Ayton’s Blocks

[GatorAZ]

I personally think you have to establish yourself quickly, kind of like prison. Instead you'll get labeled as such early on and its hard to shake that image. Remember its always that first impression you make.

But that's what makes this a crappy league at times, preferential treatment. I don't think being polite is the right way to go about this, we see nice guys in the league treat the refs with respect but never get call to go their way. Who comes to mind is Grant Hill, all the respect in the world from players, coaches and the media but he seemed to get hosed by the refs.

This is true. He’s playing into the exact narrative he had coming into the league. At some point he has to establish himself as an aggressor or nothing is bound to change from the officials POV and more importantly the opposition’s.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Ayton shouldn't be worried about respect from the refs right now. He should be learning how to play basketball the right way including on defense.

That's easy to say and all, but that ignores how important it is that he stay out of foul trouble for this team to be competitive. Foul trouble equals more time on the bench and more minutes of Chandler and Holmes (neither of which are any good).

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think there’s some sensitivity when concerns about his defense are met with offensive stat lines in response. I wasn’t calling you specifically sensitive but I think people are just concerned about the teams terrible start and don’t want to hear anymore negativity than there already is.

And has a guy who was higher on Doncic than most fans I’ve already said on here numerous times that we would not be better with him instead of Ayton. In fact we’d pribably be worse considering the roster makeup.

The Mavs are a better overall team. Last year they lost a bunch of close games. I'm a Doncic fan as well, but Ayton will be a better overall player. I think it's easier to find good ball handlers/passers, than it is to find dominant centers.

 

[Raindog]

The Mavs are a better overall team. Last year they lost a bunch of close games. I'm a Doncic fan as well, but Ayton will be a better overall player. I think it's easier to find good ball handlers/passers, than it is to find dominant centers.

Agree... the Mavericks were (are) a better team. They were actively trying to lose games at the end of last year. The Suns didn't have to try - they were just plain bad and it took no concentrated effort to finish with the worst record.

Doncic has looked decent to start his career. But in spite of the absurd hype, he is not going to singlehandedly change the future of any team he plays on - not by a long shot. That's where the hyperbole on him got way out of hand. He will be a nice complementary player, assuming he stays on track.

Ayton on the other hand, WILL be an elite player and game changer... again, assuming he stays on track to achieving his full potential.

 

[elindholm]

Here's a quote from Ayton about the San Antonio game and how the refs have been treating him.

“I felt like I was getting hooked every time. I was talking to the refs, and I basically got the rookie treatment. They don’t respond or they don’t hear me.”

Ayton said when he finally tried to stop Aldridge's hook, he got called for a foul.

"I just got to put reps in, try to get my respect in the league," Ayton said.

Thank goodness Ayton has more patience than most of this board does. He understands that it will take time to develop both his game and a reputation with the officials. Right now, the league is so crazy about three-point shooting that they probably don't care much about Ayton being able to establish himself as an inside force. Once the long-bombing infatuation burns itself out, which will happen when the fans start getting bored of it, it will be more possible for young players at the power positions to start building their own identities within the league.

 

[GatorAZ]

Agree... the Mavericks were (are) a better team. They were actively trying to lose games at the end of last year. The Suns didn't have to try - they were just plain bad and it took no concentrated effort to finish with the worst record.

Doncic has looked decent to starts his career. But in spite of the absurd hype, he is not going to singlehandedly change the future of any team he plays on - not by a long shot. That's where the hyperbole on him got way out of hand. He will be a nice complementary player, assuming he stays on track.

Ayton on the other hand, WILL be an elite player and game changer... again, assuming he stays on track to achieving his full potential.

You said the Doncic hype was hyperbole then said Ayton WILL be an elite franchise changer 7 games in. Being a franchise changer is more than stats. Karl Anthony-Towns puts up great numbers but he’s also been accused of being soft and doesn’t have much defensive impact. Numbers can be misleading.

 

[Raindog]

You said the Doncic hype was hyperbole then said Ayton WILL be an elite franchise changer 7 games in. Being a franchise changer is more than stats. Karl Anthony-Towns puts up great numbers but he’s also been accused of being soft and doesn’t have much defensive impact. Numbers can be misleading.

I said if he stays on track to achieving his potential. His ceiling is way higher than Doncic's.

 

[SirStefan32]

The thing with Ayton is that he is smart. He doesn't do stupid stuff. It's telling that I can recall two really stupid things he has done so far this year. I can remember the plays with a high level of specificity. Now think about that- he's played seven games and without looking it up, I'd say he is playing over 30 minutes on average. His mistakes are so rare that I can remember them. One time he got the ball by the rim, and did not realize he was wide open so he passed the ball out to one of the other guys. Second one, he made a pass to someone else and the pass was really bad- like 15 feet up in the air. Now contrast that to others- JJ does so many stupid things that they all blend together. Same with others (though to a lesser degree than JJ).

I am not saying he isn't a little too passive- he is. That was my main concern with him before the draft, but I honestly cannot figure out how anybody can be unhappy with Ayton right now. That kid is smart, versatile, patient. I just don't understand how anyone can be unhappy with him. He is a very young big man. What were people expecting? I feel like I had realistic expectations and he has exceeded my expectations twofold at least.

 

[Superbone]

I am extremely happy with Ayton offensively. I just wish he wouldn't let slow guys like Doncic blow past him for an easy layup without even looking like he's interested in contesting.

 

[BC867]

I'm sorry but you can't consistently let the other team waltz past you to the basket and not try to stop them. You think Embiid or Gobert would allow that? Our new star player is far from perfect and has a long way to go on the defensive side of the ball.

My post wasn't about defending. It was specifically about going for blocked shots. Of course he needs to be taught how to defend the post.

 

[1tinsoldier]

yes, we can be happy with Ayton and still be on him about the things he needs to correct (Igor)

i'll admit he's in a tough spot.
i never liked big guys standing still, straight up with their hands in the air on defense (that seemed to become a thing about the time of Tsakalitus). once he does that the player burns him by shooting around him. unfortunately, it did look like as soon as he got more mobile last game he started collecting fouls (that, indeed some vets might not have been called on)

it's up to the coaches to train him how to use his legs first & foremost on D, his hands last and they should follow the ball without moving his body. when he does commit, it's legit for his legs to leave the ground. but if he uses his legs right, his player will pass off instead of shooting.

all the suns players need a defensive expert focusing on their leg work.

-some coaching tips from my couch

 

[Yuma]

Add two more blocks to his total after Toronto.

 

[Superbone]

Add two more blocks to his total after Toronto.

Our announcers kept going on about how it should have been 3 but it was Booker who blocked Leonard's shot from behind in what they thought was Ayton's 2nd block of the night.

 

[JCSunsfan]

When Ayton gets a little angry, he is really effective. I am also convinced that if he get more aggressive overall, he will get more calls. Lazy fouls get called more than aggressive ones.

 

[1tinsoldier]

yes, Ayton's better when his cage is rattled.
normally, he's also a little too unselfish and quick to give up the ball

he seems to be a decent ball-handler for 7'1

i'd like to see him:
* fake a shot and drive when up against a center from mid-range
* back down his defender
* force the double team more often before he dishes

 

[Yuma]

When Ayton gets a little angry, he is really effective. I am also convinced that if he get more aggressive overall, he will get more calls. Lazy fouls get called more than aggressive ones.

That last rebound was get the F out of the way rebound!

 

[sunsfan88]

A couple of things: there are shots not even attempted that will not show up on a stat sheet; ive seen guys go in and think twice about putting up a shot and not even attempt, and I've seen guys miss due to his presence.

They do actually show up on advanced metrics stat sheet.

• Ayton allows a terrible 69.3% FG% on 7.3 attempts per game within 6 feet. The only worse centers are Tyson Chandler at 71.4% and Harry Giles at 80.8%.
  
  
• On the other hand, Richaun Holmes allows a 45% FG% on 2 attempts per game. The only better centers are Boban Marjanovic (41.5%) and Bam Adebayo (41.0%).
  
  - Suns Reddit

Ayton currently is worse at defending the rim (by advanced metrics) than Amare during any of his seasons with the Suns.

Only 12 games in so plenty of time for him to improve and I feel that he will.

 

[95pro]

They do actually show up on advanced metrics stat sheet.



Ayton currently is worse at defending the rim (by advanced metrics) than Amare during any of his seasons with the Suns.

Only 12 games in so plenty of time for him to improve and I feel that he will.

Sounds about right.

 

[slinslin]

defending a rim is a two-way street

Suns perimeter defense is a disaster and often those guys are getting clear path to the basket while Ayton has to make a decision to stay on his man or contest and allow the pass..

I would bet that in man-to-man defensive situations Ayton is not giving up a super high percentage at the rim or overall.

 

[sunsfan88]

defending a rim is a two-way street

Suns perimeter defense is a disaster and often those guys are getting clear path to the basket while Ayton has to make a decision to stay on his man or contest and allow the pass..

I would bet that in man-to-man defensive situations Ayton is not giving up a super high percentage at the rim or overall.

His man to man defense has always been good even at Arizona but he’s simply atrocious at help defense and rim protection which is one of the most important skills that a C needs.

 

[Yuma]

His man to man defense has always been good even at Arizona but he’s simply atrocious at help defense and rim protection which is one of the most important skills that a C needs.

Despite what the Suns say, he should be our PF of the future.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Ayton does have a sound jump shot that should smooth out as he calms his rookie self down.
how about Holmes at center
and Ayton plays at power forward -- in a Carl Malone type role, or Duncan with Robinson
until he good coach can teach him how to play center

 

[Yuma]

Ayton does have a sound jump shot that should smooth out as he calms his rookie self down.
how about Holmes at center
and Ayton plays at power forward -- in a Carl Malone type role, or Duncan with Robinson
until he good coach can teach him how to play center

I really don't think it's a knock on him not playing center. If he can dominate at the PF position then so be it. Go out and get a Center. Look the guy played PF in college. They want him to switch and cover the the tree point line. When do you want your center away from the basket? Either change his defensive role, or change his position!

 

[Hoop Head]

We need a good defensive PF to pair with Ayton. In today's NBA he's not a PF but he might have fallen in that category back when Amare played in the early to mid 2000's. Someone like Ibaka would be ideal but Ibaka himself is due $20 million a year this year and next, plus he's on the wrong side of 30. I don't want to see any more players over 30 brought in here until we can actually start winning without them, unless they sign for the league minimum. If they sign for that much and give little to no effort we can always waive them. I don't mind experienced players but we need to aim for people under 30 rather than over since Ariza, Anderson, Chandler, Crawford, and Dudley have all basically called it a career after joining the Suns. All of them were north of 30. I think it's quite damning that Dudley had the highest motor of any of the vets we've brought in since he had to be in the worst shape of any of them.

 

[slinslin]

Ayton will be a good defender eventually. He is not bad man to man already and the team defense will come eventually.

At Arizona he made a huge leap in the 2nd half of the season in terms of block%.

My gripe with Ayton is that he is too respectful/shy towards NBA veterans which seems weird since he seems very outgoing. Just does not realize that he could dominate NBA veterans already.