenon and Leon Washington ends?

We can say all we want about how Whis doesn't like to play rookies early, but having Eric Green and Rod Hood playing corner wasn't costing us games. No one thinks that Levi Brown wouldn't have wrested the job from whomever we were going to start at RT his rookie season (Brown? Was that his name?).

If Daryl Washington, even as a rookie, can't beat out the worst starting linebacker in the NFL in the first half of the season, there may be cause for concern.

We need him to, but that doesn't mean he will taking into account Whiz's disdain for playing rookies. And that's not necessarily an indictment of Washington if that's the case.

It was a real crappy year to try and replace Karlos Dansby, and the fault isn't with the team in my opinion. Dansby did NOT want to be a Cardinal and I think that is proven by his actions and the fact that he only got a small amount greater than the reported offer from the Cardinals.

If I want to play for the Cardinals but want a "market value" contract, I'd take Arizona's reported offer of 8.4 million over the Miami offer of 8.7 million. Dansby didn't get a huge increase from Miami, so it's quite obvious that he just wanted to move on (or he's the mercenary player that we always thought he was and it's better he moved on).

I don't want to go into this again, but keep in mind that Florida doesn't have a state tax. That's like Los getting a 15% larger contract. I think that Los wanted to go somewhere where he'd be appreciated, and frankly the Arizona Cardinals didn't do much to show him the love while he was here.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't want to go into this again, but keep in mind that Florida doesn't have a state tax. That's like Los getting a 15% larger contract. I think that Los wanted to go somewhere where he'd be appreciated, and frankly the Arizona Cardinals didn't do much to show him the love while he was here.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on this; as stated before, no state tax means higher taxes on everything else. Arizona has some of the lowest taxes in the country and I doubt the tax burden in Florida overall is lower than Arizonas.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_statetaxrate_az.html

I don't see how he'd make 15% more in Fla when AZ's top tax rate is 4.54%

 

[Stout]

Thats tough. I think we all know how Wiz is about playing rookies and even though Beanie was the obvious choice over Timmy by Week 2 or so he didn't get the majority of the carries till Week 10. So thats a difficult measure because he could be ready, but Wiz will hold him back just the same. Plus I gotta think its going to be even more likely with the WILB as there is alot for Washington to learn.

Still if he is as talented as I think he is, that should only hold him back halfway through the season.

How about starting Week 8. By then we should know what we got?

Love the avatar by the way

Sooo, we didn't draft the guy that could step right into the lineup why? Okay, so that's just projection, but Lee was by far the more accomplished player. We're basically banking purely on athleticism. And, while that's nice to have, and maybe someday he'll be better than Lee, we need Washington to be good NOW. If he isn't, we'll be lucky to only have a slightly losing season. We must not have Paris Lenon starting games for us!

Okay, I'm trying to be universal in defending Whiz in this highly questionable pick, but it's very difficult for me to do. I have to respond when I think something is out of hand. And, if Washington isn't starting until mid-season, we are SCREWED. Whiz knows that, so if he thinks Washington can start, he will start, and not languish on the bench.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Sooo, we didn't draft the guy that could step right into the lineup why? Okay, so that's just projection, but Lee was by far the more accomplished player. We're basically banking purely on athleticism. And, while that's nice to have, and maybe someday he'll be better than Lee, we need Washington to be good NOW. If he isn't, we'll be lucky to only have a slightly losing season. We must not have Paris Lenon starting games for us!

Okay, I'm trying to be universal in defending Whiz in this highly questionable pick, but it's very difficult for me to do. I have to respond when I think something is out of hand. And, if Washington isn't starting until mid-season, we are SCREWED. Whiz knows that, so if he thinks Washington can start, he will start, and not languish on the bench.

Cmon Stout. Beanie Wells is the second coming of Jim Brown IMO and he didn't get starter carries until ten weeks playing behind 5th round pick and second year man Tim Hightower.

DRC, are Pro Bowl corner and all world athlete couldn't beat out ERIC GREEN (who was then made inactive + summarily cut later that season) until late in the year.

It has nothing to do with how good a player is or is not. Whether you want to believe it or not the ready made Lee wouldnt be starting off the bat either. And who the hell makes drafting decisions based on the first 8 games of a season? I'll tell you who - coaches and GMs who are quick to lose their jobs. This is a program, and with that extension Wiz earned he is going to make decisions that are the best for the team for years on end, not for the first 8 games of 2010.

And for Gods sakes can we stop saying Washington is "just an athlete" He might have only started one year because of Jason Phillips ahead of him BUT he had a very good season as the ILB on the best defense in the nation. He has production AND athleticism.

Jesus I feel like this kids agent. I don't see why so many people are scared of what this kid brings to the table, and I don't think the sucktastic Paris Lenon will see the light of day once this kids raring to go by midseason.

I hate to break this to everyone but this is a rebuilding year. Might we win the division? Sure but thats only because everyone else sucks.

The main point is getting our young QB experience (or determining if we need to go in another direction completely) and getting guys like Beanie, Calais, and DRC from being very good to All Pros. If we lose a couple games early because of the way Wiz runs the program then I am okay with that. He knows what he is doing and his bringing rookies along at his pace has worked for every player not named Branch. I am not even sure Williams will be starting come Day one.

Washington will be good and it should say something that the staff had him ranked #12 on their board and traded a third round pick to get him. Its not like this organization has EVER been one to just give up picks to move up. That should tell you something.

Namely that Wiz and Kiem know what they are doing.

 

[WildBB]

I don't know. The thing is that having Beanie sub in (and he was injured through training camp) wasn't costing us games. Tim Hightower suddenly figured out how to run with the football, although you have to wonder if the Colts game would've been different if Timmy could have done better than 2.4 YPC. Or even the first San Francisco game where all Timmy could muster was 8 carries for 15 yards.

As the year progressed, the team also continued to go with HT opening up games to soften the D's and Beanie coming in behind. I even remember Beanie coming in 2nd downs after a 1st down pass with HT in on 2nd and 5 or less.

In that SF game he also led the team in recieving. Not one of Warners or the OL's better efforts. They'll (OL) have to step it up this year against them, in both runnig and passing games.

 

[kerouac9]

Cmon Stout. Beanie Wells is the second coming of Jim Brown IMO and he didn't get starter carries until ten weeks playing behind 5th round pick and second year man Tim Hightower.

DRC, are Pro Bowl corner and all world athlete couldn't beat out ERIC GREEN (who was then made inactive + summarily cut later that season) until late in the year.

It has nothing to do with how good a player is or is not. Whether you want to believe it or not the ready made Lee wouldnt be starting off the bat either. And who the hell makes drafting decisions based on the first 8 games of a season? I'll tell you who - coaches and GMs who are quick to lose their jobs. This is a program, and with that extension Wiz earned he is going to make decisions that are the best for the team for years on end, not for the first 8 games of 2010.

And for Gods sakes can we stop saying Washington is "just an athlete" He might have only started one year because of Jason Phillips ahead of him BUT he had a very good season as the ILB on the best defense in the nation. He has production AND athleticism.

Jesus I feel like this kids agent. I don't see why so many people are scared of what this kid brings to the table, and I don't think the sucktastic Paris Lenon will see the light of day once this kids raring to go by midseason.

I hate to break this to everyone but this is a rebuilding year. Might we win the division? Sure but thats only because everyone else sucks.

The main point is getting our young QB experience (or determining if we need to go in another direction completely) and getting guys like Beanie, Calais, and DRC from being very good to All Pros. If we lose a couple games early because of the way Wiz runs the program then I am okay with that. He knows what he is doing and his bringing rookies along at his pace has worked for every player not named Branch. I am not even sure Williams will be starting come Day one.

Washington will be good and it should say something that the staff had him ranked #12 on their board and traded a third round pick to get him. Its not like this organization has EVER been one to just give up picks to move up. That should tell you something.

Namely that Wiz and Kiem know what they are doing.

You raise an interesting question (I'm sorry if I'm going to distract from people wanting to criticize Daryl Johnson--is there anything more to be said on that point still?)--what counts as "starter's carries" in today's NFL? Yes, Chris Johnson averaged 22+ touches a game for the Titans, but that was essentially a one-man operation all season long.

The Cards are going to run essentially a platoon at the RB position for at least the next year or two. Bad for fantasy owners, but hopefully good for the Cards as it will allow tread to stay on the tires of the former 31st overall pick.

But when did Beanie Wells start pulling his share of the platoon last season? I was looking around for some other teams around the NFL that run platoons. Joesph Addai in Indy averaged 14.6 carries per game (CPG) in Indy. Brandon Jacobs averaged 14.9 with the Giants. Stunningly, LDT averaged 15.9 CPG while averaging 3.27 ypc(!). Jonathan Stewart averaged 13.8 carries in Carolina spitting time with DeAngelo Williams (16.6 CPG).

In 2009, the Cards averaged 22.81 rushes per game. That's well below the NFL median of 27.4 per game. Actually, it was the lowest number in the NFL. But mathematically that would make the starter's share anything over 11 carries per game.

Based on that, Beanie Wells assumed the starter's share of the carries on October 18, 2009 against the Seattle Seahawks. A mere 6 weeks--and 5 games--into the season.

That was without a training camp. As I said, I think that the coaching staff's aversion to playing rookies is overstated. DRC played more defensive snaps his rookie year than anyone except Adrian Wilson and Antrel Rolle. He was in for more snaps than Gerald Hayes. Rookie Steve Breaston saw more snaps that Jeremhe Urban or Sean Morey in 2007.

I don't think that it's unreasonable to see apparent future pro bowler Daryl Washington start very early in his career when his competition is a player that is very nearly worse than nothing at all.