Ayton’s Blocks

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think part of the problem with this is that he has such a mature game in so many ways - it stands out that aspects of his defense are substandard. If he were a more middling player perhaps his defensive weaknesses wouldn't be in the spotlight so much.

I don't have an issue with people saying he needs to improve on defense. My issue is with comments that seem to already suggest that he will always be a negative on that end.

 

[GatorAZ]

He has played all of 6 games and has at times looked pretty good on defense and at times pretty bad. Are we really going to already just going to assume that he will be a negative on defense?

No we’re not seeing as my hypothetical was, well, a hypothetical.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't have an issue with people saying he needs to improve on defense. My issue is with comments that seem to already suggest that he will always be a negative on that end.

That and the idea it's a lack of effort on his part. Also, I don't think his defense is as weak as it's made out to be.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think for me the top 10 looks something like

1. Jackson's regression
2. PG play
3. The vets being near "unplayable"
4. Booker's defensive effort
5. Ayton's rim protection
6. Bridges not getting more mins
7. Warren not getting more mins
8. James Jones/Sarver making a panic trade by overpaying
9. Suns scheme leading to way too many turnovers
10. Fastbreak defense

This is actually a really interesting topic. Let me take a stab at it too.
1. Turnovers.
2. Josh Jackson. Everything about him. He is this high on my list because he is so damn talented.
3. Point Guard situation.
4. Defense (related to turnovers.)
5. Three-point shooting (very much related to the veterans on the team as well as JJ.)
6. Booker flat-out refusing to play defense.

The rest... not significant. If the Suns are patient and don't panic, things will sort themselves out. Anderson and Ariza will pick it up, Warren and Bridges will get more time as the season progresses, and Anderson, Ariza, and Chandler will be gone next year, Ayton will only keep getting better.

 

[GatorAZ]

So, disagreeing is being "sensitive"? From my perspective, the house is falling down and a few of you are complaining about the only wall left standing. And it seems strange that people are lauding the performances of other rookies that don't play anywhere near the defense Ayton does while ripping Deandre for his defensive effort.

IMO he isn't the reason our defense is horrible. He doesn't block shots and he is confused about help-side defense but I don't buy the "lack of effort" idea at all. He has the best DBPM on the team (for players with at least 25 minutes total). If everyone else was doing their job, we'd be a pretty good defensive team even with his low block rate.

I think there’s some sensitivity when concerns about his defense are met with offensive stat lines in response. I wasn’t calling you specifically sensitive but I think people are just concerned about the teams terrible start and don’t want to hear anymore negativity than there already is.

And has a guy who was higher on Doncic than most fans I’ve already said on here numerous times that we would not be better with him instead of Ayton. In fact we’d pribably be worse considering the roster makeup.

 

[Yuma]

I think there’s some sensitivity when concerns about his defense are met with offensive stat lines in response. I wasn’t calling you specifically sensitive but I think people are just concerned about the teams terrible start and don’t want to hear anymore negativity than there already is.

And has a guy who was higher on Doncic than most fans I’ve already said on here numerous times that we would not be better with him instead of Ayton. In fact we’d pribably be worse considering the roster makeup.

Could you not imagine had we went all in and taken them 1 and 2? Doncic, Booker, and Ayton on the court at the same time? Both Doncic and Ayton can pass like crazy, and Booker is the ultimate shooter (aside from Curry). Just think of the ball movement!

 

[Mainstreet]

Could you not imagine had we went all in and taken them 1 and 2? Doncic, Booker, and Ayton on the court at the same time? Both Doncic and Ayton can pass like crazy, and Booker is the ultimate shooter (aside from Curry). Just think of the ball movement!

I think it's time to cut back on whatever you are having!

 

[GatorAZ]

Could you not imagine had we went all in and taken them 1 and 2? Doncic, Booker, and Ayton on the court at the same time? Both Doncic and Ayton can pass like crazy, and Booker is the ultimate shooter (aside from Curry). Just think of the ball movement!

I still remember Sheridan trying to get our hopes up on draft night:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mainstreet]

I still remember Sheridan trying to get our hopes up on draft night:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

That was a tease. And then when the Suns made a trade everyone's hopes still went though the roof.

It took a long time for me to accept the Suns had not traded for Shai.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Maybe we should get Nerlens to play along side Ayton. If he could add a 3 he would perfect!

 

[slinslin]

We have so many things to complain about but I'm surprised how much negativity is aimed at Ayton. You'd never know he's just barely 20 years old and our best performer to date, and it's not even close.

...

If he averaged 2 blocks per game right now already he would be frontrunner to make all-nba teams as a rookie center.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If we had traded for Shai there would have been no end to the griping about McD’s weird obsession with Kentucky guards.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If we had traded for Shai there would have been no end to the griping about McD’s weird obsession with Kentucky guards.

True but I can live with the "stigma" of drafting Booker AND a good 2 way point guard from the same school.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We have so many things to complain about but I'm surprised how much negativity is aimed at Ayton. You'd never know he's just barely 20 years old and our best performer to date, and it's not even close.

It’s not so much negativity as much as observation regarding a weak point. Do his pluses outweigh his minuses? Absolutely and by a wide margin. But that doesn’t mean the lack of rim protection doesn’t exist. I mean, every single one of us has lauded his production elsewhere - no one is denying that or even missing singing his praises - but it doesn’t mean he’s perfect or that his miscues can’t be discussed. I don’t understand how some of you are so black and white in a world that is shades of gray.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It’s not so much negativity as much as observation regarding a weak point. Do his pluses outweigh his minuses? Absolutely and by a wide margin. But that doesn’t mean the lack of rim protection doesn’t exist. I mean, every single one of us has lauded his production elsewhere - no one is denying that or even missing singing his praises - but it doesn’t mean he’s perfect or that his miscues can’t be discussed. I don’t understand how some of you are so black and white in a world that is shades of gray.

I wasn't talking about the thread so much as the last few posts prior to mine - and the idea that he gives no effort on defense.

 

[sunsfan88]

I wasn't talking about the thread so much as the last few posts prior to mine - and the idea that he gives no effort on defense.

One of those posts was a direct response to a post by the OP and another by me (which made me mention of effort) in response to that post.

But to your point, no he isn’t making much of an effort at protecting the right now. He’s only 19 and he has only played like 5 or 6 games in the NBA so yeah he can improve but right now, he’s not showing much effort at protecting the rim.

He has, however, been surprisingly engaged and done well on switches on to guards and forwards.

 

[sunsfan88]

Ayton has zero blocks in his last 3 games and just 4 in 7 games this season.

 

[BC867]

Ayton has zero blocks in his last 3 games and just 4 in 7 games this season.

I still think that he is trying to stay out of foul trouble as his first impression with the refs.

If that's true, I wouldn't blame him. It is just not worth a couple of blocks per game to risk foul trouble and a reputation.

 

[Superbone]

I still think that he is trying to stay out of foul trouble as his first impression with the refs.

If that's true, I wouldn't blame him. It is just not worth a couple of blocks per game to risk foul trouble and a reputation.

I'm sorry but you can't consistently let the other team waltz past you to the basket and not try to stop them. You think Embiid or Gobert would allow that? Our new star player is far from perfect and has a long way to go on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'm sorry but you can't consistently let the other team waltz past you to the basket and not try to stop them. You think Embiid or Gobert would allow that? Our new star player is far from perfect and has a long way to go on the defensive side of the ball.

What he is mentioning is that he is getting called for a lot of fouls while attempting to contest shots. Once Ayton figures out how to contest shots without getting called for the foul so often he will block more shots. I think he understands that he is extremely important to the offensive effort and it hurts the team when he is sent to the bench with foul trouble. He isn't as aggressive going after blocks as a lot of other young bigs, but he is also more important to his team's offense than most rookie bigs are to their team's offense.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here's a quote from Ayton about the San Antonio game and how the refs have been treating him.

“I felt like I was getting hooked every time. I was talking to the refs, and I basically got the rookie treatment. They don’t respond or they don’t hear me.”

Ayton said when he finally tried to stop Aldridge's hook, he got called for a foul.

"I just got to put reps in, try to get my respect in the league," Ayton said.

It was also said that he spoke with Mark West after the game about his defense and play against Aldridge. I think he knows he can't get away with a lot as a rookie and I know this isn't specifically about his blocked shots but as he learns the NBA game more, he should get more blocks.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...x-suns-sixth-straight-loss-120-90/1842945002/

 

[95pro]

I personally think you have to establish yourself quickly, kind of like prison. Instead you'll get labeled as such early on and its hard to shake that image. Remember its always that first impression you make.

But that's what makes this a crappy league at times, preferential treatment. I don't think being polite is the right way to go about this, we see nice guys in the league treat the refs with respect but never get call to go their way. Who comes to mind is Grant Hill, all the respect in the world from players, coaches and the media but he seemed to get hosed by the refs.

 

[Covert Rain]

He is a freaking rookie. This league is faster. The league is bigger. The rules benefit offensive players. The kid is doing pretty well. He is just going to have to power through not having any respect right now.

 

[Hoop Head]

He is a freaking rookie. This league is faster. The league is bigger. The rules benefit offensive players. The kid is doing pretty well. He is just going to have to power through not having any respect right now.

Exactly! In high school and college, his size made him unique and an anomaly. In the NBA, there is probably 2 or 3 players on our's and our opponent's rosters every game. He'll learn and if he doesn't, he's a less raw and better rebounding version of Stoudemire. Maybe Stoudemire mixed with some Polish Hammer because he'll do a really nice spin move to get inside at the rim but he'll lay it in instead of trying to rip the rim off the backboard.

 

[Superbone]

Ayton shouldn't be worried about respect from the refs right now. He should be learning how to play basketball the right way including on defense.